Who goes to hell?

[True_KeN]

I know this question may get a lot of ambiguous answers and responses such as... there is no short answer to this question.

I assume that if someone believes and has faith in God and accepts God and accepts that Jesus Christ died for our sins then he will go to heaven and not hell. Are there any exceptions to this? If a baby dies will it go to hell? Can someone go to hell through ignorance of God? If someone is mentally retarded and cannot understand or apreciate the concept of God, will this person go to hell? I am not trying to debate the morality of any of these issues. I would just like as "clear cut" definition of who gets condemned to hell and who can go to heaven. I know ultimatey it is God's decision but what does the bible say on the matter and what are the commonly held beliefs in Christianity regarding what people are deserving of hell.

Thanks!!!

 

[The Midge]

Any one who wants to.

I think that judgeing the age and capacity for responsibility is beyond us. The more catholic churches answer the question through infant baptism following the examples of when entire families were baptised in Acts there by infants are saved.

To answer this question would be to prejeudeg God who looks into our heart and motives. IMHO God can see if we want to be with Him and can determine if those who have never heard about Christ or are very young would respond to the Gospel had they been capable. But to be honest we are simply not told about this in scripture so no one can be definitive about it.

 

[True_KeN]

One of the reasons why I ask this question is because I am curious about the role ignorance plays in heaven and hell. I gave my brother a question to ask his theology professor from last year. My brother goes to Boston College, a catholic institution. My question was not originally in regards to ignorance itself. Here is the question I had asked:

"According to John 3:18, " 'He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.' According to the bible, what happens to a man that, through his own epistemically responsible reasoning, is unable to believe in the bible and the Christian God? What will happen to him when he dies if he is unable to have faith and believe in God?"

His response was as follows:

"The short answer is that God does not condemn anyone, but that when
given an informed decision, one chooses heaven or hell, accepts God or
rejects God. We're responsible for searching for the truth, and according
to Scripture, Christ says seek and you shall find. If we choose not to
search we're culpable. Whether this condemns us is another
question---what happens the other side of death is unknown, but surely our choices,
habits, and actions play a role in preparing for what is a final
decision. At any rate, at that final moment, God will not condemn because of
ignorance, but because of choice."

I was curious if this answer could be generally agreed upon by other Christians. I have been unable to find a source from the bible itself that proves or substantiates this answer that I received. While I think a theology professor would be a good citation nonetheless for the paper that I am writing, I would ideally like actual quotes from the bible or atleast to understand why this answer is accepted among Christians. If it is not accepted I am also curious as to why this professors answer is incorrect, or possibly insufficient.

P.S. On a sidenote, it bothers me a little that the bible could be silent on such an important topic. To humans, the possibly of life after death for eternity is an infinitely significant one and I do not understand why the bible seems to be silent on this issue (unless it is simply my ignorance of the bible). So many things in the bible seem to be written about ideas that are much less important than this one.

Thanks for any help!

 

[Monica02]

My understanding of the Catholic teaching is that one will go to hell if one dies in a state of mortal sin. For a sin to be mortal three conditons must be met:
The sin is of grave matter.
It must be committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.

See Cathechism of the Catholic Church, paragraphs #1857-1859.

EWTN website has a queston forum. You might want to check them out. EWTN is pretty orthodox and the priests on the question forum are knowledgable.

 

[Sketcher]

I've found some mentally retarded people and young children have an excellent faith in God. They can't wrap their minds around the great theological issues and debates, but they have no problems accepting the basic faith.

BTW, not even the most intelligent Christian can understand God. But thankfully He made the Gospel (good news of Jesus Christ) very easy to understand.

 

[True_KeN]

Thank you for the response, I will check that website out as well for information. When I mentioned children I actually did not mean children that were old enough to understand the concept of God. I was referring to new born babies and really young children who are unable to even understand the concept of God to be able to have faith in such a thing. In otherwords, children that are too young to understand Santa Claus in my mind are also too young to understand the concept of God

You also mentioned that the sin must be of a grave matter. What sins are of a grave matter and is there a link you can give me or maybe you can even answer this yourself, but is there a "definitive" list of all of the sins?

