WHO IS INFALLIBLE , PETER OR PAUL ?

[Dan Perez]

I do not take verse 23 to mean any man can do what only God can do for eternal redemption.
But the verse goes to establish, I think, that this was a meeting of the church.

The church in Corinth FORGAVE a brother who they had to put out of the fellowship for awhile.
In the first letter this sinning Christian brother was described as leaven which would corrupt the purity of the
church in Corinth. Paul told them to remove such a one.

It is actually reported that there is fornication among you, and such fornication that does not even occur among the Gentiles, that someone has his stepmother. And you are puffed up? And have you not rather mourned, that the one who has done this deed might be removed from your midst? (1 Cor. 5:1,2)

This was not cutting him off from eternal redemption, which can only be because God has forgiven our sins.
This was quaranting him that the germs of his sinning would not spread contagously.

Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? (v. 6b)
Purge out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, (v. 7a)

But in second letter we see that this backslidden brother repented. And the church FORGAVE him and
received him back into common communion with the congregation.
This is the forgiveness I believe the Lord was referring to.

And when He had said this, He breathed into them and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit.
Whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you retain, they are retained.

What are my alternatives? Does any Christian have the authority to pronounce
a sinner forgiven as to eternal redemption? If we could we wouldn't have to worry about gospel preaching.
Why we just grab people and pronounce that they are forgiven. You know we cannot do that,

So this authority to the disciples to forgive is like this in the Second Corinthian letter about the same brother.

Sufficient for such a one is this punishment by the majority,
So that on the contrary you should rather forgive and comfort him,

lest perhaps such a one be swallowed up with excessive sorrow.
Therefore I exhort you to confirm your love toward him. (2 Cor, 2:6,7)

I believe that John 20:22 and 23 were given to John by the Holy Spirit .

In verse 22 , Jesus said , Receive ye the Holy Spirit

That was Christ giving the disciples the POWER to Remit sins , PERIOD .

So how did the disciples Remit Sins ??

Here just one clue , Christ is speaking to Israel !!

It is a simple answer , your thoughts ?

dan p

dan p

 

[oikonomia]

I believe that John 20:22 and 23 were given to John by the Holy Spirit .

In verse 22 , Jesus said , Receive ye the Holy Spirit

That was Christ giving the disciples the POWER to Remit sins , PERIOD .

So how did the disciples Remit Sins ??

Here just one clue , Christ is speaking to Israel !!

It is a simple answer , your thoughts ?

dan p

dan p

The "clue" is not sensible. And your alternative explanation is not better.

Show me now in the books of Acts an example of the twelve disciples or the church
remitting sins to someone who has not repented to God for His forgiveness.

 

[Dan Perez]

The "clue" is not sensible. And your alternative explanation is not better.

Show me now in the books of Acts an example of the twelve disciples or the church
remitting sins to someone who has not repented to God for His forgiveness.

It is written I Acts 2:38 !!

And Matt 16:19 helps explain , that Christ gave Peter the KEYS of the Kingdom of Heaven .

And John 20:22 Christ gave the disciples , verse 19 .

And is verse , 22 Christ breathed on them and he breathed on them unto them RECIEVE ye the Holy Spirit .

And in verse 23 , the disciples can REMIT SINS

And they do not REMIT there SINS , there SINS are RETAINED >

Love your questions !!

dan p

dan p

 

[oikonomia]

It is written I Acts 2:38 !!

And Peter said to them, Repent and each one of you be baptized upon the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38)

The One doing the forgiving is Jesus upon whose name they were about to be baptized.
If this meant the apostles could remit sins then all they needed to do was just pronounce forgiveness - repented or not, baptized or not.

And Matt 16:19 helps explain , that Christ gave Peter the KEYS of the Kingdom of Heaven .

Sure, Christ gave Peter to open the door of the kingdom of the heavens to the Jews with one key and the Gentiles
with the other key.

The One doing the eternal redemption is the Christ the King. Only He has the authority to grant
eternal redemption.

You have to keep in mind that Jesus warned the disciples that at times they would not
be able to detect false saved people from real saved people.
If they had the authority to REMIT sins for eternal redemption, there would be no problem.
All they would need is to keep a record of who they RIMITTED of sins and who they did not.

