TrustAndObey said:
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Stormy, there has been a big misunderstanding here. Having the Adventist icon is not our rule, it's the rule of the forum. If anyone wants to debate (or dissect) a doctrine within a church's belief system, they must have the icon of that church. It's in the "Read this before posting" sticky.
I'm merely asking you to follow the rules.
Like Windmill, I'm interested to know your beliefs. So far all you're saying is that you disagree with us...which is fine, but what that means is you're dissecting what we believe and we're not being given the same opportunity to see if your view can be challenged. It would be nice if you'd just say "I disagree with that, and here's why......." or "What about this though........" In order for us to truly learn from each other, we have to be given the same opportunity to know your beliefs, that's all I'm saying.
I can't explain the verse you gave (that seemingly condoned buying alcohol) anymore than you can explain the many we've posted that say not to. However, you cannot turn one verse into a reason to condone a Christian using alcohol. It is one of the fundamental beliefs within our church that the members do not partake in alcohol or drugs.
Furthermore, Happywiththelord did give some excellent verses that showed the second tithe was going to be used to buy offerings to give before the Lord, and that the strong drink would be poured out before Him...nowhere in the verse you gave does it say to drink it.
Regardless, you already stated that you disagree and you stand firm on your one verse. So at this point we're at an impasse. That is where the debate should end out of respect for everybody, no? Now please forgive me if I'm not correct, but when you continuing debating a subject when everyone has laid their best explanations on the table, then it is no longer an educated debate...it is a fight.
I'm only bringing this particular discussion up because you disagree with a fundamental belief within our church system. Knowing that, and the fact that you do not choose to use the icon representative of our church, what conclusion is expected from us? What are we supposed to think here?
I agree with Cliff that it is very bad that people visiting our section of the forum see us fighting with other members. This is not a good representation of our church at all!
If we're not part of the solution then we are part of the problem. We cannot leave all the decision-making to the moderators when they don't know our faith at all. I'm sure they would agree with me on this one. 
I don't even know if it's possible to change the rules for our forum, it might be a site standard. Moderators, do we have any say so on how the rules read for our forum?
We have got to work with the moderators on this, or it will be a flop.
Fellow members, if we can have part in helping change the guidelines, what do you say we discuss some changes amongst ourselves in PMs and then present our case to the moderators? The rules need to changed for this forum so that it really isn't a debate area at all. There are plenty of places on this site to engage in debates if that is what someone is seeking. Or, like Cliff suggested, members could take disagreements into PM.
We could all submit our suggestions for new guidelines, put them in an organized document, give the finished product to the moderators and take a vote...majority rules. Anybody with me?
We can report disagreements all day long, but eventually our moderators are going to get tired of us...and I know that isn't what any of us want.
Please let's all work very dilligently on making this a forum that lets our faith in God shine through above anything else! Brothers and sisters, we have to stick together in these last days, but since disagreement is bound to happen, we need to figure out a better way to handle it. One that is productive and lets everyone feel like a useful part on this forum, without anyone feeling left out.
I have come to love each and every person on this forum and some of the "off-site" fellowship has been outstanding. I don't want to see it turn into something that needs moderator intervention all the time.
That's my .02
God bless everyone and have a wonderful Sabbath day!!!!
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~Lainie
I completely agree with your .02 The moderators are going to tire, probably already have, of the "tattle tales". We have got to find a way to "agree to disagree".
Unfortunately, most of my experience on the internet in regards to my faith...this forum, other forums, and chatrooms has been that people seek us out and do what they can to "bash us". We dare to stray from the mainstream..we're not jewish but we DARE to worship on Saturday...that makes us a cult, etc....you name it, I have heard it all.
I have no problem, Stormy, in discussing Adventist beliefs or doctrine with ANYONE, let alone another Adventist...as a matter of fact, I welcome those opportunities. I will not, however, argue over any given points. Arguing is pointless, and usually cruel to one or the other partner in the debate.
Even though our communications are just "words on a screen", we must remember that emotions do come through...we often give an inflection that can be read by the others...sometimes it is completely misunderstood, but is OFTEN dead on.
Stormy, no one had a problem with the posting of the verse you chose. However, you came off "argumentative" with your "- I disagree", and you said nothing else. Not specifically what you disagreed with, etc.
As Adventists, we have become so used to being attacked by others, that I think we have come to look for that first, and it clouds our perception.
I think we would (and notice I said "we") all do well to remember that is more HOW you say something then WHAT you say.
TrustAndObey is right, the rules do state you need to have your Adventist hat on, to "discuss" issues on this thread.
For myself, I never meant to offend you, and I don't remember saying anything that should have. But you have to understand what most have gotten used to. It seemed truly odd to me that you disagreed with something that is a basic and fundamental belief of our church - to not partake of alcohol. That would be about the same as a catholic saying they don't agree with or participate in communion. If it had been something about EGW, I wouldn't have thought as much about it because ones faith in her as a prohet or her abilities often depends on their own view...but to become a member of this church you vow not to ingest these substances...so I, myself, found it odd that you were disagreeing with that...and that may have strengthened my belief that we had a "basher" just starting to rev up his engine, on board.
I do thank you for the history you gave us...it was interesting.
other than the fact you simply "disagree" on stuff.
