Who is better?

[Valo]

Who is better?

The Christian that does good in order to buy themselves into Heaven because a book told them.

OR

The Atheist that does good because it is the right thing to do by their own morals because they like to help people.


I'm thinking that its the Athiest because no one told them to do good, they won't get anything out of it. Maybe a warm fuzzy feeling that they've helped someone and made a friend but they're not trying to buy God's graces with it.

 

[sparklecat]

You're leaving out the atheist who does good because they want to look like a good person to others, and the Christian who does good out of a genuine love for and desire to please their god, or to help others.





There are people with selfish and non-selfish motivations on both sides.

 

[Valo]

"genuine love for and desire to please their god"

To please their God? Why does someone need an excuse such as God to do good within the world? Isn't it more moral to do good for the sake of it, than to please a God?

 

[marblehead]

The Christian, everybody knows that us atheists are evil.

 

[sparklecat]

"genuine love for and desire to please their god"

To please their God? Why does someone need an excuse such as God to do good within the world? Isn't it more moral to do good for the sake of it, than to please a God?

You're going to be doing your good works for some reason. What's wrong with doing it out of love for another, whether it be for a fellow human or for your deity?




I don't find it especially admirable to say you do good because it is good. Having a circular reason such as that implies a degree of intellectual laziness to me, rather than some sort of higher morality.

 

[non-religious]

[Valo]Who is better?

The Christian that does good in order to buy themselves into Heaven because a book told them.

OR

The Atheist that does good because it is the right thing to do by their own morals because they like to help people.


I'm thinking that its the Athiest because no one told them to do good, they won't get anything out of it. Maybe a warm fuzzy feeling that they've helped someone and made a friend but they're not trying to buy God's graces with it.

I agree with sparklecat on this. I try to do good not becos I'm a Christian, but because I want to and having a ten year old daughter means that for me it's even more essential that I try to be a positive role model. Besides when you say doing good what exactly do you mean?

Also, just doing good doesn't get anyone to heaven, not even the most pious, self-righteous Christian....

 

[Valo]

People who do good to impress people aren't the issue. And MarbleHead yeah, we're obviously evil if we're athiests that do good because its the right thing to do. If I like to spread a little happiness because this world has so much suffering and choose not to ignore someone who is in trouble then what am I doing it for? Because I was to impress people, no, because of my love for all mankind, no because I don't love all of man kind, but because somebody needs help. There's so many bad things in this world, why can't you do something good to help someone, whether you love them or not. Why do good because a God told you to because he orders you to love everyone? Why not do it to just help someone when they need it. Not for some approval of a God.

 

[momalle1]

Why does one have to be better? Can't they both be just as good?

 

[sparklecat]

Why does one have to be better? Can't they both be just as good?

Quite. Valo, why do you think it is more moral to do good for the reasons you do than for the reasons a Christian might? What makes it better?

 

[Valo]

Because you're told to do it. Buying your way into Heaven.

 

[sparklecat]

Because you're told to do it. Buying your way into Heaven.

That's not the point of mainstream Christianity, and not what I said. I gave the example of doing something to please another and out of love for them, not to gain some reward.

 

[Valo]

But you only have love for them because your God tells them to. By loving them and doing this you are obeying God's law to get to Heaven.

 

[MethodMan]

Who is better?

The Christian that does good in order to buy themselves into Heaven because a book told them.

This is not a Christian then.

OR

The Atheist that does good because it is the right thing to do by their own morals because they like to help people.


I'm thinking that its the Athiest because no one told them to do good, they won't get anything out of it. Maybe a warm fuzzy feeling that they've helped someone and made a friend but they're not trying to buy God's graces with it.

God told you to be good.

 

[momalle1]

Because you're told to do it. Buying your way into Heaven.

This is where you are mistaken, Christians only need to accept Christ as the son of God and savior of man to enjoy eternal life in God's kingdom. It's sharing the love of Christ that makes you do good things.

 

[Valo]

But why accept Jesus? To be saved. To get to Heaven.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

Who is better?

The Christian that does good in order to buy themselves into Heaven because a book told them.

OR

The Atheist that does good because it is the right thing to do by their own morals because they like to help people.


I'm thinking that its the Athiest because no one told them to do good, they won't get anything out of it. Maybe a warm fuzzy feeling that they've helped someone and made a friend but they're not trying to buy God's graces with it.

The premise is in error.
A person that does good... does good.
Your Either/Or consideration is focused on motivation; it doesn't negate the end result being good.

Put it this way: If some kid crankin' out hamburgers at a fast food chain doesn't spit in my hamburger out of a fear of being caught, love and pride of his/her job, or simply because he/she thinks that they have reasoned out that he/she shouldn't do that because he/she wouldn't want others to do that to them, then the motivation really doesn't matter to me.

Besides, the OP has other unspoken premises too that need to be proven, such as the Atheist allegedly "discovered" what was good rather than was instructed at some point that this or that is good or bad, etc...

 

[sparklecat]

But you only have love for them because your God tells them to. By loving them and doing this you are obeying God's law to get to Heaven.

Not necessarily. One, as someone else already pointed out, many Christian denominations hold that it's your faith which saves you, not obeying God's law. Others, such as the Universalists, certainly wouldn't see good works as necessary for Heaven. As well, I'm not going to complain if some Christian who doesn't know me helps me out because they feel they have an ethical duty to do so. The only difference between them and an atheist who doesn't know me and helps me out of some ethical duty is where they claim their morals came from - in neither case is it anything about actually loving me. The Christian will say God handed down their morals, while the atheist... well, it depends on the atheist. Probably something about societal teachings will come up.

 

[momalle1]

But why accept Jesus? To be saved. To get to Heaven.

No, many who don't accept Jesus believe they will go to heaven also, it's my choice to believe or not.

 

[Valo]

But to have faith, and not do as the Bible and God instructed would be sinning wouldn't it? going against your faith therefore you wouldn't go to Heaven.

 

[momalle1]

But to have faith, and not do as the Bible and God instructed would be sinning wouldn't it? going against your faith therefore you wouldn't go to Heaven.

You'll have to show me where it says that in the new testament.

Either way, I don't see one person being better than the other, doing good is doing good.