Who Lied to the Gentiles?

[Lulav]

“O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction,​

the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, ​

Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.” – Jeremiah 16:19​

Lies- 'Sheqer' - deception, disappointment, falsehood
Vanity - 'hebel'- worthless, futile, empty, useless, delusion
Things wherein there is no profit - 'Ya'al ' - not profitable, no gain

“O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction,​

the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say,​

Surely our fathers have inherited deception, unprofitable, delusions. ​

What Gentiles are being spoken of here and who lied, deceived them.

 

[YeshuaFollower]

“O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction,​

the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, ​

Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.” – Jeremiah 16:19​

Lies- 'Sheqer' - deception, disappointment, falsehood
Vanity - 'hebel'- worthless, futile, empty, useless, delusion
Things wherein there is no profit - 'Ya'al ' - not profitable, no gain

“O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction,​

the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say,​

Surely our fathers have inherited deception, unprofitable, delusions. ​

What Gentiles are being spoken of here and who lied, deceived them.

The gentiles refered to here are the nations. the lies, deceptions are idolatry, The bible version i use is quite clear about this so are the commentaries.

Blessings,

Jff

 

[Lulav]

The gentiles refered to here are the nations. the lies, deceptions are idolatry, The bible version i use is quite clear about this so are the commentaries.

Blessings,

Jff

Gentiles, Nations, Goyim, all the same thing, but not what I was asking.

I asked What (Specific) Gentiles are being spoken of here and who lied, deceived them.

Yes there are historical commentaries however we can't always count on them for various reasons such as time and place, bias towards a certain denomination, reliance on what they were taught.....etc.

I was looking for more of a present day insight.

Yes the word hebel can be used in speaking of idols but that covers a lot. Is it obvious idols or something more subtle?

 

[YeshuaFollower]

Gentiles, Nations, Goyim, all the same thing, but not what I was asking.

I asked What (Specific) Gentiles are being spoken of here and who lied, deceived them.

Yes there are historical commentaries however we can't always count on them for various reasons such as time and place, bias towards a certain denomination, reliance on what they were taught.....etc.

I was looking for more of a present day insight.

Yes the word hebel can be used in speaking of idols but that covers a lot. Is it obvious idols or something more subtle?

this prophecy is about the restoration of Israel in the end times, if you believe we are in the end times i will tell you more.

Blessings,

JFF

 

[Lulav]

I was looking for more of a present day insight.

Yes the word hebel can be used in speaking of idols but that covers a lot. Is it obvious idols, or something more subtle?

Idolatry can be anything or writing or teaching that takes you away from God, or from his word, his Torah which leads you away from HIM.

 

[YeshuaFollower]

Idolatry can be anything or writing or teaching that takes you away from God, or from his word, his Torah which leads you away from HIM.

Hello LuLav,
I believe the gentiles or nations mentioned in jeremiah 16:9 are the lost tribes of Israel that were scattered amongst all nations that have not yet returned to the land given to them by GOD.
these lost tribes have become the gentiles, they were assimilated to other cultures and have lost their ways lost their GOD followed other teachings, religions other gods (ex: money) and were deceived. However the lord knows exactly who they are and will gather them again after the second coming of the messiah.
Jer 16:13 Therefore will I cast you out of this land into a land that ye know not, neither ye nor your fathers; and there shall ye serve other gods day and night; where I will not shew you favour.
Jer 16:14 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
Jer 16:15 But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.
Jer 16:16 Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.
Jer 16:17 For mine eyes are upon all their ways: they are not hid from my face, neither is their iniquity hid from mine eyes.

Jer 23:3 And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.
Jer 23:4 And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the LORD.
Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
(This applies to the second coming of Christ, in bold, above)
Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Jer 23:7 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
Jer 23:8 But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.
this, I believe is the second exodus the return of the remnants of the lost tribes back to Israel.
I have received some insights or was warned many many times for many days from the lord in 2017 about the exodus then again with insistance in 2018 about jacob's troubles. we are at the very beginning of these end times events;

Jer 30:2 Thus speaketh the LORD God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book.
Jer 30:3 For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.
Jer 30:4 And these are the words that the LORD spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah.
Jer 30:5 For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.
Jer 30:6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
Jer 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

Jacob's trouble is also linked with prophecy in the book of Daniel.

