Who's Pushing Your Buttons?

[mkgal1]

When we have tried several times at reasoning, and our *button-pusher* keeps wiggling out of admitting what he/she is doing and shows no sign of progress, we then need to make the resistance the issue. Townsend even gave a script: "I'm feeling pretty helpless right now. Every time I attempt to show you that your (problem) is a problem for me, you either blame me, tell me I'm overreacting, make excuses for it, or get angrier. This isn't being productive for either of us. I'm becoming aware that no matter whether it's anger, or parenting, or money, I can't talk about problems with you in a way that solves them for us. So a lot of our issues don't ever get resolved. I can't imagine that this is pleasant for you either. Can we work on that as a problem?" This makes him part of the solution. If he isn't receptive and isn't touched with your vulnerability, ownership, love, and reality, then continue making the resistance an issue, moving on to actions.

This was from earlier in this thread. I thought your friend was doing something like that. I liked these words & it helped to read them. I had a very similar situation to yours that lasted for years, unfortunately it is a family member. Everyone else is enabling her, telling ME to forgive her, to understand it is "just how she is". Well, they can accept that behavior, but I am not going to. It was affecting our daughter and making our family celebrations something we all dreaded instead of events that we looked forward to. In a case like that, I have learned the hard way, that EVERYONE needs to be in agreement that they aren't going to allow the *difficult* person to escape the natural consequences of their behavior. Each time they are keeping her from experiences the consequences of her behavior, they are telling her she has their permission to do whatever she pleases without worry. I wasn't about to give her that permission.

 

[FaithfulWife]

May I give you an example, just so you can envision what it would be like in a healthy situation?

Let's pretend you and I are friends (well we are! but you know what I mean ). As your friend, I am responsible for my feelings and for choosing my feelings and for expressing my feelings--and you are responsible for your feelings and for choosing your feelings and for expressing your feelings. As your friend, I may care about you and care that you feel X, Y, or Z but ultimately you choose it. My actions may AFFECT your choice--but then again they may not! For example, I've known people who are with angry partners who choose to be happy anyway, and I don't mean "excuse their partners behavior and enable more anger" I mean "I will not allow your angry behavior determine my emotions."

Anyway, so you and I are going along and either on accident or not we get into a bit of a snit. Let's say I say something that offends you. In a controlling relationship you want to MAKE me apologize so you pull all kinds of tricks and manipulations to MAKE me apologize (guilt, blame, deflection, etc.). In a healthy relationship you feel hurt and would like it if I apologize but you REQUEST it and give me the rightful chance to say yes or no. You keep the focus on YOU and how YOU think and feel and you request it.

W.T.F.S.:

When you...
I Think...
I Feel...
So I'm gonna request...

Here's how it might sound: "When you say that <insert offensive statement I made here>, I think that doesn't make sense and doesn't match my experience in life, I feel hurt and a little offended, and so I'm going to request that you apologize so our friendship can be back on track and the hurt resolved."

See how you didn't say, "When you talk like everyone is an idiot and blame me for your own stupid behavior you make me mad and you wreck our friendship..." and then expect me to feel all guilty and figure out that I need to apologize? Nope. You take ownership. They are your own thoughts and feelings but you express them to me. Then you make a request--one equal adult to another--and the ball is in my court. I can decide, "Sure I'd be happy to apologize" and our friendship is mended or I can decide, "I don't think I did anything wrong and I don't want to apologize" in which case our friendship is hurt by an unresolved issue. IT'S MY CHOICE TO MAKE--AND I'M ALLOWED TO EXPERIENCE THE NATURAL CONSEQUENCE OF MY CHOICE!

See? Beautiful isn't it?

 

[hisbloodformysins]

yes, the freedom is great. I feel like I'm developing autonomy

 

[mkgal1]

This morning, I just started reading "The Dance With Anger". I can already tell this is going to be a very helpful book.

One thing I gleaned from it today is the correlation between guilt and anger, and how incompatible they are, but guilt is more acceptable. It is true that I go from anger right to feeling guilty usually. I think that is something that puts us in the position so often of being manipulated. That guilt gets us right off course, and we end up slipping right back into our *rightful place*.

I also see how important it is for us to define for ourselves what we will and what we won't accept. That is the underlying theme in all these books. We can't take a stand if we don't know what we are standing for. In "Who is Pushing Your Buttons", Townsend makes the point that we need to clarify specifically something we would like to focus on. Nothing will get better if we just say, "He makes me so mad all the time." An example of a clear focus would be, "My friend is indirect about the truth". It is important to prioritize and make the most destructive behavior our focus, instead of trying to *work on* many behaviors at once.