Thank you for your time!

 

[True_KeN]

My understanding of the Catholic teaching is that one will go to hell if one dies in a state of mortal sin. For a sin to be mortal three conditons must be met:
The sin is of grave matter.
It must be committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.

See Cathechism of the Catholic Church, paragraphs #1857-1859.

EWTN website has a queston forum. You might want to check them out. EWTN is pretty orthodox and the priests on the question forum are knowledgable.

Could you also define "in a state"? Does the person have to die WHILE committing the sin? Or maybe the person has committed ANY of these sins with full knowledge and deliberate intent in the period of his life? If it is the former, then what if a person dies in her sleep? If it is the latter, does having faith in God and Jesus Christ have any effect? Is lacking faith in God considered to be a mortal sin? From your catholic teachings do you have ANY ideas regarding the issue of ignorance?

Thanks!

 

[Monica02]

Could you also define "in a state"? Does the person have to die WHILE committing the sin? Or maybe the person has committed ANY of these sins with full knowledge and deliberate intent in the period of his life? If it is the former, then what if a person dies in her sleep? If it is the latter, does having faith in God and Jesus Christ have any effect? Is lacking faith in God considered to be a mortal sin? From your catholic teachings do you have ANY ideas regarding the issue of ignorance?

Thanks!

Thannks for the interest. I am not articulate enough to answer your questions and not computer smart enough to link you to anything. I apologize for my ignorance. Perhaps a cleverer Catholic will post. I mentioned EWTN because they are very orthodox , and there is alot of Catholic nonsense out there. Boston College, like most "Catholic " schools is questionable. I do not know about this particular prof., but just be weary of any info that is labeled "catholic".

I suggest you buy a copy of the Catechism and I assume you already have a Bible.

To die in a "state" of mortal sin means that you have unforgiven mortal sin on your soul. Grave matter can include sexual sins, murder, serious omissions, ect... Again, please check a reputable source.

If you die before you are able to get to confession, then I believe intent to go and sincere contrition is acceptable.

I think this subject is way too complicated for a chat forum. I think you need to do some serious research. Perhaps a poster can suggest some reliable books.

I am sure you know that there are non-Catholic views on this, I am only discussing the Catholic view , which I believe to be correct.

 

[Reformationist]

I assume that if someone believes and has faith in God and accepts God and accepts that Jesus Christ died for our sins then he will go to heaven and not hell. Are there any exceptions to this?

No exceptions. If one's faith is true then it is because God has given them the gift of faith. God does not do this for someone only to end up sending them to hell.

If a baby dies will it go to hell?

The Bible does not say if there are any babies that go to hell.

Can someone go to hell through ignorance of God?

As there is only one path to Heaven, and that through Christ, a person's ignorance of Christ is not an accident and therefore God has not made atonement for their sins.

If someone is mentally retarded and cannot understand or apreciate the concept of God, will this person go to hell?

The Bible does not say.

Thanks!!!

Hope that helps. Sorry for the ambiguity of my answers but, unfortunately, the Bible does not go into detail about the answers to these questions so any answers we give are merely speculation.

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

According to the bible, what happens to a man that, through his own epistemically responsible reasoning, is unable to believe in the bible and the Christian God?

The ability to believe in Christ unto salvation is not the product of responsible reasoning, epistemologically or otherwise. It is the product of God giving that gift of His grace. If a person does not have faith then they are left to atone for their own sins and will, without exception, be unable to do so.

What will happen to him when he dies if he is unable to have faith and believe in God?"

He is then responsible to make atonement for his sins and will fail and be condemned to hell.

His response was as follows:

"The short answer is that God does not condemn anyone, but that when
given an informed decision, one chooses heaven or hell, accepts God or
rejects God.

This is utterly unbiblical. God is the Judge and all mankind will be judged by the Judge. Those whose sins have been atoned for by the work of Christ will be found worthy on the basis of Christ's obedience. Those whose sins were not atoned for will be found unworthy and will be condemned. Our place in the family of God is not the product of making a decision to accept God as our Lord. Accepting God as our Lord is the result of Him giving us faith.

