Who really cares what the ECF's had to say?

simonthezealot · Mar 22, 2012

Jase said:
At least Augustine was smart enough to know telling a non Christian Genesis is literal is an embarrassment to Christianity.

You err when you suggest Augustin doesn't take the reading of Genesis literal, he does take it literal but in a spiritual sense.

Going Merry · Mar 22, 2012

Whats a ECF?
Is this another religious random writing?

Gnarwhal · Mar 22, 2012

hl2 said:
Whats a ECF?
Is this another religious random writing?

Early Church Father.

Going Merry · Mar 22, 2012

Bourne said:
Early Church Father.

Okay, like how early?
Cause if they are referring to non apostles then :X

Gnarwhal · Mar 22, 2012

hl2 said:
Okay, like how early?
Cause if they are referring to non apostles then :X

Generally it refers to the men of the church who came immediately after apostles and through the following 3-4 centuries. Saints that helped pave the way for the church, participated in the ecumenical councils, helped develop doctrine with the aid of the Holy Spirit and developed things like the Nicene Creed.

Men whom I personally have a deep appreciation, respect and love for.

simonthezealot · Mar 22, 2012

Which ones and for what reasons?

SolomonVII · Mar 22, 2012

GreekOrthodox said:
Solomon, I know what you mean, but when you look at the really big issues it makes more sense. If I were to say to you that Jesus was only a man but completely blessed by God, wouldnt that set off some alarms?

Muslims and liberal Christians can say that by either rejecting Scripture, or reinterpreting Scripture into something more to their liking.
Take Spong for instance. A poster here used to sit across from him at their church as they avowed to every word of the Nicene Creed.

Post-modernism can make words into anything that they want them to say.

Tzaousios · Mar 22, 2012

hl2 said:
Okay, like how early?
Cause if they are referring to non apostles then :X

What is that supposed to mean?

Tzaousios · Mar 22, 2012

simonthezealot said:
Which ones and for what reasons?

Probably not the same ones you regularly cite, and not for the purposes of historical revisionism and doctrinal anachronism.

Going Merry · Mar 22, 2012

Tzaousios said:
What is that supposed to mean?

It means personally I view their words as less as I do any other extra biblical writing

SolomonVII · Mar 22, 2012

For the most part, ecf's are more important for determining early church history. Their issues are hardly our issues, and our issues are something that they couln't even imagine. They are on occassion useful for clarification on Scriptue and what the apostles taught, but even here they had divergent views. or their ideas were interpoolated so severely over the years by translaters and agendas that they historic testimony that comes down to us is not as reliable as we might like it to be.

Mostly though, their issues have been so resolved by our time that we have growm past that.

simonthezealot · Mar 22, 2012

Tzaousios said:
Probably not the same ones you regularly cite, and not for the purposes of historical revisionism and doctrinal anachronism.

I cite and have read most of them, just curious who you'd hold in esteem?

Tzaousios · Mar 22, 2012

hl2 said:
It means personally I view their words as less as I do any other extra biblical writing

How do you determine that that approach needs to be undertaken?

simonthezealot · Mar 22, 2012

One needs to understand what interpretation is versus revisionism... It's weak to blatantly say one who disagrees practices revisionism.

Tzaousios · Mar 22, 2012

simonthezealot said:
I cite and have read most of them, just curious who you'd hold in esteem?

Well, many, but I particularly enjoy Augustine, Gregory of Nyssa, Dionysios the Areopagite, Maximos the Confessor, and Gregory Palamas. I can imagine that you would label all but Augustine "semi-Pelagian," right?

I have seen you mention Augustine and Clement. Are there others comprising "most of them"?

Gnarwhal · Mar 22, 2012

St. Augustine of Hippo, St. John Chrysostom, Origen, Tertullian, Athanasius of Alexandria, Gregory of Nyssa, Clement of Alexandria.

Tzaousios · Mar 22, 2012

simonthezealot said:
One needs to understand what interpretation is versus revisionism... It's weak to blatantly say one who disagrees practices revisionism.

Perhaps, if that is what you and other enterprising Protestants were actually doing. From what I have seen, the interest in and use of the church fathers extends no farther than attempts to grandfather select ones into a group of proto-Protestants to use in arguments against Catholics.

simonthezealot · Mar 22, 2012

Tzaousios said:
Well, many, but I particularly enjoy Augustine, Gregory of Nyssa, Dionysios the Areopagite, Maximos the Confessor, and Gregory Palamas. I can imagine that you would label all but Augustine "semi-Pelagian," right?

I have seen you mention Augustine and Clement. Are there others comprising "most of them"?

Bourne said:
St. Augustine of Hippo, St. John Chrysostom, Origen, Tertullian, Athanasius of Alexandria, Gregory of Nyssa, Clement of Alexandria.

Love all the writers Bourne listed and would have to double check the grey ones you listed not sure whether i've read or not... I'd venture to say that i could prove that most of these do not hold to the current RCC semi-pelaian view, or at the very least have strong bible christian leanings as opposed to tradition christian leanings.

simonthezealot · Mar 22, 2012

Tzaousios said:
Perhaps, if that is what you and other enterprising Protestants were actually doing. From what I have seen, the interest in and use of the church fathers extends no farther than attempts to grandfather select ones into a group of proto-Protestants to use in arguments against Catholics.

And of course Catholics don't suffer from the Peter syndrome at all LOL...
Come on! goose/gander

Tzaousios · Mar 22, 2012

simonthezealot said:
Love all the writers Bourne listed and would have to double check the grey ones you listed not sure whether i've read or not... I'd venture to say that i could prove that most of these do not hold to the current RCC semi-pelaian view, or at the very least have strong bible christian leanings as opposed to tradition christian leanings.

I would very much like to see if you arrive at this determination with the ones we have listed.

Who really cares what the ECF's had to say?

have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

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have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

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Αυγουστινιανικός Χριστιανός

Αυγουστινιανικός Χριστιανός

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Well-Known Member

have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

Αυγουστινιανικός Χριστιανός

have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

Αυγουστινιανικός Χριστιανός

☩ Broman Catholic ☩

Αυγουστινιανικός Χριστιανός

have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

Αυγουστινιανικός Χριστιανός

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