In the past, I can see how it was difficult for me to use boundaries because I was allowing others to define what I should/shouldn't allow. I was listening to other's ideas that I was not being a *good Christian* if I wasn't accepting of other's destructive behavior. I was told I was being *self-righteous* and attacking other's and being reminded that I have my faults too. I, of course, do have my faults, but having this mentality only keeps people *stuck* in their behavior. It isn't fair to them, and I don't want our relationship to suffer when it doesn't have to. I want to experience close, honest, growing relationships.

I realize this probably does sound *self-rightous*, or is that just that I slipped into my guilt feeling again?

 

[mkgal1]

May I give you an example, just so you can envision what it would be like in a healthy situation?

Let's pretend you and I are friends (well we are! but you know what I mean ). As your friend, I am responsible for my feelings and for choosing my feelings and for expressing my feelings--and you are responsible for your feelings and for choosing your feelings and for expressing your feelings. As your friend, I may care about you and care that you feel X, Y, or Z but ultimately you choose it. My actions may AFFECT your choice--but then again they may not! For example, I've known people who are with angry partners who choose to be happy anyway, and I don't mean "excuse their partners behavior and enable more anger" I mean "I will not allow your angry behavior determine my emotions."

Anyway, so you and I are going along and either on accident or not we get into a bit of a snit. Let's say I say something that offends you. In a controlling relationship you want to MAKE me apologize so you pull all kinds of tricks and manipulations to MAKE me apologize (guilt, blame, deflection, etc.). In a healthy relationship you feel hurt and would like it if I apologize but you REQUEST it and give me the rightful chance to say yes or no. You keep the focus on YOU and how YOU think and feel and you request it.

W.T.F.S.:

When you...
I Think...
I Feel...
So I'm gonna request...

Here's how it might sound: "When you say that <insert offensive statement I made here>, I think that doesn't make sense and doesn't match my experience in life, I feel hurt and a little offended, and so I'm going to request that you apologize so our friendship can be back on track and the hurt resolved."

See how you didn't say, "When you talk like everyone is an idiot and blame me for your own stupid behavior you make me mad and you wreck our friendship..." and then expect me to feel all guilty and figure out that I need to apologize? Nope. You take ownership. They are your own thoughts and feelings but you express them to me. Then you make a request--one equal adult to another--and the ball is in my court. I can decide, "Sure I'd be happy to apologize" and our friendship is mended or I can decide, "I don't think I did anything wrong and I don't want to apologize" in which case our friendship is hurt by an unresolved issue. IT'S MY CHOICE TO MAKE--AND I'M ALLOWED TO EXPERIENCE THE NATURAL CONSEQUENCE OF MY CHOICE!

See? Beautiful isn't it?

Oh, FaithfulWife, thank you so much for this post. It is so helpful to have an example from start to finish. We do have a right to make requests of others, such as an apology, but it is so important to understand the freedom that person has. It works both ways. We have freedom in our actions as much as others have freedom to make their choices. It sounds so obvious and simple when it's laid out.

Do we struggle so much with this because it is uncommon? I try to compare my relationships that work to my relationships that seem to be a constant struggle and it's difficult. In the relationships that just seem to be close naturally, there just never seems to be conflict. When there is conflict, since we treasure the relationship so much, we have a great incentive to solve the issue quickly and thoroughly. With the difficult relationships, I feel as though I am the only one *caring* or making the effort. One of those relationships is my marriage.

 

[hisbloodformysins]

This morning, I just started reading "The Dance With Anger". I can already tell this is going to be a very helpful book.

One thing I gleaned from it today is the correlation between guilt and anger, and how incompatible they are, but guilt is more acceptable. It is true that I go from anger right to feeling guilty usually. I think that is something that puts us in the position so often of being manipulated. That guilt gets us right off course, and we end up slipping right back into our *rightful place*.

I also see how important it is for us to define for ourselves what we will and what we won't accept. That is the underlying theme in all these books. We can't take a stand if we don't know what we are standing for. In "Who is Pushing Your Buttons", Townsend makes the point that we need to clarify specifically something we would like to focus on. Nothing will get better if we just say, "He makes me so mad all the time." An example of a clear focus would be, "My friend is indirect about the truth". It is important to prioritize and make the most destructive behavior our focus, instead of trying to *work on* many behaviors at once.