But Jesus warns them that is some cases only the angels of God will be able to separate out of the world
false believers. This is clearly seen in the parable of the wheat and the tares and in the explanation Jesus Himself gives.
(Matthew 13:13:24-30, 36-43)

And John 20:22 Christ gave the disciples , verse 19 .

And is verse , 22 Christ breathed on them and he breathed on them unto them RECIEVE ye the Holy Spirit .

And in verse 23 , the disciples can REMIT SINS

And they do not REMIT there SINS , there SINS are RETAINED >

Love your questions !!

I can't say I am as in love with your answer. Sorry.
I explained how I am pretty sure the remitting of John 20 to the disciples should be understood.

Do you have the confidence that you can simply pronounce a man forgiven for eternal redemption and it is so?
You can open the door to the kingdom of the heavens. They have to want to enter. God is the One who makes
it possible.

 

[Dan Perez]

And Peter said to them, Repent and each one of you be baptized upon the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38)

The One doing the forgiving is Jesus upon whose name they were about to be baptized.
If this meant the apostles could remit sins then all they needed to do was just pronounce forgiveness - repented or not, baptized or not.

Sure, Christ gave Peter to open the door of the kingdom of the heavens to the Jews with one key and the Gentiles
with the other key.

The One doing the eternal redemption is the Christ the King. Only He has the authority to grant
eternal redemption.

You have to keep in mind that Jesus warned the disciples that at times they would not
be able to detect false saved people from real saved people.
If they had the authority to REMIT sins for eternal redemption, there would be no problem.
All they would need is to keep a record of who they RIMITTED of sins and who they did not.

But Jesus warns them that is some cases only the angels of God will be able to separate out of the world
false believers. This is clearly seen in the parable of the wheat and the tares and in the explanation Jesus Himself gives.
(Matthew 13:13:24-30, 36-43)


I can't say I am as in love with your answer. Sorry.
I explained how I am pretty sure the remitting of John 20 to the disciples should be understood.

Do you have the confidence that you can simply pronounce a man forgiven for eternal redemption and it is so?
You can open the door to the kingdom of the heavens. They have to want to enter. God is the One who makes
it possible.

Did you read verse in John 20:22 receive ye the Holy SPIRIT a it is in my KJV ??

Then in verse 23 Whose sins ye REMIT , and is it your bible , the KJV ??

And I love the KJV version !!

How does your version READ , as I would say and mean ?

I am in love what the HOLY SPIRIT wrote and are sure that you are sorry ?

dan p

dan p

 

[oikonomia]

Did you read verse in John 20:22 receive ye the Holy SPIRIT a it is in my KJV ??

Then in verse 23 Whose sins ye REMIT , and is it your bible , the KJV ??

And I love the KJV version !!

How does your version READ , as I would say and mean ?

I am in love what the HOLY SPIRIT wrote and are sure that you are sorry ?

dan p

dan p

The Recovery Version I probaby already quoted.

John 20:22, 23 - And when He had said this, He breathed into them and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit.
Whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you retain, they are retained.

I believe this forgiveness and retaining is probably demonstrated in the instance with the sinning brother who
was quaritined and then forgiven in Corinth.

You see because of the very heavy background of many today in Reform theology we tend to
overstretch some things. Individual forgiveness for justification unto eternal redemption is one matter some may see in all
passages about forgiveness in the Gospels.

A priority of the Gospel of John is the communal and corporate entity like the Vine Tree.
The branches are to abide in Christ the True Vine and love one another.
John chapter fifteen is dedicated to this collective or corporate expression of mutual love among the disciples
needed for the expression of the church.

Ie.
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; even as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
These things I have spoken to you that My joy may be in you and that your joy may be made full.
This is My commandment, that you love one another even as I have loved you. (John 15:10-12)

This horizontal salvation in oneness, in love, in mutual unity is very important to John's writings.
There is a vertical salvation from the one and only Redeemer Jesus.
But John also brings out a horizontal salvation related to being firmly in this Vine / Branches expression of the church.

So I believe the forgiveness, remittance, and retaining in chapter 20 is related to this horizontal community reconciliation
between fellow brothers, fellow branches in the vine. I think we should read John 20:22,23 in this light.

This makes real good sense to this believer. Assuming that the twelve had pope like authority to absolve people
of thier sins for eternal redemption brings in a lot of serious problems I think.

