Why ... (2)

[Kellyvee]

I was told that God is beyond space and time in the supernatural, where is the supernatural?
God is not imaginary to the people who believe in God. to everyone else God is imaginary.

What?????

Why the What?????
Did you think that even the unbelievers believed in a God? is Allah and all of the other Gods imaginary?

 

[Oncedeceived]

So Christianity really loves science except for the bits that say things didn't happen as Genesis says they did.
Evolution is a no no but the good bits were sent to us by God but only in the last 250 or so years,
before that God left man to fend for himself and die young, usually in agony.

This is a totally false assumption. Christianity loving science...how does a religion love anything. Religion is comprised of the people who subscribe to the same beliefs and tenets of a certain god or gods. Christianity, a religion, has no feelings at all. Christians however, can have a great respect for the scientific endeavors of man or have little respect for it.

Evolution is believed by some to be considered as false, due to the assumptions that evolutionists have made about it. Evolution happens, what is in evidence is that it happens within the species level. I think many Creationists believe that evolution happens, some don't.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Why the What?????
Did you think that even the unbelievers believed in a God? is Allah and all of the other Gods imaginary?

I am sorry, I misread your post. I read it as believers felt that God was imaginary.

 

[Kellyvee]

Why the What?????
Did you think that even the unbelievers believed in a God? is Allah and all of the other Gods imaginary?

I am sorry, I misread your post. I read it as believers felt that God was imaginary.

Do Christians think that Allah and all of the other Gods are imaginary?

 

[Oncedeceived]

What are the 'raw materials'?

Fossils, DNA and so forth.

 

[lasthero]

Fossils, DNA and so forth.

So how do you determine how much information an organism has? If I presented two organisms, could you tell which has more?

 

[lasthero]

That is simply untrue. Without the theory of Punctuated Equilibrium ToE would have failed according to one of its own predictions.

No, it wouldn't. Punk Ek was a refinement of the theory. It added to it, and learned how evolution works in certain circumstances.

 

[Oncedeceived]

You are still not clear on this. And where is the gap that your god is to fit?

You are the one that is unclear on this. Man describes the force by its effect. It is a gap in your naturalistic explained universe. It makes the naturalistic origin of the universe inconsistent.

"Elementary particles" have explanatory power, and scientifically agreed upon meanings. This is not the case for "gods" or "God"

So? That doesn't mean that it is true, just because scientist agree upon a meaning of something doesn't mean that it makes it true. The Christian worldview does have explanatory power which is consistent with what we see in the universe.

Now you want qualified stories of miracles as evidence. You really want to go down that rabbit hole?

I was just curious with what other religious miracles you were referring to.

 

[Oncedeceived]

No, it wouldn't. Punk Ek was a refinement of the theory. It added to it, and learned how evolution works in certain circumstances.

It seems that I am not the only one claiming that it is a theory within a theory:
punctuated equilibrium (p

ngk

ch

-

t

d) The theory that new species evolve suddenly over relatively short periods of time (a few hundred to a thousand years), followed by longer periods in which little genetic change occurs. Punctuated equilibrium is a revision of Darwin's theory that evolution takes place at a slow, constant rate over millions of years. Compare gradualism. See Note at evolution.

 

[Oncedeceived]

So how do you determine how much information an organism has? If I presented two organisms, could you tell which has more?

How does this pertain to what we are discussing?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Do Christians think that Allah and all of the other Gods are imaginary?

Christians know that Allah (which actually means God) is usually linked with Islam. Not all religions can be true, their belief systems preclude that possibility. I can't speak for all Christians, for myself, I think that other religions are distinct in their beliefs and where those beliefs fit with reality are where we can determine whether they are consistent within themselves and with the known universe. I personally have looked into the religions of the world and was lead in that process by God (I believe).

 

[Oncedeceived]

Good. I thought you may have been alluding to the number of people making this claim. The numbers are irrelevant to my point.

It wasn't even your point if I remember correctly.

A dodge (you did not address the question), a straw man (I do not claim God does not exist), and an attempt to shift the burden of evidence (have we not had this conversation about you?), all in one sentence.

The only reason that you do not claim that God does not exist is that you know that is a irrational position. Its a safe little box to hide in.