Blessings,

Jff

 

[Laureate]

The gentiles refered to here are the nations. the lies, deceptions are idolatry, The bible version i use is quite clear about this so are the commentaries.

Blessings,

Jff

Does not Christianity comprise gentile converts who have joined themselves unto the Faith? What does Yeshayahu 28 say about the refuge of lies scheduled to be swept away from the שמן גאי Shamen Goiy [Anointed Valley’s (gentiles)] of the Lost Sheep of Aphrîyem [the House of Ishrael]?

The Mighty One of Adonai [Yeshua] who sweeps away the Lies is not a denomination, nor a body of believers, he is a Crown of Glory.

 

[bèlla]

This is what comes to mind...

The gathering of the nations is foretold in Joel 3 which correlates with the theme of restoration in Jeremiah 16.

For behold, in those days and at that time,
When I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,
I will gather all the nations.

The sentence you questioned (when viewed in its entirety from verses 16 to 19) parallels the verbiage in Obadiah.

The pride of your heart has deceived you, you who live in the clefts of the rock, in your lofty dwelling, who say in your heart, “Who will bring me down to the ground?” Though you soar aloft like the eagle, though your nest is set among the stars, from there I will bring you down, declares the LORD.

Which brings us to the who and there's two considerations. The coalition in Psalm 83 is a likely candidate.

For they conspire with one accord; against you they make a covenant—the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites, Moab and the Hagrites, Gebal and Ammon and Amalek, Philistia with the inhabitants of Tyre;
Asshur also has joined them; they are the strong arm of the children of Lot.

But given the reference to "our fathers" I'd work from Esau's origin and pairings in Genesis and Jubilees and follow the trail through Jasher until Zepho and focus on him to ascertain the Gentiles. Jeremiah is speaking of things to come. Reference The Legend of the Jews for more insight. Many of the stories are also found in Jubilees and Jasher.

The inheritance he notes bespeaks of behavior patterns and ideals perpetuated without question. Joel 3 says:

Since you have taken My silver and My gold, brought My precious treasures to your temples, and sold the sons of Judah and Jerusalem to the Greeks in order to remove them far from their territory.

And Jeremiah 50 states:

All who found them have devoured them, and their enemies have said, ‘We are not guilty, for they have sinned against the LORD, their habitation of righteousness, the LORD, the hope of their fathers.’

That's the mindset we're dealing with. Wikipedia gives an account of Zepho (listed as Zephon the sngel):

In the Hebrew Bible, Zephon (Hebrew: צְפוֹן Ṣāp̄ōn, Tsāfōn; also Zepho) was a son of Eliphaz (Esau's eldest son). According to the book of Genesis, his brothers were Omar, Teman, Gatam, Kenaz and Amalek. He is mentioned in Genesis 36:11.

According to the legend quoted in Jossipon, he was captured by the military forces of Joseph and imprisoned, later serving as a general for Kittim. According to this account, he became a Latin King in Latium which was the area where Rome was to be founded later along the Tiber river. King Zepho son of Eliphaz was called Janus Saturnus by his subjects.

And an entry on Kittim:

Kittim was a settlement in present-day Larnaca on the east coast of Cyprus, known in ancient times as Kition, or (in Latin) Citium. On this basis, the whole island became known as "Kittim" in Hebrew, including the Hebrew Bible. However the name seems to have been employed with some flexibility in Hebrew literature. It was often applied to all the Aegean islands and even to "the W[est] in general, but esp[ecially] the seafaring W[est]".

The expression "isles of Kittim", found in the Book of Jeremiah 2:10 and Ezekiel 27:6, indicates that, some centuries prior to Josephus, this designation had already become a general descriptor for the Mediterranean islands.[3] Sometimes this designation was further extended to apply to Romans, Macedonians or Seleucid Greeks. The Septuagint translates the occurrence of "Kittim" in the Book of Daniel 11:30 as Ῥωμαῖοι ("Romans"). 1 Maccabees 1:1 states that "Alexander the Great the Macedonian" had come from the "land of Kittim".

