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Who wrote Genesis 1? God or man?

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jereth

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I think we need to have a serious debate about the authorship of Genesis 1.

I'm exasperated with hearing YECists say: "God told us how he created the world in Genesis 1. He made it very clear -- it took 6 days. Why won't you believe him? Why won't you trust his infallible word? Why do you believe man's fallible science instead? No man was there at creation - only God himself was there. Isn't he is a reliable witness?"

Can YECists please explain what exactly they mean by "God told us"? Have you actually thought this through?

Are you aware of the "Tablet theory"? This is the best attempt that YECist "scholars" have come up with to explain the "divine" authorship of Genesis 1. According to this theory, God wrote down Genesis 1 on a clay tablet and gave it to Adam in the garden of Eden. Adam passed this tablet on to Seth, who passed it on to Enosh.... who passed it on to Lamech, who passed it on to Noah, who took it aboard the ark for a year, then passed it on Shem, who passed it on to.... Abraham, who passed it on to Isaac, who passed it on to Jacob, who took it from Canaan to Egypt, after which it was kept somewhere for about 400 years until Moses got his hands on it. Moses then copied the tablet into the book of Genesis, which he was writing.

Here is AiG's take on it:
"In that case, such [historical] records would certainly have been preserved by being written (probably on clay tablets) and handed down from father to son via the line of Adam-Seth-Noah-Shem-Abraham-Isaac-Jacob, etc.
...
"The most likely explanation is that Adam, Noah, Shem, etc. each wrote an account of the events that occurred either right before or during his lifetime, and Moses, under the infallible inspiration of the Holy Spirit, selected, compiled, and edited these to produce Genesis in its present cohesive form."


The AiG website provides a link to a more detailed essay:
www.trueorigin.org/tablet.asp
Regarding Genesis 1, this essay says:
"In this first tablet [Genesis 1], there’s no author’s name in that closing verse. Who could have personal knowledge of what was written there? Only the Creator Himself. God could have written this with His own fingers (like He wrote in Exodus 31:18). I think it’s just as possible that He orally dictated it to Adam. At that same time He might have been using this as a teaching tool, showing Adam how to write, and maybe this served as Adam’s “practice slate.” Whatever the mode, God was the personal author of that first tablet, the actual creation account. "

Please be honest -- do you really believe this theory? If not, do you have a plausible alternative? Please tell us if you do!

Note: This thread was meant to have an accompanying poll -- but I didn't finish it on time. The poll is now in a separate thread.
 

stumpjumper

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Proselyte said:
I believe that God wrote the Bible using man as His tool. There is nothing in the Bible that disputes that.

There is nothing that really confirms that either... The Bible claims inspiriation (Theopneustos) but does specify the manner of inspiration such as "plenary verbal inspiration"...

In fact, the word Paul uses for inspiration has also been used to denote divine origin of dreams...

If you consider the Bible alone, no external sources or theories, does its Word sustain you or do you find yourself needing more?

The Word of God is the pre-existing Logos that was incarnated and dwelt among us John 1...

Yes, Jesus is more than enough to sustain us and He became flesh not text...
 
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Proselyte

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stumpjumper said:
There is nothing that really confirms that either... The Bible claims inspiriation (Theopneustos) but does specify the manner of inspiration such as "plenary verbal inspiration"...

In fact, the word Paul uses for inspiration has also been used to denote divine origin of dreams...



The Word of God is the pre-existing Logos that was incarnated and dwelt among us John 1...

Yes, Jesus is more than enough to sustain us and He became flesh not text...
Yes of course, Jesus and God. I meant, if we had only the Bible and its participants alone, would that be enough? Sure I'd have questions, but nothing that would shake my faith and cause me to look elsewhere for superceding answers. We can only know so much, for we are not God. Anyway, evolution or creationism is not at the heart of salvation, but the way we treat others of differing viewpoints does reflect the heart. I see way too much animosity towards each other for each side when debating. We are all Christians after all, and it's ok to disagree. I just don't want us reduced to Super Powers in some Origins World War.
 
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stumpjumper

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Proselyte said:
Anyway, evolution or creationism is not at the heart of salvation, but the way we treat others of differing viewpoints does reflect the heart. I see way too much animosity towards each other for each side when debating. We are all Christians after all, and it's ok to disagree. I just don't want us reduced to Super Powers in some Origins World War.

Indeed not... But it is generally young earth creationists that claim that those who believe evolution are not "real" Christians or disbelieve the Bible...

I wonder where they get that idea?

