Who is the Bride of Christ? (Hint: It's not the Church)

Marilyn C · May 27, 2019

ewq1938 said:
The church.

Hi ewq,

Now I realise you have been taught this, but I have not, so let`s have a good look at this doctrine.
Firstly, I want to be very frank and say, "When you are speaking to an unsaved man, would you tell him, "Come to Jesus and be His bride," ? The man would think you are talking homosexuality - a man being another man`s bride. That is ridiculous, even spiritually speaking!

So let`s look at the scriptures and see if they really are doctrinal.

Ephesians In the first few chapters of Ephesians Paul is teaching that about the Body of Christ, and that it is the new MAN. This is all doctrinal, over 4 chapters. Then when Paul comes to ch. 5 we see that he is talking of practical things - for children for parents, and he exhorts the husbands to love their wives as their own bodies as Christ loves His own BODY. nothing to do with Christ marrying men and women.

2 Corinthians 11: 2. Here the Apostle Paul is telling HIS disciples that he wants to present them himself to the Lord as pure. Paul will NOT present us to the Lord for the Lord Himself said that He will present us to Himself. (Jude 24)

Romans 7: 4 The correct word is `gamed,` (Gk) meaning `might become,` (not married).

Rev. 21: 2 The word `Bride` is a symbol of the glory of God of the city. The Lord does NOT marry a city or the people, it is but a symbol of glory.

None of these scriptures are doctrinal.

Distinction in callings - Body & Bride.

BODY - The revelation of the Body of Christ, the Church was not made known in other ages and is only revealed unto His Holy Apostles and Prophets. (Eph. 3: 5) (made up of Jews and Gentiles)

BRIDE - The Bride was known to John the Baptist, (John 3: 29) and was depicted in Old Testament types, eg Song of Solomon, Rebekah as Bride for Isaac - only allowed from own kindred. Gen. 24)

Marilyn.

ewq1938 · May 27, 2019

Marilyn C said:
Hi ewq,

Now I realise you have been taught this, but I have not, so let`s have a good look at this doctrine.

How about we discuss the scriptures that show the bride of Christ is the church ie: Christians? Seems to me that is the best place to start.

Marilyn C · May 27, 2019

ewq1938 said:
How about we discuss the scriptures that show the bride of Christ is the church ie: Christians? Seems to me that is the best place to start.

Hi ewq,

I do not see any scripture saying that the Church is the bride of Christ. Perhaps do one scripture at a time so we can work through what you are thinking.

regards, Marilyn.

ewq1938 · May 27, 2019

Marilyn C said:
Hi ewq,

I do not see any scripture saying that the Church is the bride of Christ. Perhaps do one scripture at a time so we can work through what you are thinking.

regards, Marilyn.

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Here we are told plainly that the example of a man and his wife being of one flesh is about Christ and the church.

nolidad · May 27, 2019

ThatCanadianDude_88 said:
Let's let the Scriptures speak for themselves, you are adding in your own meaning to these passages.

The bride is not in view in the parable of the wedding feast, and we the Church are clearly among the invited guests in attendance. This is why it speaks of guests that have proper wedding garments and those who do not. The bridegroom does not marry the invited guests nor does he marry his attendants, he marries the bride.

Christ has the kingdom spiritually but the day of consummation has not yet arrived when the literal kingdom is fulfilled. This is what Jesus spoke about to His disciples, drinking of the vine "in my Father's kingdom", when He will sit on His glorious throne "in the regeneration". Biblically speaking, this happens when Christ is revealed in glory, at His Second Coming. That is also why in Revelations the marriage supper of the Lamb is announced just prior to His Second coming. It's the consummation, when he receives His inheritance and we with Him. Trumpet 7 in the book of Revelations answers this point directly.

The parable of the ten virgins is just that, a parable. There is a limited amount of literal truth that can be derived from rabbinical parables. This has nothing to do with the bride of Christ.

