Who is THE RESTRAINER

[Revealing Times]

While I agree with your initial views on a seemingly Pre-Wrath Rapture, and that the "man of sin" is a man yet to be revealed, I can't say I agree with your views on who or what The Restrainer is.

The Holy Spirit and the church are probably the majority opinion out there, especially among Christians that believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture. The view that the Holy Spirit inhabiting the church is what is holding back Satan and his Antichrist; and whenever the church is raptured away, the Holy Spirit goes with them, and this removal of the church allows Satan to set up his dominion on this world.

You made a WRONG TURN on Park Ave. Now you are on Butter & Egg Drive.

The Holy Spirit does not leave the earth, it just reverts back to the situation it was in before the Church "MULTIPLIED" remember, God says 1 can chase 1000 and 2 can chase 10,000 {or something to that effect, SMILE}. So before the Holy Spirit fell on mankind via Jesus' blood men had to go to Jerusalem and offer a Sacrifice, only a few men like Elijah/Jeremiah/Ezekiel/David ever got close to God, after the Pentecost the Works of the Holy Spirit EXPLODED in the Churches operations, men learned how to operate in the Spirit.

After the Rapture of the Church the Holy Spirit will still be on earth just like hes always been, but his "VESSEL HE OPERATES IN" will have been taken away !! Its the Holy Spirit WORKING through the Church that blocks the Beast from going forth. Once the Church is taken to Heaven, the Beast will once again form a Worldly Kingdom of Blasphemy.

 

[Revealing Times]

Problem #1 / Contradictions
One problem with this view that has the Holy Spirit-filled church as the Restrainer is that it seems to have the order of events reversed. According to 2 Thess 2:1, we are gathered to Christ after the Antichrist is revealed. So how can the Holy Spirit within the church hold back the "man of sin" entering the world if the "man of sin" is already in the world? It seems there is a scriptural problem for Christians that hold this view.

That's just not the case at all, its a bad reading of the text in the Olde English it was written in, where some people have a hard time understanding the text. Its speaking of BOTH the Church Departing AND the Man of Sin being REVEALED before the Day of the Lord's Wrath FALL ON MEN. {Its the Wrath of God that is the Subject the Thessalonians feared}.

2 Thess. 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away{DEPARTURE OF THE CHURCH} first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

So let me break this down in modern English.

The word for FALLING AWAY means Departure and what is Departing ? The first verse tells us, Jesus will come and Gather his Church so We beseech you by the coming of Jesus and the gathering unto him. To BESEECH means to ASK URGENTLY !! So what was Paul asking them in such an urgent tone ? Well the passage tells us in verse 2.

We ask you urgently that you allow NO MAN to DECEIVE you by Preaching {Word} by a Letter that claims this is what we have been saying, nor by any Spirit [Not of God of course, a lying Spirit or Demon]. BECAUSE THAT DAY.......The Day of the Lord/Christ [God's Wrath], shall not come until the Church DEPARTS.........AND.........The Anti-Christ is REVEALED as the Man of Sin/Beast.

The Anti-Christ is the First Four Seals, the White Horse who Conquers, the Red Horse that takes Peace away, the Black Horse that brings Famine and the Pale Green Horse that brings Death, Sickness and the Grave ALL FOUR over a 42 Months period of time.

So the Rapture happens........AND the Anti-Christ is RELEASED to go Forth Conquering, Killing, Stealing etc. etc. and THEN the Day of the Lord FALLS ON MEN at the 6th Seal.

The 6th Seal is opened after the first 5 Seals of course, even though its on the same day.

So the Church Departs, the Anti-Christ is REVEALED and then the DOTL comes !!
=====================================================

The Holy Spirit goes NOWHERE, Question #2 is thus not relevant.

 

[Douggg]

The Holy Spirit and the church are probably the majority opinion out there, especially among Christians that believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture. The view that the Holy Spirit inhabiting the church is what is holding back Satan and his Antichrist; and whenever the church is raptured away, the Holy Spirit goes with them, and this removal of the church allows Satan to set up his dominion on this world.

Abraxos, I am not saying that the Holy Spirit is taken out of the world because of the rapture. No more than the Holy Spirit is taken out of the world whenever a Christian dies.