AIG:
"The doctrines of creation and evolution are so strongly divergent that reconciliation is totally impossible. Theistic evolutionists attempt to integrate the two doctrines, however such syncretism reduces the message of the Bible to insignificance. The conclusion is inevitable: There is no support for theistic evolution in the Bible."
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v17/i4/theistic_evolution.asp

Very few TE's would discount the faith and foundation of YEC's beliefs... They just disagree with their conclusions...
 
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chaoschristian

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Proselyte said:
Anyway, evolution or creationism is not at the heart of salvation, but the way we treat others of differing viewpoints does reflect the heart. I see way too much animosity towards each other for each side when debating. We are all Christians after all, and it's ok to disagree. I just don't want us reduced to Super Powers in some Origins World War.

I hold, however, that certain Christians, the ones I call neo-creationists, seek to redefine Christian orthodoxy as a belief in a strict indicative/literal intperpretation of the Genesis creation account which results in a historically and scientifically accurate origins.

Specifically this group does indeed tie creation to salvation through a number of means.

Christians who accept evolutionary theory, for example, are deceived/not true Christians.

This is unfortunate. Honestly, if one wants to hold to a six-day creation that is all well and good with me. However, its when this pov becomes institutionalized into an effort with the intent to force itself onto others that I become - irritated.
 
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Proselyte

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chaoschristian said:
I hold, however, that certain Christians, the ones I call neo-creationists, seek to redefine Christian orthodoxy as a belief in a strict indicative/literal intperpretation of the Genesis creation account which results in a historically and scientifically accurate origins.

Specifically this group does indeed tie creation to salvation through a number of means.

Christians who accept evolutionary theory, for example, are deceived/not true Christians.

This is unfortunate. Honestly, if one wants to hold to a six-day creation that is all well and good with me. However, its when this pov becomes institutionalized into an effort with the intent to force itself onto others that I become - irritated.
I can see your point of course. I wouldn't want anything force-fed to me. Though I support Creationism, it's my choice as Evolution is yours. I am not going to force it on you, as I would like Evolution not forced on me. It is good to hear differing view points in a loving Christian manner though.
 
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rmwilliamsll

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seek to redefine Christian orthodoxy as a belief in a strict indicative/literal interpretation of the Genesis creation account which results in a historically and scientifically accurate origins.

this has got to be one of the best, short, concise summaries of YECism i have seen.
i'm tempted to grab it as a .sig....
again, unable to rep the author.
 
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RightWingGirl

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2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Genesis was written probably written by Moses, but in any case was given by inspiration of God. God did Himself say that the world was created in six days in Exodus 20:11
 
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Proselyte

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RightWingGirl said:
2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Genesis was written probably written by Moses, but in any case was given by inspiration of God. God did Himself say that the world was created in six days in Exodus 20:11
Excellent!
 
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jereth

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RightWingGirl said:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/2Ti/2Ti003.html#16Genesis was written probably written by Moses, but in any case was given by inspiration of God.

What is at issue here is how "inspiration" works. Most Christians would acknowledge that for the majority of the Bible, "inspiration" was an unconscious phenomenon. I.e. the human author was not aware of God's activity as he wrote.

Where YECists and TEs disagree is over Genesis 1. TEs believe that Gen 1 is just the same as any other Scripture -- generated "naturally" from the author's mind, or based on ordinary historical research. YECists must believe that Gen 1 was "dictated", since otherwise no man could know how creation happened.

I think that what you (and others) are trying to do is drive a wedge between the "divine inspiration" of Scripture and its human origin. These are not mutually exclusive alternatives -- I'm sure even you would acknowledge that Paul's letters weren't dictated to him by God.
 
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Roadmap

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I am a YECist and I believe the Bible is very literal in the creation account. I believe God inspired the Word as it was written by men He appointed. In my belief, God is very capable of doing just what the Bible said He did... create the world in 6 days.

But guess what. Am I going to be so arrogant as to say that if a brother or sister in Christ has some interpretations that are different than mine, that they are not Christians or lesser than me? God forbid. I will love them and share with them, and pray that we can learn and grow together.... focused on our Lord Jesus Christ!!!!
 
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Proselyte

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Roadmap said:
I am a YECist and I believe the Bible is very literal in the creation account. I believe God inspired the Word as it was written by men He appointed. In my belief, God is very capable of doing just what the Bible said He did... create the world in 6 days.

But guess what. Am I going to be so arrogant as to say that if a brother or sister in Christ has some interpretations that are different than mine, that they are not Christians or lesser than me? God forbid. I will love them and share with them, and pray that we can learn and grow together.... focused on our Lord Jesus Christ!!!!
That is a great attitude, and I fully support you on it. What is important is how we treat each other, even in the face of differences.
Well said.
 
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