Of course when someone pays me a compliment but I cannot reciprocate it is kind of sorrowful.
You said you loved my questions. I said I can't say your answer I loved. I'm sorry about that.
I wasn't talking about you as a fellow lover of the Lord Jesus and His word as I too am.

 

[Dan Perez]

The Recovery Version I probaby already quoted.

John 20:22, 23 - And when He had said this, He breathed into them and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit.
Whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you retain, they are retained.

I believe this forgiveness and retaining is probably demonstrated in the instance with the sinning brother who
was quaritined and then forgiven in Corinth.

You see because of the very heavy background of many today in Reform theology we tend to
overstretch some things. Individual forgiveness for justification unto eternal redemption is one matter some may see in all
passages about forgiveness in the Gospels.

A priority of the Gospel of John is the communal and corporate entity like the Vine Tree.
The branches are to abide in Christ the True Vine and love one another.
John chapter fifteen is dedicated to this collective or corporate expression of mutual love among the disciples
needed for the expression of the church.

Ie.
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; even as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
These things I have spoken to you that My joy may be in you and that your joy may be made full.
This is My commandment, that you love one another even as I have loved you. (John 15:10-12)

This horizontal salvation in oneness, in love, in mutual unity is very important to John's writings.
There is a vertical salvation from the one and only Redeemer Jesus.
But John also brings out a horizontal salvation related to being firmly in this Vine / Branches expression of the church.

So I believe the forgiveness, remittance, and retaining in chapter 20 is related to this horizontal community reconciliation
between fellow brothers, fellow branches in the vine. I think we should read John 20:22,23 in this light.

This makes real good sense to this believer. Assuming that the twelve had pope like authority to absolve people
of thier sins for eternal redemption brings in a lot of serious problems I think.

Of course when someone pays me a compliment but I cannot reciprocate it is kind of sorrowful.
You said you loved my questions. I said I can't say your answer I loved. I'm sorry about that.
I wasn't talking about you as a fellow lover of the Lord Jesus and His word as I too am.

I know that many believers saved by Grace , will never believe in the Acts 9 position and Paul had the same problem , and when we get to heaven , and before the BEMA SEAT , all will be judged .

You say that the Church are called Vine/ Branches , and I believe that we that are saved are a New Creation and apart of Christ , and are Christ Eyes , Feet , sense of Hearing , and sense of Smell , in 1 Cor 12:15-17 !!

dan p

 

[oikonomia]

I know that many believers saved by Grace , will never believe in the Acts 9 position and Paul had the same problem , and when we get to heaven , and before the BEMA SEAT , all will be judged .

You say that the Church are called Vine/ Branches , and I believe that we that are saved are a New Creation and apart of Christ , and are Christ Eyes , Feet , sense of Hearing , and sense of Smell , in 1 Cor 12:15-17 !!

dan p

The church has many aspects. The true vine with the abiding branches is one metaphor for the church.
Saying she is the vine and branches is not denying she is the household, the one new man, the Body, the Bride.

Do you understand? The vine and the branches is one of a number of word pictures to explain the church.

 

[Dan Perez]

The church has many aspects. The true vine with the abiding branches is one metaphor for the church.
Saying she is the vine and branches is not denying she is the household, the one new man, the Body, the Bride.

Do you understand? The vine and the branches is one of a number of word pictures to explain the church.

There is no Greek for Church ?
Check and see what EKKLESIA is the Greek transliterated church??

EK means , OUT OF .

KLESIA means a calling .

So EKKLESIA means a called out assembly .

And a verse where the BODY of Christ is called a Bride ??

Your thoughts ??

dan p

 

[oikonomia]

There is no Greek for Church ?
Check and see what EKKLESIA is the Greek transliterated church??

EK means , OUT OF .

KLESIA means a calling .

So EKKLESIA means a called out assembly .

And a verse where the BODY of Christ is called a Bride ??

Your thoughts ??

dan p

οὐδεὶς γάρ ποτε τὴν ἑαυτοῦ σάρκα ἐμίσησεν, ἀλλ᾽ ἐκτρέφει καὶ θάλπει αὐτήν, καθὼς καὶ ὁ Κύριος τὴν ἐκκλησίαν· ὅτι μέλη ἐσμὲν τοῦ σώματος αὐτοῦ, ἐκ τῆς σαρκὸς αὐτοῦ καὶ ἐκ τῶν ὀστέων αὐτοῦ·

Above the New Testamnt teaches us Christians the church is the Body of Christ which He nourishes and cherishes.

