• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Who has read the Book of Mormon?

Jake255

Regular Member
Jul 10, 2011
1,526
142
✟25,142.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
This seems loving, too.....oh......wait......???

Brigham Young said. . .
"But He did send His angel to this same obscure person, Joseph Smith jun., who afterwards became a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and informed him that he should not join any of the religious sects of the day, for they were all wrong." (Brigham Young, "Journal of Discourses," Vol. 2, page 171. - 1855)
 
Reactions: PennyFree
Upvote 0

LegacyJB

Soldier in God's Army
Jan 6, 2014
754
6
in the Lord Christ Jesus
✟23,427.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single

You don't even know what an angel is. There is more than one definition yet you're trying to force the word to be confined to one definition and that's it. These are the definitions of "angel":

-a messenger of God
-a supernatural being, either good or bad, to whom are attributed greater than human power, intelligence, etc.
-a guiding spirit or influence: one's good angel
-a conventionalized image of a white-robed figure in human form with wings and a halo
-a person regarded as being as beautiful, good, innocent, etc. as an angel: said esp. of women and children
-an English gold coin, last issued in 1634, stamped with an image of the archangel Michael and the dragon
-a supporter who provides money, as for producing a play
-a radar echo from something other than an aircraft, as from birds or rain

Was Abraham a messenger of God or not? If he wasn't an angel he wasn't a prophet going by the first definition of "angel". If he wasn't a prophet then a lot of the Bible is blatantly wrong.

No, I'm pretty right on this one too. Here are the verses Christians use:
Mark 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

Do I really have to give you a list of arguments critics use? Do you not know what your peers say? I've heard nearly all of the arguments. When I was on the mission I was impressed to hear arguments that weren't parroted. I'm well-versed in what traditional/mainstream (if you notice I refer to mainstream as traditional and not biblical) Christianity. I've even had to explain the trinity theory to trinitarians because I get multiple verses of this theory from people who profess to believe in it.

If you have faith in God why do you require evidence? It seems like you have more trust in evidence than you do in God.

As if I haven't heard that one before. Where is the danger of God giving more of His word? Is He powerless to do so? Does He not love us anymore? Do we not need Him anymore? My eyes are open to God and the Lamb of God, He who is Jesus Christ. The gospel has been restored. The Book of Mormon is true. If the Book of Mormon weren't true it would have died off long ago.

Like I said before, do you want me to list of the criticisms your peers give since you don't know what they are?
 
Upvote 0

LegacyJB

Soldier in God's Army
Jan 6, 2014
754
6
in the Lord Christ Jesus
✟23,427.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
It is telling that Joseph Smith claims all other churches are false and the members of such are going to hell if they don't convert to Mormonism.

So, no, Mormons do not see all believers as brothers and sisters.

A critic of the church trying to tell us what we supposedly believe is like a cow trying to say meow.
 
Upvote 0

Jake255

Regular Member
Jul 10, 2011
1,526
142
✟25,142.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Doctrine and Covenants 76:71Â[bless and do not curse]

the 3 main degrees of glory. Hell is spoken of as spirit prison taught by Peter until the last resurrection when they can be resurrected to the telestial glory.
That is not what Peter taught - at all. The NT teaches about 'perish' and hell is in no way defined as 'glory'. Basically, telestial glory is where we live now - on the earth -according to Mormons.

It is in direct conflict with what the Bible actually teaches, the D/C adds to what was already established in the Bible, regarding hell. Mormons have conveniently left out the word 'perish', 'hell', 'eternal torment'.

You need to define believer so we know what you mean?
 
Reactions: PennyFree
Upvote 0

LegacyJB

Soldier in God's Army
Jan 6, 2014
754
6
in the Lord Christ Jesus
✟23,427.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single

Ok. Good job. You can quote. So can we. Heck, so can a 5 year old. All other churches do teach of Christ but because they do not have the fullness of the gospel they are still wrong. I've read the creeds and they're very...how can I put this...poorly written. They are not authoritative.
 
Upvote 0

drstevej

"The crowd always chooses Barabbas."
In Memory Of
Mar 18, 2003
47,577
27,116
76
Lousianna
✟1,016,631.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican


Come by my house sometime. The last two teenage elders, after a two hour discussion at my dining room table, told me that I know more about Mormonism than most folks in their church.
 
Upvote 0

Jake255

Regular Member
Jul 10, 2011
1,526
142
✟25,142.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Do you have anything useful to add to the conversation?

or not.....
 
Upvote 0

RevelationTestament

Our God is a consuming fire.
Apr 26, 2013
3,727
46
United States
✟26,904.00
Faith
Marital Status
Married
The words of the First Vision were to Joseph in a solitary setting.

How is that reproving?

Is ... turning people black to keep His white and "delightsome" folks from being enticed ... reproving love to those who were re-pigmented?

-- 2 Nephi 5:21
that is an obvious and horribly repeated tactic of yours to change the subject.
I've shown repeatedly it is not talking about physical skin color - no more so than being made "white" in Daniel or "black skin" in Job, etc.
 
Upvote 0

Jake255

Regular Member
Jul 10, 2011
1,526
142
✟25,142.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single

you will need to provide resources and quotes of mainstream Christianity believing we will become angels.

I'm waiting......
 
Upvote 0

LegacyJB

Soldier in God's Army
Jan 6, 2014
754
6
in the Lord Christ Jesus
✟23,427.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
There are no critics when one is exposing a cult.

