Who then can be saved?

BNR32FAN · Nov 9, 2025

Dan1988 said:
Unlike yourself, I don't pretend to know about the things that God has deliberately hidden. Why are you rejecting those scriptures I showed you, where God Himself confirms that He has hidden these things.

You don't believe what God has said, or you have been deceived by false doctrine to the point where you can't even see your denial of the truth.

Just your typical cop out where you can’t explain passages of scripture that are easily explained because they don’t line up with your theology. They line up with my theology perfectly which is why I have no problem explaining them because unlike you when I come across a passage of scripture that doesn’t line up with my theology I reevaluate my theology so that it does line up with all scripture. You just ignore anything that doesn’t line up and pretend like it doesn’t matter.

BNR32FAN · Nov 9, 2025

Dan1988 said:
Now your ignorance is on full display, first of all Gods Word says that we are saved by faith, but you twist it backwards and say "no God, that's not true, the truth is I am saved by my faith"
But the truth is you don't have faith or anything else, you actually have nothing. Yes that means you have a big fat zero, to contribute towards salvation. You and everyone else is dead in sin, and the only thing dead men can offer is filthy stinking rags.

You need to explain how a dead man as you were/are can conjure up saving faith in your sate of death and total depravity. As totally depraved dead men, none can manufacture, create, conjure up, produce, invent or any other word you care to use to describe a totally depraved, evil, wicked and dead man creating his own saving faith.

See, you won't find a single verse in the bible to support your silly theory that dead men can conjure up saving faith. Please show me one verse.

If you care to know the truth about the matter, you will find that both "GRACE" and "FAITH" are gifts which God gives to His elect only. The rest are left in their condemned sate of death.
Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

How long can you keep denying what Gods Word clearly says.

And again you didn’t explain the passage YOUR FAITH HAS SAVED YOU. You just ignore it and pretend that it doesn’t exist.

BNR32FAN · Nov 9, 2025

Dan1988 said:
Yes Sir, many have or will come to Christ and fall away, but only the elect will remain because they were saved by Christ and not their works. Those who bring their filthy rags to the table will fall away, because they were never of us, for if they were of us they would have remained with us.
We must take into consideration, the fact that Jesus will cast the vast majority of professing Christians into the lake of fire.

Many will come to Him on that day saying Lord, Lord, you know the rest.

What happened to your interpretation of John 6:44? Now you’re saying that people can come to Christ who haven’t been drawn by The Father?

RDKirk · Nov 9, 2025

Dan1988 said:
It sounds like you have taken the word "marvelling" way out of it's intended context. According to your version of the gospel, everything takes God by surprise. So He was shocked by their unwillingness to repent.

The true gospel, describes God as all knowing and nothing takes Him by surprise. So your interpretation of the word, must take that fact into consideration, otherwise it makes no sense.

When Scripture says God “marveled” at disbelief, it does not imply ignorance, because omniscience precludes that. It does three other things: 1) It conveys relational reality, the impact of disbelief on God’s engagement with humanity. 2), It is didactic, helping human readers appreciate the seriousness of belief and unbelief in a narrative or moral context. 4) It displays the irrationality of the human action in the face of the reality of God's power or (particularly when Jesus does the "marveling") it indicates a human action that is greatly different from the norm of human reactions.

For instance, scripture will describe Jesus "marveling" at great faith from someone who would not normally be expected to show such great faith. As a human being observed by the humans who would remember and write of the moment, Jesus would have openly displayed some semblance of "Wow, people, are you seeing this?" that would be recorded as "marveling."

God’s “marveling” is anthropomorphic way of describing divine relational response, not a literal surprise or lack of knowledge.

BNR32FAN · Nov 9, 2025

Dan1988 said:
Man, you have twisted the scriptures there way out of their intended context. The first two you mentioned, are describing those who will be cast into hell. Just because God doesn't cast them into the lake of fire today, doesn't mean that He is winking at their sin, it just means He's fattening that calf for the slaughter, but you probably haven't bothered to study the scripture which reveal this truth.

Then you do the unthinkable and throw Gods elect and the reprobate in the same basket, in your interpretation of 2 Peter 3:9 This verse was spoken to saved people, you know (the elect of God). It was spoken to encourage them to be patient, in waiting for judgement day. They were told that it will come when the last one of Gods elect is added to the Body of Christ, then all hell will break lose.

You’re ignoring important details like for example Romans 2:4-5 specifically says God’s KINDNESS AND PATIENCE IS LEADING THEM TO REPENTANCE. You completely ignored that important piece of information.

BNR32FAN · Nov 9, 2025

RDKirk said:
When Scripture says God “marveled” at disbelief, it does not imply ignorance, because omniscience precludes that. It does three other things: 1) It conveys relational reality, the impact of disbelief on God’s engagement with humanity. 2), It is didactic, helping human readers appreciate the seriousness of belief and unbelief in a narrative or moral context. 4) It displays the irrationality of the human action in the face of the reality of God's power or (particularly when Jesus does the "marveling") it indicates a human action that is greatly different from the norm of human reactions.