ὅτι ὁ ἀνήρ ἐστι κεφαλὴ τῆς γυναικός, ὡς καὶ ὁ Χριστὸς κεφαλὴ τῆς ἐκκλησίας, καὶ αὐτός ἐστι σωτὴρ τοῦ σώματος.

Above the New Testament teaches that the wife of a loving husband is used to describe Christ and the church, of which He is the Savior of the Body. Of course a wife is first a bride.

οἱ ἄνδρες ἀγαπᾶτε τὰς γυναῖκας ἑαυτῶν, καθὼς καὶ ὁ Χριστὸς ἠγάπησε τὴν ἐκκλησίαν καὶ ἑαυτὸν παρέδωκεν ὑπὲρ αὐτῆς,

Above the New Testament draws a parallel between a husband loving his wife and Christ giving Himself up for the church.

τὸ μυστήριον τοῦτο μέγα ἐστίν, ἐγὼ δὲ λέγω εἰς Χριστὸν καὶ εἰς τὴν ἐκκλησίαν.

Above the New Testament shows the mystery of Eve coming out of Adam and being brought to Adam points
to Christ and the church.

Καὶ ἦλθεν εἷς τῶν ἑπτὰ ἀγγέλων τῶν ἐχόντων τὰς ἑπτὰ φιάλας τὰς γεμούσας τῶν ἑπτὰ πληγῶν τῶν ἐσχάτων, καὶ ἐλάλησε μετ᾿ ἐμοῦ λέγων· δεῦρο δείξω σοι τὴν νύμφην τὴν γυναῖκα τοῦ ἀρνίου.

Above the New Testament shows the bride prepared for her husband the Lamb meaning Christ the Redeemer receives the New Jerusalem.

ἵνα παραστήσῃ αὐτὴν ἑαυτῷ ἔνδοξον τὴν ἐκκλησίαν, μὴ ἔχουσαν σπίλον ἢ ῥυτίδα ἤ τι τῶν τοιούτων, ἀλλ᾽ ἵνα ᾖ ἁγία καὶ ἄμωμος.

Above is the NT teaching of the SIGN and symbolism described in the previous sample - a wife being presented to her husband without spot or wrinkle but holy and without blemish.

I'll let you look up the references. I'm sure you can find them in your KJV if you are familiar enough.

But bride ---> wife -----> body [of Christ] ------> church are truths inextricably linked together above.

Υμεῖς δέ ἐστε σῶμα Χριστοῦ καὶ μέλη ἐκ μέρους.

Let's not forget above here Paul is telling the Corinthian church that they are the Body of Christ.

καὶ πάντα ὑπέταξεν ὑπὸ τοὺς πόδας αὐτοῦ, καὶ αὐτὸν ἔδωκε κεφαλὴν ὑπὲρ πάντα τῇ ἐκκλησίᾳ, ἥτις ἐστὶ τὸ σῶμα αὐτοῦ, τὸ πλήρωμα τοῦ τὰ πάντα ἐν πᾶσι πληρουμένου.

And let's not forget the above here where the NT teaches that the church is His [Christ's] Body. And He is the Head of the church.

 

[Dan Perez]

When the life of Christ entered into the disciples, I believe the Body of Christ came into existence.
Focus on verse 22 below.

And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. The disciples therefore rejoiced at seeing the Lord.
Then Jesus said to them again, Peace be to you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.

And when He had said this, He breathed into them and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit. (v. 22)
Whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you retain, they are retained. (John 20:20-23)

This instance following His resurrection would be my best answer.
What do you think?

OK , and what do you mean In John 20:22 really means ?

Also notice that Greek word THE // HO is not used in verse 22 and reads !!