In the past, I can see how it was difficult for me to use boundaries because I was allowing others to define what I should/shouldn't allow. I was listening to other's ideas that I was not being a *good Christian* if I wasn't accepting of other's destructive behavior. I was told I was being *self-righteous* and attacking other's and being reminded that I have my faults too. I, of course, do have my faults, but having this mentality only keeps people *stuck* in their behavior. It isn't fair to them, and I don't want our relationship to suffer when it doesn't have to. I want to experience close, honest, growing relationships.

I realize this probably does sound *self-rightous*, or is that just that I slipped into my guilt feeling again?

(I'm so tired right now, just got off the night shift at work... so I'm dissapointed that I can't already articulate everything I want to say well, but I'll give it a try)

I think I need to read that book again and again. I think I might have missed that point about guilt and anger... I can see it definitely as a weakness in my life because I am overly critical of myself.... overly, and because of that I almost ALWAYS feel bad when asserting myself. I think I have to deal with my own self critic more then anything else... other people questioning me and me buckling under that is just a side effect of my deeper problem with being so critical of myself. I guess I'm working on forgiving myself for not being and saying all the perfect things all the time. I tell myself "I tried my best and eventually I'll feel better about how I handle things, but the important thing is that we try".

I can definitely see the grave importance in defining "me" and taking responsibility for "me" by realizing that I need to be respectful of what "me" really is on the issue, and taking responsibility for the fact that it may not sit well with others, but not taking responsibility for how others react or feel about it.

Something else I am personally working on is being responsible for myself in the area of respecting others boundaries, particularly my husband. I must confess that I've been getting very angry with him over very little things and even calling him names when I don't get my way. I know I shouldn't act that way, and tell myself at the time... nevertheless I am having a hard time coping with my feelings. So I ask myself in retrospect what was going on? How should I have handled it differently... and i realize that I should have been more accepting of my husband's no, as inconsiderate and inferiating as it seemed, i need to give him permission in my heart to say no.

 

[hisbloodformysins]

Part of that means taking responsibility for and owning my feelings, and I have to ask myself "what am I feeling?" I conclude "i'm feeling dissapointed, very dissapointed" "I'm feeling a crisis, like there is a limited way of looking at the scenario, and the only view I"m seeing right now is that I'm being burned". I think it might help me in the future if I can take a deep breath, a break and think about the situation in a way that does not present a crisis. But, you see, in doing all this processing I'm not blaming the other person for making me angry, though I dislike the behavior, but I am processing "why" am feeling the way that I am and what "I" can do about it.

I'm continually reminding myself of that scripture to first consider what I'm doing wrong (my paraphrase... actually summing up a few scriptures in one) ... rather then focusing on that speck in someone else's eye, and really evaluating myself. This is part of boundaries I believe. We need to have a good sense of boundaries as to what needs to stay inside our fence and not leak into others, and what needs to stay in other's yards and not leak into ours. Works both ways. Ok, gotta go, may be a couple days before I'm back. Talk to you all later. I get into trouble and out of control when I'm focusing on and blaming other people for my emotions.

HB

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Part of that means taking responsibility for and owning my feelings, and I have to ask myself "what am I feeling?"

Me too.

Details omitted for privacy reasons, but:

Someone just the other day was upset and raging, claiming to have been provoked which made what she said not her fault at all. I pointed out that even when provoked, we are still responsible for our reactions to it. She replied that she is not, since she has a depressive illness.



I have a depressive illness and PTSD. I am *still* responsible for my reactions to whatever provocation I receive.

 

[mkgal1]

Details omitted for privacy reasons, but:

Someone just the other day was upset and raging, claiming to have been provoked which made what she said not her fault at all. I pointed out that even when provoked, we are still responsible for our reactions to it. She replied that she is not, since she has a depressive illness.



I have a depressive illness and PTSD. I am *still* responsible for my reactions to whatever provocation I receive.

That is a situation I have been dealing with. My in-laws have been excusing my SIL's behavior for years, only reinforcing her idea that she can act anyway she pleases with no consequences. She isn't depressed or have any mental illnesses, but she has always been this way. Everyone in the family caters to her desires for fear of her either exploding in a rage or just cutting them out of their life. Her children are all united with her, so if she gets mad, they all follow what she does. This has held the rest of the family hostage, trying to figure out what will make her happy. That is not an example of a healthy relationship and it isn't benefitting anyone involved.