For the third time, I am not saying Luke 19 is about the bride of Christ.

The following two passages are more than clear in answering the question, and I mentioned these in the OP. I am going to have to refrain from responding if all that is going to be done is side step what Scripture clearly says.

Revelation 19:7-8 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.” It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

How could the saints be the bride if the righteous acts of the saints are what clothe the bride? You cannot accept the "Church is the Bride" view unless you throw out this critical distinction and break Scripture.

Revelation 21:2 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.

ThatCanadianDude_88 said:
How could the saints be the bride if the righteous acts of the saints are what clothe the bride? You cannot accept the "Church is the Bride" view unless you throw out this critical distinction and break Scripture.

Because they are! You are taking as literal a passage that is metaphoric. Just like when we say someone is "clothed with glory8 and honor".

And if you think the new Jerusalem is the bridse you are wrong again !

The passage has that little word "as" which lets us know that the beauty of the city is like the beauty of a bride on her wedding day!

If people cannot understand basic english usage of language- how can they hope to understand teh word of God????

Marilyn C · May 27, 2019

ewq1938 said:
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Here we are told plainly that the example of a man and his wife being of one flesh is about Christ and the church.

Hi ewq,

This passage is NOT doctrinal, but exhortational & illustrative. It is a metaphor, regarding devotion and affection, definitely NOT marriage. As Christ loved HIS BODY, the Church, so husbands ought to love THEIR BODY, (ie wife).

Marilyn.

ewq1938 · May 27, 2019

Marilyn C said:
Hi ewq,

This passage is NOT doctrinal

Yes it is.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Eph 5:23-32 proves the bride of Christ is the church.

Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

As Christ loved HIS BODY, the Church, so husbands ought to love THEIR BODY, (ie wife).

You are only disproving your own position by saying this since even here we see the church is Christ's wife.

Marilyn C · May 27, 2019

ewq1938 said:
Yes it is.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Eph 5:23-32 proves the bride of Christ is the church.

Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

You are only disproving your own position by saying this since even here we see the church is Christ's wife.

Hi ewq,

`....for instruction in righteousness,` which is what the Apostle Paul is doing there as regards husbands.

`Christ and His Church,`(Eph. 5: 32)....`which is His BODY,` (Eph. 1: 23)

Christ is the head of the Body. He is masculine and so is the Body. It does NOT change gender from the beginning of Ephesians till the end. We are the NEW MAN.

Note you are saying `bride` then change to `wife.` That happens only with Israel.

Marilyn.

ewq1938 · May 27, 2019

Marilyn C said:
Hi ewq,

`....for instruction in righteousness,` which is what the Apostle Paul is doing there as regards husbands.

`Christ and His Church,`(Eph. 5: 32)....`which is His BODY,` (Eph. 1: 23)

Christ is the head of the Body. He is masculine and so is the Body. It does NOT change gender from the beginning of Ephesians till the end. We are the NEW MAN.

Note you are saying `bride` then change to `wife.` That happens only with Israel.

Marilyn.

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

ewq1938 · May 27, 2019

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God

Here again it is Christians that will marry Christ who was raised from the dead.

Marilyn C · May 27, 2019

ewq1938 said:
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

`...And He put all things under His feet and gave Him to be head over all things to the CHURCH WHICH IS HIS BODY. ` (Eph. `: 22 & 23)

The Body of Christ does NOT change gender!!!!

Marilyn.

Marilyn C · May 27, 2019

ewq1938 said:
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God

Here again it is Christians that will marry Christ who was raised from the dead.

Romans 7: 4 The correct word is `gamed,` (Gk) meaning `might become,` (not married).

ewq1938 · May 27, 2019

Marilyn C said:
Romans 7: 4 The correct word is `gamed,` (Gk) meaning `might become,` (not married).

It's still about being married as it is in verse 3 when talking about a man and a wife being married. It is translated properly as "married".

