Who was Mary? Choose the one nearest to your own view

  • Mary was immaculately conceived, a perpetual virgin, assumed in heaven and the Mother of God

  • Mary was a blessed woman and a great example to us all and the Mother of our Lord

  • Mary was just another woman

  • Other, Please explain


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pescador

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“For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” only holds true for the context it’s written. Both Jews and Gentiles need redemption. It has no context to individual people.

Just as when Paul writes two chapters later -- ”so death spread to all men because all men sin” – the context is that both Jews and Gentiles have experienced death because of sin. We know that “all” here isn’t referring to all individuals because all did not experience death. To try to make the context of the first “all” be different than the second “all” in the short phrase ”so death spread to all men because all men sin” would be poor scholarship indeed.

I’m not sola-Scriptura; I don’t need an explicit statement that Mary did not sin. You should require one for yourself that she did sin however before professing that as truth.

I do believe the fact that she was sinless is reflected in Scripture. For one thing, when she is addressed by the angel Gabriel, he refers to her as “full of grace.” He doesn’t use it as an adjective to describe her; he uses it as her name, a title. The Greek word used in that passage is “Kecharitomene.” My understanding is that is in the perfect tense of the word, which would indicate both a past and present form. Regardless of whether you accept that, it is a unique form of the word of the Greek root word for grace charis, and is used exclusively in Scripture for Mary.

I think Mary herself tells us she is sinless when she professes that “My soul magnifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my savior” Luke 1:46-47). To magnify means to enlarge or bring into focus. I have searched the Scriptures for another instance when a person’s soul is referred to in this way and I have never found anything even remotely close. A soul marred by sin would not “magnify” the Lord; a perfectly sanctified soul would.

Aside from those clues about the state of Mary’s soul, I have no doubt that as a culture we have absolutely lost the sense of the sacred known to the Jewish people. Moses removed his sandals when he approached the holy ground of the burning bush. There are pages and pages of Scripture devoted to the construction of the tent of the meeting and the ark of the covenant and how they were perfectly sanctified before God came to dwell there among His people. To understand it is perfectly fitting for the woman that the King of Kings would take flesh from and dwell within would be perfectly sanctified from sin is consistent with how Scripture teaches us over and over again that God is Holy.

I am so glad that I am not a Catholic. I believe the Word of God -- the Bible -- and what it clearly says. I don't have to extract meanings that clearly aren't there.

For example, my Bible says "And Mary said:

“My soul glorifies the Lord
and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior"

My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, so I am just like Mary in my belief.

You take a single word from a single translation -- magnify -- to prove the Mary is sinless? Give me a break!
 
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pescador

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And what does your Bible say to you?

My Bible says many things to me. It does mention Mary in several places, but nothing resembling the extra-Biblical exaltation of that young woman. She gave birth to Jesus, raised Him, and observed His death on the cross.
 
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bbbbbbb

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My Bible says many things to me. It does mention Mary in several places, but nothing resembling the extra-Biblical exaltation of that young woman. She gave birth to Jesus, raised Him, and observed His death on the cross.

Actually, it is not just your Bible that says these things. The Bible (i.e. every Bible) says these things.
 
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pescador

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Actually, it is not just your Bible that says these things. The Bible (i.e. every Bible) says these things.

Would you prefer that I said "my Bibles", as I own and use several translations. Or did you not understand what I was saying?

If you want to play semantics, "the Bible (i.e. every Bible)" is self-contradictory.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Would you prefer that I said "my Bibles", as I own and use several translations. Or did you not understand what I was saying?

If you want to play semantics, "the Bible (i.e. every Bible)" is self-contradictory.

If that is your view, then I think it might have been better if you had simply said, "My interpretation (or understanding) of the Bible says . . ." The reality is that nobody's Bible says anything. It up to the individual to read the Bible and make sense of it.
 
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pescador

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If that is your view, then I think it might have been better if you had simply said, "My interpretation (or understanding) of the Bible says . . ." The reality is that nobody's Bible says anything. It up to the individual to read the Bible and make sense of it.

Oh really??? Your Bible doesn't talk???

BTW, don't you remember writing "Actually, it is not just your Bible that says these things. The Bible (i.e. every Bible) says these things." in post #127"? So, you are contradicting yourself with that post.

Why are you playing this semantics game? Everyone understands what I meant when I wrote "my Bible says" (except perhaps you, who used exactly the same words).
 
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pescador

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Here are some interesting quotes from the Bible...

"For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Romans 9:17

"As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” Romans 10:11

"God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel" Romans 11:2

"For Scripture says, “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,” and “The worker deserves his wages.” 1 Timothy 5:18

"Or do you think Scripture says without reason that he jealously longs for the spirit he has caused to dwell in us. But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: “God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble.” James 4:5-6

So bbbbbbb, according to your logic, both Paul and James claims that their "Bibles" actually talked -- and on more than one occasion.

If you're by any chance a KJVO, it says "Scripture saith..." thirteen times!
 
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concretecamper

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So bbbbbbb, according to your logic, both Paul and James claims that their "Bibles" actually talked -- and on more than one occasion.
for Paul and James, scripture was the Tanakh, not YOUR Bible :doh:
"Scripture saith..." thirteen times!
Books say a lot of thinks. If they talk to you, well then.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Oh really??? Your Bible doesn't talk???

BTW, don't you remember writing "Actually, it is not just your Bible that says these things. The Bible (i.e. every Bible) says these things." in post #127"? So, you are contradicting yourself with that post.

Why are you playing this semantics game? Everyone understands what I meant when I wrote "my Bible says" (except perhaps you, who used exactly the same words).

Apparently Concretecamper did not comprehend your meaning. In any event, I don't have a horse in this race, so carry on.
 
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pescador

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Apparently Concretecamper did not comprehend your meaning. In any event, I don't have a horse in this race, so carry on.

Really? Did your horse pull up lame? Because you wrote this: If that is your view, then I think it might have been better if you had simply said, "My interpretation (or understanding) of the Bible says . . ." The reality is that nobody's Bible says anything. It up to the individual to read the Bible and make sense of it.
 
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