Receive ye Holy Spirit , and Now what does it mean ??

dan p

 

[Dan Perez]

οὐδεὶς γάρ ποτε τὴν ἑαυτοῦ σάρκα ἐμίσησεν, ἀλλ᾽ ἐκτρέφει καὶ θάλπει αὐτήν, καθὼς καὶ ὁ Κύριος τὴν ἐκκλησίαν· ὅτι μέλη ἐσμὲν τοῦ σώματος αὐτοῦ, ἐκ τῆς σαρκὸς αὐτοῦ καὶ ἐκ τῶν ὀστέων αὐτοῦ·

Above the New Testamnt teaches us Christians the church is the Body of Christ which He nourishes and cherishes.

ὅτι ὁ ἀνήρ ἐστι κεφαλὴ τῆς γυναικός, ὡς καὶ ὁ Χριστὸς κεφαλὴ τῆς ἐκκλησίας, καὶ αὐτός ἐστι σωτὴρ τοῦ σώματος.

Above the New Testament teaches that the wife of a loving husband is used to describe Christ and the church, of which He is the Savior of the Body. Of course a wife is first a bride.

οἱ ἄνδρες ἀγαπᾶτε τὰς γυναῖκας ἑαυτῶν, καθὼς καὶ ὁ Χριστὸς ἠγάπησε τὴν ἐκκλησίαν καὶ ἑαυτὸν παρέδωκεν ὑπὲρ αὐτῆς,

Above the New Testament draws a parallel between a husband loving his wife and Christ giving Himself up for the church.

τὸ μυστήριον τοῦτο μέγα ἐστίν, ἐγὼ δὲ λέγω εἰς Χριστὸν καὶ εἰς τὴν ἐκκλησίαν.

Above the New Testament shows the mystery of Eve coming out of Adam and being brought to Adam points
to Christ and the church.

Καὶ ἦλθεν εἷς τῶν ἑπτὰ ἀγγέλων τῶν ἐχόντων τὰς ἑπτὰ φιάλας τὰς γεμούσας τῶν ἑπτὰ πληγῶν τῶν ἐσχάτων, καὶ ἐλάλησε μετ᾿ ἐμοῦ λέγων· δεῦρο δείξω σοι τὴν νύμφην τὴν γυναῖκα τοῦ ἀρνίου.

Above the New Testament shows the bride prepared for her husband the Lamb meaning Christ the Redeemer receives the New Jerusalem.

ἵνα παραστήσῃ αὐτὴν ἑαυτῷ ἔνδοξον τὴν ἐκκλησίαν, μὴ ἔχουσαν σπίλον ἢ ῥυτίδα ἤ τι τῶν τοιούτων, ἀλλ᾽ ἵνα ᾖ ἁγία καὶ ἄμωμος.

Above is the NT teaching of the SIGN and symbolism described in the previous sample - a wife being presented to her husband without spot or wrinkle but holy and without blemish.

I'll let you look up the references. I'm sure you can find them in your KJV if you are familiar enough.

But bride ---> wife -----> body [of Christ] ------> church are truths inextricably linked together above.

Υμεῖς δέ ἐστε σῶμα Χριστοῦ καὶ μέλη ἐκ μέρους.

Let's not forget above here Paul is telling the Corinthian church that they are the Body of Christ.

καὶ πάντα ὑπέταξεν ὑπὸ τοὺς πόδας αὐτοῦ, καὶ αὐτὸν ἔδωκε κεφαλὴν ὑπὲρ πάντα τῇ ἐκκλησίᾳ, ἥτις ἐστὶ τὸ σῶμα αὐτοῦ, τὸ πλήρωμα τοῦ τὰ πάντα ἐν πᾶσι πληρουμένου.

And let's not forget the above here where the NT teaches that the church is His [Christ's] Body. And He is the Head of the church.

Where is a verse that the Body of Christ is called a BRIDE ?

DAN P

 

[oikonomia]

Concerning John 20:23 -

For some time when I was mch enfluenced by the Pentacostal movement and Charismatic concepts I use
to be puzzled over WHEN the Holy Spirit came. I couldn't figure out what to believe. Was it here in John 20:23 the Holy Spirit came or at the day of Pentacost He came in Acts chapter 2? I asked myself?

Then one day by God's mercy I noticed what the Lord said - "RECEIVE . . . RECEIVE . . . the Holy Spirit."
It did not say "Figure out the Holy Spirit." It said to "RECEIVE the Holy Spirit."

From that day I no longer worried about it. I concentrated on always receiving the Holy Spirit.
And once again I noticed that we are experts sometimes at missing the point of God's word.