Jesus is the head of the church. The church is the body of Christ. Jesus is the one who keeps the Antichrist from doing the act until after the church, Jesus's body, figuratively, is taken out of the world.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.


Michael has power - but he acts under orders from Jesus. And it is not Michael's role to control the Antichrist.

Michael's power is on display when he will go to war with Satan, another angel, to cast Satan and his angels from the second heaven down to earth, which we can know because it specifically names Michael in Revelation 12:7-9. Michael is not specifically named in 2Thessalonians2.

Michael will be acting on orders from God when Michael forces Satan down to the earth, when Michael does so. In Ezekiel 28, in God's condemnation of Satan...

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

 

[Douggg]

So the Church Departs, the Anti-Christ is REVEALED and then the DOTL comes !!

The church departs - then the Antichrist is revealed to be the man of sin - triggering the beginning of the Day of the Lord.

The person will have been the Antichrist, the King of Israel, unapproved by God, for over 3 years before he commits the act. The act does not reveal the person as the Antichrist, but the act reveals the already Antichrist as the man of sin - not the thought-to-be messiah that the Jews will have embraced him as.

When the person is anointed the King of Israel, that will be the proof positive in concrete that the person is the Antichrist.

Before then, it can be determined who the person is by him emerging in Europe, among the ten leaders of the Executive branch of the EU. And the person being a Jew and having a determined look about him. We are getting close to that time, as brexit plays out, imo.

little horn>prince who shall come>Antichrist>revealed man of sin> beast

The rapture may happen pre-70th week. Or it may not. But it has to happen before the Antichrist commits the 2Thessalonians2:4 act, which triggers the beginning of the Day of the Lord..

 

[Bible Highlighter]

In 2 Thessalonians, and what is the nature of the son of perdition who is being withheld? Is it a flesh and blood man - this Man of Sin?

I believe the "he" (the restrainer) is the body of Christ (the church). For when the church is taken away "by our gathering together unto him," (verse 1 - 2 Thessalonians 2:1), then those on the earth will see the falling away of many believers (unlike at any other point in history), and they will see the antichrist show himself in the temple and declare himself to be God. For Jesus says,

"...upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Matthew 16:18).

The gates of hell will not prevail against the church because they will be taken out of the way. The whole reason these Thessalonian believers are in a panic attack ("shaken in mind" verse 2) is because they think they missed out on the "by our gathering unto him" in verse 1 (i.e. the Pre-Trib Rapture or the Mid Trib Gathering up of the saints by angels). So Paul is reassuring them that they did not miss out on the Rapture. If they did, they would be seeing a great apostasy within the church, and they would be seeing the antichrist in the temple.

Note:

How can believers fall away later after the Rapture? They were believers who missed out on the Rapture. No doubt, many of them will feel betrayed by God and so they will fall away from the faith.

 

[Dave L]

Hi Tra, welcome to the forum.

The title of your thread asks who is the restrainer?

The restrainer is the body of Christ, the church, in which the Holy Spirit works. In verse 6, it is actually "what" with-holdeth, not who. But let us not argue over that point. The what is that as long as the rapture has not happened, 2Thessalonians2:4 will not happen.


The son of perdition will be a man, who's action in 2Thessalonians2:4 triggers the beginning of the Day of the Lord, during which time the wrath of God will be poured out on the earth.

In 1Thessalonians5, concerning the beginning of the Day of the Lord as like a thief coming in the night, in verses 9-11, which are rapture verses, indicates that the church will be taken out of the way before the Antichrist commits his act.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

What is not known is how far before the 2Thessalonians2:4 act that the rapture will take place. Therefore we should take the position of watching and expecting in Luke 21:34-36, to avoid being caught unawares like them in darkness.

Not one shred of scripture supports this.

 

[Dave L]

In 2 Thessalonians, and what is the nature of the son of perdition who is being withheld? Is it a flesh and blood man - this Man of Sin?

It's not the Church. Not one shred of scripture supports a pre-trib rapture. Not one.

 

[Douggg]

Not one shred of scripture supports this.

Dave, you have a habit of making useless one liners. Address the topic of the thread and explain who the restrainer is, and who is to be taken out of the way, and include some scriptures to support your explanation.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away{DEPARTURE OF THE CHURCH} first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

We can see from the following that the departure is not from the earth, but from the faith.