Marilyn C · May 27, 2019

ewq1938 said:
It's still about being married as it is in verse 3 when talking about a man and a wife being married. It is translated properly as "married".

Hi ewq,

The word `marry` in Greek is `gameo,` whereas the word in Rom. 7: 4 is the Greek word `ginomai,` meaning to cause to be, to become, and a whole host of other related meanings.

Paul is talking about the law & us being dead to it. He is not developing a doctrine of the New Man now becoming a female.

`Therefore, my brethren, you also became dead to the law through the BODY of Christ, that you MAY BECOME JOINED to another, even to Him who was raised from the dead,..` (Rom. 7: 4)

We are joined to the head and are part of the NEW MAN, NOT the NEW WOMAN.

Marilyn.

ewq1938 · May 27, 2019

Marilyn C said:
Hi ewq,

The word `marry` in Greek is `gameo,` whereas the word in Rom. 7: 4 is the Greek word `ginomai,` meaning to cause to be, to become, and a whole host of other related meanings.

Including to be married. As I said, Greek scholars have translated the word properly as married in these passages.

So I have provided two passages that prove the bride of Christ is indeed the church.

Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married/ginomai to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married/ginomai to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married/ginomai to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

mark kennedy · May 27, 2019

ThatCanadianDude_88 said:
I know this may be the popular view, but is it the Biblical view?

We often rush to Ephesians 5:25, but where does Paul in that chapter ever say that the Church is the Bride of Christ? He tells husbands to love their wives "just as" Christ loves the Church. It is an expression meant to typify the kind of love husbands ought to have for their wives, which is the greatest kind of love. This has nothing to do with prophecy, it's meant to be instructional.

So who is the Bride of Christ? You'll discover that not only is the "Church" view at odds with Scripture, but it will also cause you to completely miss just how powerful and glorious this particular prophecy actually is.

Matthew 9:15 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
And Jesus said to them, “The attendants of the bridegroom cannot mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them, can they? But the days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast.

Notice the clear reference to the bridegroom. In speaking of his disciples, what is the word Jesus uses? Attendants. This harkens back to what John said of the Messiah.

John 3:29 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
He who has the bride is the bridegroom; but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice. So this joy of mine has been made full.

Remember what Jesus said to His disciples during those final few intimate moments He spent with them.

John 15:13-15 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. You are My friends if you do what I command you. No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you.

Now let's move to Revelations.

Revelation 19:7-8 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.” It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

How could the saints be the bride if the righteous acts of the saints are what clothe the bride? You cannot accept the "Church is the Bride" view unless you throw out this critical distinction and break Scripture.

The righteous acts of the Church are what clothe the bride. So who is the bride?

Revelation 21:2 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.

What does this all mean?

Psalm 2:6-8 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
“But as for Me, I have installed My King
Upon Zion, My holy mountain.”

“I will surely tell of the decree of the Lord:
He said to Me, ‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
‘Ask of Me, and I will surely give the nations as Your inheritance,
And the very ends of the earth as Your possession.

John 3:35 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand.

Matthew 25:31 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
“But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.

It is not the consummation of Christ and His Church that is in view, although this is an incredibly glorious event.

What is in view is the consummation of Christ and His kingdom. It's all about the eternal Kingship of the Lord Jesus. This is the time when the Father gives the Son His inheritance.

Doesn't that completely shift how you view things?

What the Bible does say is that we are co-heirs with Christ.

Romans 8:17 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
...and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

The New Jerusalem was created for his church:

For the Lord our God
the Almighty reigns.
Let us rejoice and exult
and give him the glory,
for the marriage of the Lamb has come,
and his Bride has made herself ready;

it was granted her to clothe herself with fine linen, bright and pure”— for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints. (Rev, 19:6-8)

Yes, the Bride of Christ is the church, cities don't do righteous deeds, people do.

