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Hoonbaba

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Hey guys,

What do you think about the following page?

http://aomin.org/YouTell.html

By the way, I'm fully aware that aomin.org is VERY anti-catholic. I've just read some of the material on their website and I don't find their comments (especially James White) to be all too edifying even though he's a protestant. Sadly he considers mass to be blasphemy.

-Jason
 

VOW

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To Jason:

Now that you have some true understanding for Catholicism, and you see the Real Presence for what it is meant to be, not only will you find a LOT of anti-Catholic viewpoints out there, but certain ones will seem to cut out your very heart.


Peace be with you,
~VOW
 
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Chili

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Originally posted by Hoonbaba
Hey guys,

What do you think about the following page?

http://aomin.org/YouTell.html

By the way, I'm fully aware that aomin.org is VERY anti-catholic. I've just read some of the material on their website and I don't find their comments (especially James White) to be all too edifying even though he's a protestant. Sadly he considers mass to be blasphemy.

-Jason

Hello Jason, I did not look at your page but wish to tell you that the daily masses culminate in the final mass or Christ-mass when Christ is born unto us. It is the final mass because this is where religion ends after which time we, as son of man, will find that "son of man has no place to lie his head."

So I really don't care what your friend thinks of the mass and if you find it amusing to wallow in his mire please feel free to do so.
 
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Hoonbaba

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Originally posted by Chili


Hello Jason, I did not look at your page but wish to tell you that the daily masses culminate in the final mass or Christ-mass when Christ is born unto us. It is the final mass because this is where religion ends after which time we, as son of man, will find that "son of man has no place to lie his head."

So I really don't care what your friend thinks of the mass and if you find it amusing to wallow in his mire please feel free to do so.

Hi Chili,

The owner of that website isn't a friend of mine.

Anyway, I se no biblical basis for why you believe there is a 'final mass'. The Bible makes it very clear that the earth will never be destroyed, and that the kingdom of God will reign forever:

Gen 8:20-21, Ps. 78:69; 89:36-37; 93:1; 96:10; 104:5; 119:90; 145:13; 148:4,6; Eccl. 1:4; Isa. 9:7; Dan. 2:44; 4:3,34; 7:14,18,27; Lk. 1:33; Eph. 3:21

-Jason
 
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Chili

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Originally posted by Hoonbaba


Anyway, I se no biblical basis for why you believe there is a 'final mass'. -Jason

The Church as an institution will continue to have masses but for us Catholics religion is a means to the end and not an end in itself. Based on this can the Christ-mass be the final mass.
 
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patriarch

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You Tell Us: Does Rome Provide Infallible Certainty About the Gospel?


The Council of Florence... firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart "into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels" [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; [/unquote]

This is scriptural, because there is only one flock, one body of Christ.

Yet, section 841 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1993) says:

The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

The plan of salvation includes EVERYONE. Whether they cooperate with the plan is a separate issue. Also, in his "On the Church of Christ" Jacques Maritain points out that someone can belong invisibly to the visible Church of Christ.

In a similar way the Pope seemed to be in line with section 841 when he said,

VATICAN CITY, SEP 9, 1998 (VIS) - At today's Wednesday general audience in St. Peter's Square, the Pope spoke on the theme of The Spirit of God and the 'Seeds of Truth' in non-Christian Religions. The 'seeds of truth', said John Paul II, are 'the effect of the Spirit of truth operating outside the visible confines of the Mystical Body', the wind 'which blows where it wills'. The Holy Father explained that in all authentic religious experiences, the most characteristic manifestation is prayer. ... Every true prayer is inspired by the Holy Spirit, Who is mysteriously present in the heart of every person. Through the practice of what is good in their own religious traditions, and following the dictates of their consciences, members of other religions positively respond to God's invitation and receive salvation in Jesus Christ, even though they may not recognize Him as their Savior.

No one can be saved except through Jesus Christ, but not everyone on the face of the earth has even heard of Jesus Christ yet. Yet, I think it says in John 1 that he enlightens every man who comes into the world. They may not know the name of the Holy Spirit who nevertheless obey His guidance. Native Americans were aware of a Great Spirit, for example. No one will be saved except through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

This is not difficult to understand. If you are swimming in the ocean and are overcome by your own weakness and sink beneath the waves, and someone rescues you and drags you to shore, was it necesssary that you know his name, his place of birth? You can find out his name later, meanwhile you have been rescued. So the Spirit of Jesus rescues people out of the world, who will learn His name later.

Yet, scarcely two years later, we encounter a Papal encyclical Dominus Iesus, which reads in part...

Hence, those solutions that propose a salvific action of God beyond the unique mediation of Christ would be contrary to Christian and Catholic faith.

There is only one mediator, Jesus Christ.

But, only a few months later, we get this:

GENERAL AUDIENCE

Wednesday 6 December 2000

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

All who seek God with a sincere heart, including those who do not know Christ and his Church, contribute under the influence of grace to the building of this Kingdom. In the Lord’s prayer we say: "Thy Kingdom come"; may this be the hope that sustains and inspires our Christian life and work.

Again, the Holy Spirit is free to work outside the formal, visible confines of the Catholic Church and in virtue of the shed blood of Jesus Christ to rescue souls. Note the phrase: "Under the influence of grace." That grace can descend on someone even as they are participating in the rites of other religions, as I recently read of someone who was walking round the great black rock at Mecca and was confronted and converted by the Spirit of Jesus.

To sum up:

Christ died for everyone, so all are included in the plan of salvation.
No one is saved apart from the grace of Jesus Christ.
Everyone who is saved by the grace of Jesus Christ belongs visibly or invisibly to the one Church He founded.

Lee
 
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Hoonbaba

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Hi Lee,

Thanks for sharing your comments! :)

I recently read of someone who was walking round the great black rock at Mecca and was confronted and converted by the Spirit of Jesus.

Oh by the way, I also heard of a similar story where Jesus supposedly showed up (in person) in a Muslem mosque, and immediately they feel down and gave their lives to Jesus!

After all, what can you do when the Son of God walks and interrupts your religion?? hehe

I particularly like how Matt 16:18 says the gates of hades will not prevail against the church. In fact Dan 2:44 says the kingdom of God will crush the other kingdoms and that it will endure forever :)

Glory to God!

-Jason
 
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