Whodunnit?

Oblio said:

Thanks, but what the RCC says has no bearing on me

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Wrong, the EOC gradually did away with Sabbath keeping because of the religio-political pressure that the Western Roman Church put upon the Eastern Church to discard the Sabbath, and keep only Sunday as Rome did.

Redwolf said:

As I said, you do not keep the Ten Commandments. Especially -- 'thou shalt have no other God before me'.

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PRR

or do you not keep the commandment

Thou shalt not bear false witness ...


?

Wrong, the EOC gradually did away with Sabbath keeping because of the religio-political pressure that the Western Roman Church put upon the Eastern Church to discard the Sabbath, and keep only Sunday as Rome did.

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That's a nice tale, but one without substance.

We await proof that the EOC kept the Judaising legalist Sabbath Law. Christ our Lord was crucified by those of that persuasion.


Try again.

*checking in*

Watchin' reruns.

Oblio said:

That's a nice tale, but one without substance.

We await proof that the EOC kept the Judaising legalist Sabbath Law. Christ our Lord was crucified by those of that persuasion.


Try again.

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You have set up a false argument. Of course they did not keep a legalistic Judaizing law. But you are well aware that the majority of them were assembling on Sunday and the Sabbath as special days.

BrightCandle said:

Additionally, even the EOC, continued to keep the Sabbath for around 500 years after the time of Christ. Why would the EOC do that, if the Sabbath was done away with, and new Sabbath was established right after Jesus died on the cross?

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Where do you pick this 500 years from? The EOC still has services on the Sabbath and holds a special reverence for it. We generally do not fast on the Sabbath for this reason, and even during Lent where we follow a strict rule of fasting, on Saturday and Sunday the fasting is relaxed due to the celebratory nature of those days.

John

Redwolf said:

Explain this so I know what you are saying.
Thank you.

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I don't know,... the text is pretty clear, and I don't see how much more apparent that it can be.

You don't want me to read the plain text, and proposed that I pulled those quotes out of context.

So I posed the following question, that is: where in Scripture does it command me to read sabbath as not meaning sabbath,... and if you are suggesting that I pulled those verses out of context, I asked you to place it into context for me so that I can understand that Holy Scripture does notwant me to read sabbath as meaning sabbath.

Take care, good luck, and most of all...

God Bless!

prodromos said:

Where do you pick this 500 years from? The EOC still has services on the Sabbath and holds a special reverence for it. We generally do not fast on the Sabbath for this reason, and even during Lent where we follow a strict rule of fasting, on Saturday and Sunday the fasting is relaxed due to the celebratory nature of those days.

John

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Let me correct myself, 400 years is a better number, based on the following historians, who lived in EOC regions, during time when the EOC was still keeping the Sabbath. Additionally, the Council of Laodicea exhorted Christendom to stop "Judazing" by keeping the Sabbath of Jews in 364 A.D., which proves that widespread Sabbath keeping existed in Christendom up to that time which was 350+ years past the time of Christ. The following quotes provide further evidence of widespread Sabbath keeping up till the 4th & 5th centuries.

The World
"For although almost all churches throughout The World celebrated the sacred mysteries (the Lord's Supper) on the Sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Allexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, refuse to do this." The footnote which accompanies the foregoing quotation explains the use of the word "Sabbath." It says: "That is, upon the Saturday. It should be observed, that Sunday is never called "the Sabbath' by the ancient Fathers and historians." Socrates, "Ecclestical History," Book 5, chap. 22, p. 289.

Constantinople
"The people of Constantinople, and almost everywhere, assemble together on the Sabbath, as well as on the first day of the week, which custom is never observed at Rome or at Alexandria." Socrates, "Ecclesiastical History," Book 7, chap.19.
The World - Augustine, Bishop Of Hippo (North Africa)
Augustine shows here that the Sabbath was observed in his day "in the greater part of the Christian world," and his testimony in this respect is all the more valuable because he himself was an earnest and consistent Sunday-keeper. See "Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers," 1st Series, Vol.1, pp. 353, 354.

Pope Sylvester (314-335) was the first to order the churches to fast on Saturday, and Pope Innocent (402-417) made it a binding law in the churches that obeyed him, (In order to bring the Sabbath into disfavour.) "Innocentius did ordain the Saturday or Sabbath to be always fasted." Dr. Peter Heylyn, "History of the Sabbath, Part 2, p. 44.

Africa
"Augustine deplored the fact that in two neighbouring churches in Africa one observes the seventh-day Sabbath, another fasted on it." Dr. Peter Heylyn, "The History of the Sabbath." p. 416.

Spain (400 A.D.)
"Ambrose sanctified the seventh day as the Sabbath (as he himself says). Ambrose had great influence in Spain, which was also observing the Saturday Sabbath." Truth Triumphant, p. 68.

Sidonius (Speaking Of King Theodoric Of The Goths, A.D. 454-526)
"It is a fact that it was formerly the custom in the East to keep the Sabbath in the same manner as the Lord's day and to hold sacred assemblies: while on the other hand, the people of the West, contending for the Lord's day have neglected the celebration of the Sabbath." "Apollinaries Sidonli Epistolae," lib.1, 2; Migne, 57.

Redwolf said:

"Where in scripture does it command me to read Sabbath as not meaning Sabbath?"

Sabbath means REST.
The seventh day Sabbath means God RESTED ON THE SEVENTH day. After He finished all His work. Then he made it holy and said we should keep it holy.
That's the best I can do for you

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So you are telling me that you have to interpret things for me?

Why would one have to do that?

I mean,... I've prayed that the Holy Spirit guide me when I read my Bible... so is your Holy Spirit better than mine?

God Bless!

Redwolf said:

St. Paul, I methinks you want something from me I do not have. I don't want to know what you want, but I do know I don't have it.
End of!

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If this is so, then why do you insist,... or should I say persist in threads like these as absolute fact when you cannot provide concrete evidence?

The best one (in your situation) could truthfully do is say: "I think..." or "My thoughts", not "It is" or "It should, and you are wrong".

God Bless!

FaithInTheWord said:

Unless there is a notation in the New Testament that states Sunday as the New Sabbath, then Saturday should be observed as the day of the Sabbath…
(Just my opinion)

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Thanks for your opinion... but, I believe I posted two verses addressing this topic...

The first one was by StPaul, and the second one was from the Prophet Isaiah to show how St Paul parallels Isaiah.

How do you reconcile the difference?

God Bless!