For instance, scripture will describe Jesus "marveling" at great faith from someone who would not normally be expected to show such great faith. As a human being observed by the humans who would remember and write of the moment, Jesus would have openly displayed some semblance of "Wow, people, are you seeing this?" that would be recorded as "marveling."

God’s “marveling” is anthropomorphic way of describing divine relational response, not a literal surprise or lack of knowledge.

Amen and Dan knows this, he’s just unwilling to admit it because it doesn’t line up with his theology.

BNR32FAN · Nov 9, 2025

Dan1988 said:
We need to make the distinction between the two types of people in the world. Gods people, the elect can't do anything to obey the gospel unless God gives us the ability to obey.
Likewise, the reprobate can't do anything to obey the gospel, because God does not give them the gift of grace and faith, because it's not His will that they be saved.

But you need to understand that God is not responsible for the evil which the reprobate do. He allows them to do it and it does serve His will because He will show Hi hatred of sin by punishing them with eternal torment in the lake of fire. If they didn't sin, then there would be no way for God to demonstrate His wrath and justice. So yes Gods will will be done, even through the wicked.

You’re basing this on 2 Corinthians 2:14-16 which was written to believers who were not spiritually appraised. They couldn’t understand spiritual things because they were setting their mind on the flesh instead of setting their mind on the Spirit. Paul says this in the next 5 statements. So it doesn’t make any sense at all to say that someone who isn’t spiritually appraised can’t believe the gospel when Paul was addressing people who weren’t spiritually appraised WHO BELIEVED THE GOSPEL.

Dan1988 · Nov 10, 2025

contratodo said:
My full stance is that Ephesians 2:8-9 has been edited. " it is " is an added in phrase, denoted as such with italics in most good Bibles.

For by grace you have been saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves. The Holy Spirit is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast. Because we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works...

Repent and be baptized everyone one of you, for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38

....the Spirit of grace. Hebrews 10:29

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God Romans 10:17

Our ability to choose or think at all also comes from God.

Not by works of righteousness we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us BY the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost, which He shed in us abundantly through Jesus Christ our savior.
Titus 3:5-6

All of these verses are useless trash and foolishness to those whom God did not elect, before He created the world. So only the elect will believe them, when they hear them, the rest will remain in their condemned state. They have no hope of salvation at all.

Dan1988 · Nov 10, 2025

fhansen said:
Your theology is a 500 year old tradition of men. And you don’t know and apparently don’t even wish to know the 2000 year old tradition of God.

I never knew that God is into traditions, do tell me about it. I've never heard it before. This will be good

Dan1988 · Nov 10, 2025

BNR32FAN said:
This is what you always do, you make a claim then don’t actually explain anything. Your responses are about as informative as simply saying “nuh uh”. Why don’t you actually give an explanation for what it means for God to marvel at their unbelief?

Look up the word, in the Oxford Dictionary. Do I need to teach you the meaning of simple English words now. I marvel that you're struggling to understand ordinary words

Dan1988 · Nov 10, 2025

BNR32FAN said:
THEN EXPLAIN THE VERSES. All you do is say “nuh uh” and pretend like you’ve made some sort of theological explanation. EXPLAIN THE VERSES I QUOTED.

I have already explained why your interpretation of those verse doesn't add up and it can only make sense if God contradicts Himself

Dan1988 · Nov 10, 2025

fhansen said:
There is no biblical doctrine of irresistible grace. And no one speaks about “external influence” here, but about internal work, about grace, being resisted.

In fact, there would be no need for the bible, for revelation, for man to know anything, if God's purpose is simply to predetermine everything for him anyway. There's no need for man to experience the law in order to learn of its inability to accomplish righteousness in him, no need to live in a world where good and evil are literally known so that a person might finally learn to embrace the one and hate the other. There's no reason for man to learn anything, so that he may choose, since God's just going to do it all for him.

If you haven't learned about the Bible doctrine of "irresistible grace", then your denominational teacher, leader, priest or whoever taught you theology has obviously failed you.

It's quite sad to see shepherds hiding the truth of the gospel from their flock.

The first thing I would like to tech you is that the Bible doesn't spell everything out for you in elementary terms. Sometime you actually need to connect the dots to see the picture.

Here's a few verses to help you connect the dots.

John 6:44, which states no one can come to Jesus unless the Father draws them, and Ephesians 2:8-9, which says salvation is a gift of God, not by human will. Other key verses include Romans 8:30, which shows that God's calling leads to glorification, and Acts 16:14, where the Lord opens the heart of Lydia to listen to Paul.