Strong's Concordance
apostasia: defection, revolt
Original Word: ἀποστασία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apostasia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-os-tas-ee'-ah)
Definition: defection, revolt
Usage: defection, apostasy, revolt.
HELPS Word-studies
646 apostasía (from 868 /aphístēmi, "leave, depart," which is derived from 575 /apó, "away from" and 2476 /histémi, "stand") – properly, departure (implying desertion); apostasy – literally, "a leaving, from a previous standing."

1 Tim 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

 

[Dave L]

Dave, you have a habit of making useless one liners. Address the topic of the thread and explain who the restrainer is, and who is to be taken out of the way, and include some scriptures to support your explanation.

The restrainer is not the church because there is no rapture before the last day. Not one shred of scripture proves a pre-trib rapture or you would provide it. Having failed to do so for as long as we've had exchanges.

 

[Douggg]

The restrainer is not the church because there is no rapture before the last day. Not one shred of scripture proves a pre-trib rapture or you would provide it. Having failed to do so for as long as we've had exchanges.

Dave, you inform everyone who you think the restrainer is, and who will be taken out of the way. Include scripture, to support your view.

 

[Dave L]

Dave, you inform everyone who you think the restrainer is, and who will be taken out of the way. Include scripture, to support your view.

There is no direct support saying what the restrainer is. But it certainly is not the Church. Until you can provide direct support for a "pre-trib rapture".

 

[Douggg]

There is no direct support saying what the restrainer is. But it certainly is not the Church. Until you can provide direct support for a "pre-trib rapture".

How about who is taken out of the way? Who, in your view is that referring to? Use scripture to support your view.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

 

[Dave L]

How about who is taken out of the way? Who, in your view is that referring to? Use scripture to support your view.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

We have no direct ID on the restrainer. But it certainly is not a pre-trib rapture that has no direct support either.

 

[Douggg]

We have no direct ID on the restrainer. But it certainly is not a pre-trib rapture that has no direct support either.

Read my question again Dave, I am asking who the "he" is who will be taken out of the way, not who the restrainer is.

How about who the he is who will taken out of the way? Who, in your view is that referring to? Use scripture to support your view.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

 

[Dave L]

Read my question again Dave, I am asking who the "he" is who will be taken out of the way, not who the restrainer is.

How about who the he is who will taken out of the way? Who, in your view is that referring to? Use scripture to support your view.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

They are the same he = restrainer.

 

[Douggg]

They are the same he = restrainer.

We have no direct ID on the restrainer. But it certainly is not a pre-trib rapture that has no direct support either.

No-one is saying that the pre-trib rapture is the restrainer. I don't why you would be saying that.

Does Jesus have any say so of when the person commits the 2Thessalonians2:4 act?

Is the church the body of Christ ? Who is the head of the church?

 

[Dave L]

No-one is saying that the pre-trib rapture is the restrainer. I don't why you would be saying that.

Does Jesus have any say so of when the person commits the 2Thessalonians2:4 act?

Is the church the body of Christ ? Who is the head of the church?

You are saying the rapture takes the church, who supposedly restrains by getting killed by the thousands and hunted down like animals throughout history is taken out of the way.

 

[Douggg]

You are saying the rapture takes the church, who supposedly restrains by getting killed by the thousands and hunted down like animals throughout history is taken out of the way.

Based on scripture. I am saying that the church is the body of Christ. Christ the head of the church. All power in heaven and in the earth has been given to Jesus, including controlling at what point the Antichrist goes into the temple and commits the act.

Before that happens, Jesus takes the church, figuratively his body, out of the world. Because Christians are not appointed to the time of God's wrath, but to obtain salvation.

1Thessalon 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

 

[Dave L]

Based on scripture. I am saying that the church is the body of Christ. Christ the head of the church. All power in heaven and in the earth has been given to Jesus, including controlling at what point the Antichrist goes into the temple and commits the act.

Before that happens, Jesus takes the church, figuratively his body, out of the world. Because Christians are not appointed to the time of God's wrath, but to obtains salvation.

1Thessalon 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

I think many are unwilling to suffer for Christ and buy into the "rapture" theory for this reason.