It seems like you don't know the definitions of many words. A cult is any religious group that follows a person. Doesn't mainstream profess to follow Jesus Christ? He is still a person although Son of God. In that respect all religions are cults. In the insulting way unChrist-like people such as yourself mean the word, we're not a cult. You have gone on saying you know what a Christian is and isn't, it's blasphemous to do certain things, believe certain things, etc. All of that and yet here you are not even showing an ounce of desire to be Christlike toward others. You love putting others down more than you love the Savior. When you put others in front of Him you reap spiritual consequences. From what I've seen from you I have all the reason to question your faith in and love for God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ.
 
Upvote 0

RevelationTestament

Our God is a consuming fire.
Apr 26, 2013
3,727
46
United States
✟26,904.00
Faith
Marital Status
Married

You obviously need to brush up on Peter and D & C before "teaching" what you think we believe.
Peter did teach of spirit prison and that Christ went to teach the spirits of the dead who could live godly in 1 Peter 3 & 4.

Jesus too: John 5:25
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

D & C does not say hell is glory. It says those who do wickedly will be thrust down to hell until the last resurrection when they can be resurrected to the telestial glory. In my book that is being saved.
 
Upvote 0

RevelationTestament

Our God is a consuming fire.
Apr 26, 2013
3,727
46
United States
✟26,904.00
Faith
Marital Status
Married
you will need to provide resources and quotes of mainstream Christianity believing we will become angels.

I'm waiting......
We would wait a long time indeed since mainstream christianity doesn't follow the Bible.
Daniel: "the man Gabriel."
Rev: "according to the measure of a man, that is the angel."
etc.
 
Upvote 0

Jake255

Regular Member
Jul 10, 2011
1,526
142
✟25,142.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
We would wait a long time indeed since mainstream christianity doesn't follow the Bible.
Daniel: "the man Gabriel."
Rev: "according to the measure of a man, that is the angel."
etc.
Way to take scripture WAY out of context.

....but that's what cults do.....
 
Reactions: PennyFree
Upvote 0

southcountry

Newbie
Feb 14, 2013
489
9
✟23,164.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The problem is, its not what is there, its what is NOT there. I havent read the whole book, but from what I did read,I found no mention of some key elements the bible holds.

Question 1. is there a lake of glass mentioned there? Does the BoM describe its location?

Question 2. Is there a description of Gods throne?

Question 3. Are there any details of the anti-christ?

These are very important subjects to me, as the bible contains this information, and I believe anything which purports to be an extension of the bible should address these issues in some manner as the bible does in Ezekiel, Isaiah, Daniel, and Revelation.

The bible is actually a witness of creation from beginning to end. Does the BoM contain information to this effect?
 
Upvote 0

drstevej

"The crowd always chooses Barabbas."
In Memory Of
Mar 18, 2003
47,577
27,116
76
Lousianna
✟1,016,631.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
A critic of the church trying to tell us what we supposedly believe is like a cow trying to say meow.

Can you explain the point here? Only Mormons know what Mormon's believe?
 
Upvote 0

Moodshadow

Veteran
Jun 29, 2006
4,701
142
Flower Mound, TX
✟20,743.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married

I used that line about the uneducated farm boy so many times myself when I was a member. Do I believe he was capable of those things? Of course - he did them, didn't he? He was also capable of deceiving people on a rather constant basis, including his own ever-faithful wife, right under the sanctity of their own roof. The regular posters here are undoubtedly ho-humming as they read this because they've heard it all before, so I'm not pursuing it further as a courtesy to them. If you care, let me know and perhaps we can do it privately.

What I concluded about Joseph Smith, after all the dust settled, is that he was a charming, cunning, charismatic fraud. Now please bear in mind that that is an opinion, and I'm stating it very matter-of-factly, not in anger, not in a vitriolic manner or in any attempt to persuade anyone here to believe one way or another - and therefore it is unworthy of any childish, hasty report to the moderators. You asked, I responded - and yes, the Spirit knows better than any man.
 
Upvote 0

LegacyJB

Soldier in God's Army
Jan 6, 2014
754
6
in the Lord Christ Jesus
✟23,427.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Way to take scripture WAY out of context.

....but that's what cults do.....

And "you took that out of context" is what critics have a habit of saying. You just can't stand the thought that a Mormon just might know the Bible. I certainly know it. Two types of devout Mormons you never try to debate scripture with: a Utah Mormon and a Bible-belt Mormon. I live in the Bible-belt and we know the Bible quite well.
 
Upvote 0

LegacyJB

Soldier in God's Army
Jan 6, 2014
754
6
in the Lord Christ Jesus
✟23,427.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single

The Bible doesn't say how all of the martyred apostles were killed. Wouldn't this be important? I mean hey, they're the ancient Apostles. Jesus told Peter, James, and John to declare what they saw at the mount where Moses and Elias were after He was resurrected and we don't have any record of that. Seriously, no record of something Jesus directly commanded them to do. Is that not important?

Because you can't find anything wrong with the verses I posted from the Book of Mormon you resort to what you think isn't in the book. Question 1: not important because it has nothing to do with salvation. Question 2: doesn't have an exact description but Lehi saw the throne. Question 3: please read the Book of Mormon. It's there.

You mentioned Revelation. In the Book of Mormon there are chapters consisting of Nephi conversing with an angel who tells Nephi of things to come. Toward the end it states the angel showed Nephi many other things but he was forbidden to write them because the angel would later reveal those forbidden things to John and John would write them. The visions in Revelation were also seen by Nephi. This means anything John saw, Nephi saw. After all, it was the same angel.
 
Upvote 0