Do you really believe that men are more powerful than God????, do you really believe that men can stop God from doing what He wants to do. News flash, that';s exactly what your suggesting here.

Dan1988 · Nov 10, 2025

BNR32FAN said:
Just your typical cop out where you can’t explain passages of scripture that are easily explained because they don’t line up with your theology. They line up with my theology perfectly which is why I have no problem explaining them because unlike you when I come across a passage of scripture that doesn’t line up with my theology I reevaluate my theology so that it does line up with all scripture. You just ignore anything that doesn’t line up and pretend like it doesn’t matter

Dan1988 · Nov 10, 2025

Nice try, but none of that justifies your version of the gospel, it's still woefully deficient

Dan1988 · Nov 10, 2025

BNR32FAN said:
And again you didn’t explain the passage YOUR FAITH HAS SAVED YOU. You just ignore it and pretend that it doesn’t exist.

Wow, you missed the elephant in the room. How does that negate the "saved by grace" gospel.

What problem do you have with my "God given FAITH". Yes it is "MY FAITH" but I didn't conjure it up, by performing some pagan ritual, (as most religious people do).
No my faith was given to me as a gift by God, and God is not an Indian giver, when He gives something He doesn't snatch it back from you when you turn your back, as religious people do.

Dan1988 · Nov 10, 2025

BNR32FAN said:
What happened to your interpretation of John 6:44? Now you’re saying that people can come to Christ who haven’t been drawn by The Father?

Why don't you remove your blinders and look at the surrounding context of the verse before you make silly unbiblical assumptions.
John 6:44 states, "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day"
This verse confirms the doctrine of irresistible grace, it emphasizes that God's drawing is not optional but an effectual work that draws the elect to Christ. This means that the Father chooses whom to draw, and those whom He draws will certainly come to Him and be raised on the last day.

This verse doesn't deal with the reprobates, who followed Jesus around to get a free feed of fishes and loaves.

Dan1988 · Nov 10, 2025

RDKirk said:
When Scripture says God “marveled” at disbelief, it does not imply ignorance, because omniscience precludes that. It does three other things: 1) It conveys relational reality, the impact of disbelief on God’s engagement with humanity. 2), It is didactic, helping human readers appreciate the seriousness of belief and unbelief in a narrative or moral context. 4) It displays the irrationality of the human action in the face of the reality of God's power or (particularly when Jesus does the "marveling") it indicates a human action that is greatly different from the norm of human reactions.

For instance, scripture will describe Jesus "marveling" at great faith from someone who would not normally be expected to show such great faith. As a human being observed by the humans who would remember and write of the moment, Jesus would have openly displayed some semblance of "Wow, people, are you seeing this?" that would be recorded as "marveling."

God’s “marveling” is anthropomorphic way of describing divine relational response, not a literal surprise or lack of knowledge.

The same member tried to challenge Gods Omnipotence, Omniscience and Omnipresence. He claimed that God makes mistakes and changes His mind when He makes mistakes and learns from His mistakes.

He tried to twist the meaning of >> Genesis 6:6 "So the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart".

I tried to reason with him, in an effort to convince him that nothing takes God by surprise and He never needs to change His mind about anything. But it was all to no avail, as he firmly held on to his opinion

Dan1988 · Nov 10, 2025

BNR32FAN said:
You’re ignoring important details like for example Romans 2:4-5 specifically says God’s KINDNESS AND PATIENCE IS LEADING THEM TO REPENTANCE. You completely ignored that important piece of information.

Gods kindness and patience leads people towards repentance, but the reality is that only the elect of God repent, because God gives us His the gifts of His grace and faith. Those who were not elected will never repent, they are just storing up more and more wrath for themselves.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink, if it's not thirsty. Only the elect of God are thirsty for Him

Dan1988 · Nov 10, 2025

BNR32FAN said:
You’re basing this on 2 Corinthians 2:14-16 which was written to believers who were not spiritually appraised. They couldn’t understand spiritual things because they were setting their mind on the flesh instead of setting their mind on the Spirit. Paul says this in the next 5 statements. So it doesn’t make any sense at all to say that someone who isn’t spiritually appraised can’t believe the gospel when Paul was addressing people who weren’t spiritually appraised WHO BELIEVED THE GOSPEL.

No, you are mistaken. You have bundled together, the elect of God with devils. Both believe that God exists and that Jesus died for the elect, but the demons believe and tremble because they don't have saving faith.
They have the same faith as religious people, who have placed their faith in the "saved by works" version of the gospel and not the (saved by grace) gospel of the Lord Jesus.

BNR32FAN · Nov 10, 2025

Dan1988 said:
Look up the word, in the Oxford Dictionary. Do I need to teach you the meaning of simple English words now. I marvel that you're struggling to understand ordinary words

My point was that you never explain what it does mean for God to marvel at their unbelief. All you did was explain what it doesn’t mean.

Who then can be saved?

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