Again, is there one Christian that can show, in an objective manner, that they have a relationship with something outside of their own imagination?

Objective to them or to someone else? It seems that you are playing a little game here, I know that you know that there is no possible way that a being that is not present in physical form can be proven objectively to those who are not in a relationship with Him themselves.

 

[lasthero]

It seems that I am not the only one claiming that it is a theory within a theory:
punctuated equilibrium (p

ngk

ch

-

t

d) The theory that new species evolve suddenly over relatively short periods of time (a few hundred to a thousand years), followed by longer periods in which little genetic change occurs. Punctuated equilibrium is a revision of Darwin's theory that evolution takes place at a slow, constant rate over millions of years. Compare gradualism. See Note at evolution.

Note that it also calls it a 'revision'. Again, all it did was better explain the theory.

 

[Kellyvee]

Do Christians think that Allah and all of the other Gods are imaginary?

Christians know that Allah (which actually means God) is usually linked with Islam. Not all religions can be true, their belief systems preclude that possibility. I can't speak for all Christians, for myself, I think that other religions are distinct in their beliefs and where those beliefs fit with reality are where we can determine whether they are consistent within themselves and with the known universe. I personally have looked into the religions of the world and was lead in that process by God (I believe).

No religious beliefs fit with reality or the universe that's why they need faith in order to believe them.
You're right to say that not all religions can be true but how do we tell which is and which isn't true? or is it just luck?
does being born in the right country help?

 

[lasthero]

How does this pertain to what we are discussing?

You initially claimed the reason it worked was because of the information in organisms. I'm trying to figure how you detect and quantify this information.

 

[Davian]

You are the one that is unclear on this. Man describes the force by its effect. It is a gap in your naturalistic explained universe. It makes the naturalistic origin of the universe inconsistent.

No, gaps do not make it inconsistent. Inconsistencies make for inconsistency.

Anyway, what if I named the gap "Fred"?

So? That doesn't mean that it is true, just because scientist agree upon a meaning of something doesn't mean that it makes it true.

Scientists - plural. And we are not talking about what it true, but what works. It means that they have terms that they can agree on and work with.

The Christian worldview does have explanatory power which is consistent with what we see in the universe.

How does that work?

Provide an answer to each of the following questions:
1) If gravity is considered to behave like a wave/particle, how fast does it propagate?

2) If gravity was created by a god, and is considered to behave like a wave/particle, how fast does it propagate?

Of what significance is question #2?

Drop the worldview crutch.

I was just curious with what other religious miracles you were referring to.

As I was with you.

 

[Davian]

It wasn't even your point if I remember correctly.

The only reason that you do not claim that God does not exist is that you know that is a irrational position. Its a safe little box to hide in.

I think it would be better to first determine if it is not you yourself that is in the box.

Objective to them or to someone else?

Both, actually. While difficult, it is possible to detect within oneself where self-deception is occurring.

It seems that you are playing a little game here,

I have not left the game in progress.

I know that you know that there is no possible way that a being that is not present in physical form can be proven objectively to those who are not in a relationship with Him themselves.

Whoa - slow down with the presuppositions there.

I did not mention "being", or what form it takes, or where it might be located, or that it be proven objectively. The point is to explore if this an actual relationship, or one that is imagined.

I said, is there one Christian that can show, in an objective manner, that they have a relationship with something outside of their own imagination?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Note that it also calls it a 'revision'. Again, all it did was better explain the theory.

So? You said it wasn't a theory within a theory which it clearly is.

 

[lasthero]

So? You said it wasn't a theory within a theory which it clearly is.

I'll concede that point, but it wasn't the only thing I said, or even the most important.

 

[Oncedeceived]

No religious beliefs fit with reality or the universe that's why they need faith in order to believe them.
You're right to say that not all religions can be true but how do we tell which is and which isn't true? or is it just luck?
does being born in the right country help?

This is completely false. Faith is not required to believe. Faith is probably the least understood element to the unbeliever. One must know that God exists before faith even has a foot hold in the believers life. Faith is the process in which a believer learns to trust and rely on God.

Luck has nothing to do with right or wrong. You are right that countries do affect the belief system. However, the truth of Christianity has been shown to be truth to even those raised in other cultures.