LoveBirdsFlying, what a great attitude you have! It is admirable that you are willing to take responsibilty for your reactions in spite of what you have gone through.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Thank you.

I have an uncle who also has PTSD. He is the perfect media *stereotype* of a Viet Nam veteran--still wears battle fatigues, never stops talking about it, constantly playing old war protest songs, etc. And he'll blame anything he does on having been in Viet Nam. He can lose his temper, yell in someone's face, curse, call them all kinds of ugly names, and then dismiss it with, "I can't help it. I was in the war." He literally feels that he alone knows what it's like to suffer. If I mention something I've been through, he downplays it. "You don't know what a nightmare is."

It's difficult to be sympathetic when someone *demands* it, ya know? "I get to act any old way I want to, and if you get mad at me it means you're unpatriotic and evil. You're supposed to feel sorry for me because of what I went through 40 years ago." Well, I learned long ago that nobody really gives a rat's patoot what I've gone through. If I tick them off, they're going to hold me responsible. And when you get right down to it, they're right. No one can go back in time and erase what happened, either to me or to my uncle. So, just as I shouldn't rage at my husband, because he's not among those who abused me, nobody who has been through a trauma should be allowed to take it out on someone who was not responsible for creating it.

 

[mkgal1]

Part of that means taking responsibility for and owning my feelings, and I have to ask myself "what am I feeling?" I conclude "i'm feeling dissapointed, very dissapointed" "I'm feeling a crisis, like there is a limited way of looking at the scenario, and the only view I"m seeing right now is that I'm being burned". I think it might help me in the future if I can take a deep breath, a break and think about the situation in a way that does not present a crisis. But, you see, in doing all this processing I'm not blaming the other person for making me angry, though I dislike the behavior, but I am processing "why" am feeling the way that I am and what "I" can do about it.

I'm continually reminding myself of that scripture to first consider what I'm doing wrong (my paraphrase... actually summing up a few scriptures in one) ... rather then focusing on that speck in someone else's eye, and really evaluating myself. This is part of boundaries I believe. We need to have a good sense of boundaries as to what needs to stay inside our fence and not leak into others, and what needs to stay in other's yards and not leak into ours. Works both ways. Ok, gotta go, may be a couple days before I'm back. Talk to you all later. I get into trouble and out of control when I'm focusing on and blaming other people for my emotions.

HB

Such a good point, especially analyzing the situation in a way that doesn't present a crisis. We have to be attuned to our emotions, but then kind of step back and decide "why" we are feeling this way and separate out *our* part.

I don't know though, aren't other people sometimes to blame for our emotions? If someone lies to me, isn't that their responsibility? Shouldn't that be their consequence to deal with and not me? They would be responsible for the lack of trust that then occurs between us. I think when we are asking the "why" we need to decide if we are responding by being selfish and irrational, or if there really was a legitimate wrong done. If there was, we need to address it for the good of the relationship with an attitude of being hard on the issue, but gentle on the person.

 

[hisbloodformysins]

Me too.

Details omitted for privacy reasons, but:

Someone just the other day was upset and raging, claiming to have been provoked which made what she said not her fault at all. I pointed out that even when provoked, we are still responsible for our reactions to it. She replied that she is not, since she has a depressive illness.



I have a depressive illness and PTSD. I am *still* responsible for my reactions to whatever provocation I receive.

Yes, I know what you mean.... I come across more people who excuse their behavior then people who take responsibility.

 

[hisbloodformysins]

Thank you.

I have an uncle who also has PTSD. He is the perfect media *stereotype* of a Viet Nam veteran--still wears battle fatigues, never stops talking about it, constantly playing old war protest songs, etc. And he'll blame anything he does on having been in Viet Nam. He can lose his temper, yell in someone's face, curse, call them all kinds of ugly names, and then dismiss it with, "I can't help it. I was in the war." He literally feels that he alone knows what it's like to suffer. If I mention something I've been through, he downplays it. "You don't know what a nightmare is."

It's difficult to be sympathetic when someone *demands* it, ya know? "I get to act any old way I want to, and if you get mad at me it means you're unpatriotic and evil. You're supposed to feel sorry for me because of what I went through 40 years ago." Well, I learned long ago that nobody really gives a rat's patoot what I've gone through. If I tick them off, they're going to hold me responsible. And when you get right down to it, they're right. No one can go back in time and erase what happened, either to me or to my uncle. So, just as I shouldn't rage at my husband, because he's not among those who abused me, nobody who has been through a trauma should be allowed to take it out on someone who was not responsible for creating it.