Grace and peace,
Mark

Marilyn C · May 28, 2019

ewq1938 said:
Including to be married. As I said, Greek scholars have translated the word properly as married in these passages.

So I have provided two passages that prove the bride of Christ is indeed the church.

Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married/ginomai to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married/ginomai to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married/ginomai to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Hi ewq,

The Apostle Paul is not building a doctrine that we are the Bride of Christ. He is talking about not being joined to the Law. `Ginomai` the Greek word for, may become joined, is the meaning there. To have it mean `married,` you would have to prove that we marry the Lord when we are saved.

That would mean that men are married to the Lord and that is homosexuality. And a sin which God`s word condemns.

Marilyn.

Marilyn C · May 28, 2019

mark kennedy said:
The New Jerusalem was created for his church:

For the Lord our God
the Almighty reigns.
Let us rejoice and exult
and give him the glory,
for the marriage of the Lamb has come,
and his Bride has made herself ready;

it was granted her to clothe herself with fine linen, bright and pure”— for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints. (Rev, 19:6-8)

Yes, the Bride of Christ is the church, cities don't do righteous deeds, people do.

Grace and peace,
Mark

Hi Mark,

So please can you show me where you think that the Church, the Body of Christ will have the inheritance of the city, the new Jerusalem.

The wife, the bride in Rev. 19 for the marriage of the Lamb, refers to Israel, as they were known to be the wife and the husband, (master) is God. The term Lamb is only used in relation to Israel to do with their sacrifices. Also they had to `make themselves ready by righteous deeds,` whereas we, the Body of Christ are righteous in Christ.

Marilyn.

ewq1938 · May 28, 2019

Marilyn C said:
Hi ewq,

The Apostle Paul is not building a doctrine that we are the Bride of Christ.

He is saying we are the bride of Christ but beating a dead concept won't result in anything new so thanks for the conversation.

mark kennedy · May 28, 2019

Marilyn C said:
Hi Mark,

So please can you show me where you think that the Church, the Body of Christ will have the inheritance of the city, the new Jerusalem.

The wife, the bride in Rev. 19 for the marriage of the Lamb, refers to Israel, as they were known to be the wife and the husband, (master) is God. The term Lamb is only used in relation to Israel to do with their sacrifices. Also they had to `make themselves ready by righteous deeds,` whereas we, the Body of Christ are righteous in Christ.

Marilyn.

Marilyn,

Israel is part of the church, actually the church has been grafted into the covenants and promises of God to Israel and extended to the Gentiles:

Jesus therefore called His disciples to fulfill Abraham’s commission to bless the nations (Genesis 12:2–3) by preaching the gospel of the Kingdom to all nations until the end of this age (Matthew 28:18–20). Paul thus preached the gospel of the Kingdom to the Jews and was repeatedly rejected (Acts 13—28); in consequence, Paul brought the good news to the Gentiles, who in turn became Abraham’s spiritual seed by faith and heirs of the promises to Abraham and his seed (Galatians 3—4). This is what Paul meant in Romans 11 by the Gentiles being “grafted” into the “olive tree” and nourished by the “root” (the promises to Abraham). The tree thus signifies the collective people of God; the “wild branches” grafted in are Gentile believers; the “natural branches” that are cut off are the Jews in unbelief. Jewish believers remain in the tree but are joined with Gentiles and “made” into a “new body,” the Church (Ephesians 2:11–22). (What does it mean that the church has been grafted in Israel’s place?)

Jerusalem during the Millennial reign of Christ, is the hub of the ministry of the church the entire time. The way leading in is the way called holiness and the Word of God will be taught everywhere. Paul insists throughout his writings there is no different between Jew and Gentile in Christ. Every believer will be there from righteous Abel to the last soul to receive Christ during the tribulation period.

Abraham "looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God" (Heb. 11:10). That city is the New Jerusalem.

Grace and peace,
Mark

Who is the Bride of Christ? (Hint: It's not the Church)

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