The mediaeval rabbinic compilation Yosippon contains a detailed account of the Kittim. As the peoples spread out, it says, the Kittim camped in Campania and built a city called "Posomanga", while descendants of Tubal camped in neighboring Tuscanyand built "Sabino", with the Tiber river as their frontier. However, they soon went to war following the rape of the Sabines by the Kittim, who are correlated to the Romans.

This war was ended when the Kittim showed the descendants of Tubal their mutual progeny. They then built cities called Porto, Albano, and Aresah. Later, their territory is occupied by Agnias, King of Carthage, but the Kittim end up appointing Zepho, son of Eliphaz and grandson of Esau, as their king, with the title Janus Saturnus. The first king of Rome, Romulus, is made in this account to be a distant successor of this line. A shorter, more garbled version of this story is also found in the later Sefer haYashar.[10]

Now we're in Carthage. Who are they?

Phoenicians from Tyre (Lebanon) founded Carthage, an ancient city-state in the area that is modern Tunisia. Carthage became a major economic and political power in the Mediterranean fighting over territory in Sicily with the Greeks and Romans. Eventually, Carthage fell to the Romans, but it took three wars. The Romans destroyed Carthage at the end of the Third Punic War, but then rebuilt it as a new Carthage.

Edom and the Gentiles are together. But who are the Phoenicians?

The Bible records that the Phoenicians had a close relationship with the Israelites: Their royalty married each other; they traded with each other; and, significantly, they never went to war with each other. Stern writes, “The Phoenicians were the nearest people to the ancient Israelites in every respect.”

Who were the Phoenicians? Stern identifies the Phoenicians as Canaanites who survived into the first millennium B.C.E.:

The Phoenicians were the late Canaanites of the first millennium B.C.E. (Iron Age through Roman period), descendants of the Canaanites of the second millennium B.C.E. (Middle Bronze Age through Late Bronze Age). “Phoenicians” was the name given to this people by the Greeks, but the Phoenicians continued to refer to themselves as Canaanites or by the names of their principal cities.

During the second millennium B.C.E., the Canaanites controlled Palestine, Transjordan and Syria—from Ugarit down to the Egyptian border—and they developed a rich culture. Around 1200 B.C.E., they were forced out of these countries by the Arameans and the Neo-Hittites in the north, the Israelites and the Sea Peoples (Philistines, Sikils and Sherden, etc.) in the south, and by the Ammonites, Moabites and Edomites in the east. Between about 1200 and 1050 B.C.E., they retained control of a greatly reduced area—the narrow coastal strip of Lebanon between Arwad, Tyre and Akko. Most of the population lived in five main cities: Arwad, Byblos, Berytus, Sidon and Tyre.

Remember Psalm 83?

Edom and the Ishmaelites,
Moab and the Hagrites, Gebal and Ammon and Amalek,
Philistia with the inhabitants of Tyre;
Asshur also has joined them; they are the strong arm of the children of Lot

ASSHUR ăsh’ ər (אַשּׁ֑וּר, meaning uncertain). Name of the son of Shem, borne also by the patron deity, people, and capital city of Assyria. (See Assyria.). The son of Shem (Gen 10:22; 1 Chron 1:17) was considered to be the founder of the Assyrian nation, whose king list names the earliest founders as tent-dwellers in the southern and western deserts (cf. Gen 10:11 KJV). The Assyrians were similarly named (Ezra 4:2; Ezek 27:23; 32:22; Hos 14:3 KJV). The ruins of Asshur (modern Qala’at Sherqat) lie c. 56 m. S of Mosul/Nineveh on the W bank of the Tigris River.

What impact did the Canaanites (Phoenician's) have?

The Phoenician Religion, as in many other ancient cultures, was an inseparable part of everyday life. Gods such as Baal, Astarte, and Melqart had temples built in their name, offerings and sacrifices were regularly made to them, royalty performed as their high priests, and even ships carried their representations.

Influenced by their predecessors and neighbours, the Phoenicians would spread their beliefs around the Mediterranean wherever they traded and established colonies, and their religion would continue to evolve and be perpetuated by their greatest colony of all, Carthage.

There's your answer in my opinion. Two groups equally impacting others and becoming one down the road. If the root is bad the seed won't go unscathed.

God bless.

~bella