 

[Dan Perez]

Concerning John 20:23 -

For some time when I was mch enfluenced by the Pentacostal movement and Charismatic concepts I use
to be puzzled over WHEN the Holy Spirit came. I couldn't figure out what to believe. Was it here in John 20:23 the Holy Spirit came or at the dayof Pentacost He came in Acts chapter 2? I asked myself?

Then one day by God's mercy I noticed what the Lord said - "RECEIVE . . . RECEIVE . . . the Holy Spirit."
It did not say "Figure out the Holy Spirit." It said to "RECEIVE the Holy Spirit."

From that day I no longer worried aboutit. I concentrated on always receiving the Holy Spirit.
And once again I noticed that we are experts sometimes at missing the point of God's word.

Why not read Acts 1:5 and what does it mean . I have to go now and will respond on Friday >

dan p

 

[oikonomia]

Why not read Acts 1:5 and what does it mean . I have to go now and will respond on Friday >

dan p

Why not read the entire wonderful book of Acts?
We can't go wrong seeking Christ in every page of the Bible

For John baptized with water, but you shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days from now. (Acts 1:5)

And that is what happened to them in Acts chapter 2. They were clothed with power and boldness to
speak out for God. They were immersed into one Spirit and into one Body. Praise the Lord.

This was the promise kept that was given to them from the Father.
And behold, I send forth the promise of My Father upon you; but as for you,
stay in the city until you put on power from on high. (Luke 24:29)

None of this makes it impossible for the Lord to keep His own promise to them
that in resurrection He would come to live in them. And He told them to "Receive the Holy Spirit" (John 20:23)
on the evening of His resurrection.

John was one of the twelve. He knew what happened on both occasions.
And he well knew that in the teachings of especially chapters 14 through 16 Jesus had made
promises. And these He kept when He breathed Himself into the disciples for life.

John 20:23 is more about the Holy Spirit coming into them as divine life.
Acts chapter 2 is more about the same Holy Spirit coming upon them as a clothing of power.

We need Christ the Spirit as life. And we need Christ the Spirit for power.
We need Him within as the living water. We need Him upon us as a uniform of authority in the face of the enemy.

 

[Dan Perez]

Why not read the entire wonderful book of Acts?
We can't go wrong seeking Christ in every page of the Bible

For John baptized with water, but you shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days from now. (Acts 1:5)

And that is what happened to them in Acts chapter 2. They were clothed with power and boldness to
speak out for God. They were immersed into one Spirit and into one Body. Praise the Lord.

This was the promise kept that was given to them from the Father.
And behold, I send forth the promise of My Father upon you; but as for you,
stay in the city until you put on power from on high. (Luke 24:29)

None of this makes it impossible for the Lord to keep His own promise to them
that in resurrection He would come to live in them. And He told them to "Receive the Holy Spirit" (John 20:23)
on the evening of His resurrection.

John was one of the twelve. He knew what happened on both occasions.
And he well knew that in the teachings of especially chapters 14 through 16 Jesus had made
promises. And these He kept when He breathed Himself into the disciples for life.

John 20:23 is more about the Holy Spirit coming into them as divine life.
Acts chapter 2 is more about the same Holy Spirit coming upon them as a clothing of power.

We need Christ the Spirit as life. And we need Christ the Spirit for power.
We need Him within as the living water. We need Him upon us as a uniform of authority in the face of the enemy.

Acts 1:5 meaning as I see it today !!

#1 Water Baptism began only to Israel and NOT to Gentiles .

#2 Israel never new what water Baptism meant nor seen it until John came water baptizing .

#3 John indeed BAPTIZED //with water is in the Greek Aorist Tense and in the Active Voice , in the Indicative Mood , meaning it is the Truth and in the Singular , meaning it will happen only once on the Day of Pentecost , because it is in the Singular .

#4 With Water // YDOR is in the Dative case and also Singular , meaning one time only , in the NEUTER , meaning Male and Female .

#5 YE // HYMEIS is a PERSONAL POSSESSIVE PRONOUN , in the Nominative Case and in the Plural to Israel .

#6 SHALL BE BAPTIZED // BAPTIZO , is in the FUTURE TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE meaning that Christ is causing the action and I believe it is referring to Mark 16:16-18 .

dan p