I encounter this sometimes, my hubby says that I've done something similar (to whatever my complaint is about) in the past, so he is therefore not responsible for his current behavior... or he'll find some other way to blame me for his behavior.

I've heard it before "i'm a victim, so you should understand when I treat you bad" as if being a victim in the past excuses any boundaryless behavior.

 

[hisbloodformysins]

Such a good point, especially analyzing the situation in a way that doesn't present a crisis. We have to be attuned to our emotions, but then kind of step back and decide "why" we are feeling this way and separate out *our* part.

I don't know though, aren't other people sometimes to blame for our emotions? If someone lies to me, isn't that their responsibility? Shouldn't that be their consequence to deal with and not me? They would be responsible for the lack of trust that then occurs between us. I think when we are asking the "why" we need to decide if we are responding by being selfish and irrational, or if there really was a legitimate wrong done. If there was, we need to address it for the good of the relationship with an attitude of being hard on the issue, but gentle on the person.

Well, I understand what you are saying, whenever I had a conflict with someone, my first response would be "what did 'I' do wrong". I generally don't do this anymore... because we have to understand that our complaints are legitament.

The challenge I was talking about here is dealing with my feelings in response to my husband's behavior, but in the face of him refusing to do anything about it... and I was resorting to calling him names because of it.... which isn't ok. Even if others are wrong, we need to let them have their no... or whatever it is... but learn how we can be respectful AND take care of ourselves by maybe setting a limit that won't make me bitter... or finding a way to make myself happy, even though I have a legitament complaint about how my husband is or isn't treating me... and grieving it. Those are the things I have a hard time with. Grieving a loss or dissapointment, an attitude that he has that isn't right or loving... but without the ability or control to change it.... figuring out how I can take care of myself while still communicating my loss, need or dissapointment to my husband... only if he's interested of course. I've learned long ago to not bother for the most part to share my feelings with him, becuase then "I" feel more frustrated and hurt because "he" finds some way to disown any responsibility. For example... he doesn't want to talk? Fine... there's times I get on the computer and come here or play a computer game to entertain myself... sure, I'd rather talk, it's a need I have, but one he's not interested in. But after a while he begins to feel lonely and whines "come in here... watch t.v. with me" my response? Nope, sorry, not interested in watching t.v. "but" he says "don't you love me" "Yes" I say, "I love you, but I am not interested in doing that right now". He has learned over time to take my feelings into consideration more because I do not feel an obligation to do what he wants as well. And he doesn't have to do what I want. We can both have our no's and have our space.

Another example he chooses to rough house with the kids and I just cannot stand the noise and stimulation.... I've yelled, I've asked them to stop, I've explained how it grates on me.... but he laughs it off and continues... Ok, fine... they need to play, I get it... but I need quiet, so I go into our bedroom and watch t.v. I don't do this to control him, I do it to take care of myself. But he doesn't like it when I leave his presence... he'll ignore me while I'm in his presence, but he doesn't like not having my presence... so he sometimes will seek me out... But now when I am getting annoyed and frustrated and start expressing it, he is quicker to be respectful and encourages my son to stop and makes some effort to stop himself. That's his choice, not mine. If he chose to play and rough house.... be loud and thought that as more important, then that's his choice. But I have to take care of my needs as well.

HB

 

[mkgal1]

Oh, I understand. That is such a great attitude. That also minimizes your bitterness and resentment that way, AND most importantly puts the consequences (not in a punitive way, but naturally) back on to your husband. You are meeting your needs, without needing to nag, get angry, then risk having your needs ignored adding to the resentment.

This gets us out of our cycle of resentment, and above all, I feel that is most important. I know for myself, that resentment was a big distraction in my life. It was always on the surface and once I felt that I was about to be taken advantage of again or that someone else besides God or myself was taking over the direction of my life, I would strike. That just proved that I was the irrational, emotionally out-of-balance one. Because of my behavior, my words were discredited. Then I would feel even more resentment because I wasn't being heard when I was trying to express myself. It just went round and round.

It isn't selfish to take care of our own needs. Once we sense that we have control (I hate using that word, because of the negative conotations to it, but I can't think of any other word to use) we can then speak to others in a concise and calm way.