We're responsible for searching for the truth, and according
to Scripture, Christ says seek and you shall find. If we choose not to
search we're culpable.

Yes we're responsible for seeking the Truth but we're culpable regardless of whether we search. The difference between the saved and the unsaved is whether Christ has made atonement for their sins.

but surely our choices, habits, and actions play a role in preparing for what is a final decision. At any rate, at that final moment, God will not condemn because of ignorance, but because of choice."

God is omnipotent and the idea that He could not or would not enlighten someone He intended to save is blasphemy. If someone is ignorant of God then it's because God decreed that they not be enlightened unto salvation. It wasn't an accident.

I was curious if this answer could be generally agreed upon by other Christians.

Absolutely not. It's unbiblical to say the least.

I have been unable to find a source from the bible itself that proves or substantiates this answer that I received.

That's because it's not a biblically based answer.

If it is not accepted I am also curious as to why this professors answer is incorrect, or possibly insufficient.

It's incorrect because it denies God's omnipotency. It operates off the assumption that God desires that someone be saved but does nothing to ensure that they are. God does not operate that way. The Bible says that whatsoever God purposes will come to pass (Job 42:2). If, as this "theology" professor contends, God intended to save someone but did not make Himself known to them then it speaks of a God whose actions, or lackthereof, contradict His desires. God is not divided.

P.S. On a sidenote, it bothers me a little that the bible could be silent on such an important topic. To humans, the possibly of life after death for eternity is an infinitely significant one and I do not understand why the bible seems to be silent on this issue (unless it is simply my ignorance of the bible). So many things in the bible seem to be written about ideas that are much less important than this one.

It isn't silent about it. It just isn't point blank. The proper way to understand Scripture is to first have a proper understanding of God. We cannot anthropomorphize Him and expect to get any coherency in our beliefs. If we acknowledge and submit to the view that God is omnipotent and whatsoever He purposes shall surely come to pass then the clear inference is that if something doesn't come to pass, e.g., the salvation of a person or their enlightenment to His truth, then it wasn't His desire for that to come to pass. As for "ignorance," I think that there are few that could claim such a thing. The created order that each of us is exposed to in every aspect of our lives from the magnificence of the world itself to the individual inhabitants, including ourselves, it would be ludicrous to act as if it isn't the work of a divine being. God's Word tells us that what may be known of Him, even unto the Godhead, is seen in creation so we are without excuse(Romans 1:19,20).

Hope that helps,
God bless

 

[dojuice]

.

 

[True_KeN]

Reformationist,

Thank you very much that has helped a lot. If I may ask, what denomination are you? Is "Reformationist" a denomination? If it is can you clue me in on some of the significant differences it (or whatever your denomination is) has with the other major denominations? Do you disagree with this professor because he is wrong within his own denomination (Catholicism) or because you feel his denomination is wrong?

Thanks for the help!

 

[Reformationist]

Reformationist,

Thank you very much that has helped a lot.

You're welcome.

If I may ask, what denomination are you?

I don't currently claim any particular denominational affiliation but my views are most closely related to Orthodox Presbyterianism.

Is "Reformationist" a denomination?

No, but "reformed" is a title given to churches who adhere to the teachings of a number of theologians, notably Luther, Calvin and Zwingli, among others.

If it is can you clue me in on some of the significant differences it (or whatever your denomination is) has with the other major denominations?

Well, that would take some doing but for the purpose of keeping this short you could do a search on John Calvin's teachings or reformed teachings or, if you want a concise list of some primary differences, search on TULIP as it relates to theology.

Do you disagree with this professor because he is wrong within his own denomination (Catholicism) or because you feel his denomination is wrong?

I'm sure that the professor's views accurately represent the teachings of the Catholic faith. I just happen to believe that the teachings of the Catholic church are unbiblical.

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

<staff edit>

As noble as I'm sure the intentions of this poster are, I must tell the opening poster that it is unfortunately an anthropocentric view of God's divine authority to claim that God would be unloving if He were to send a baby to hell. The problem is that this is clearly an emotional response based on the way we, as finite creatures, view the innocence of a baby. There is nothing in the Bible that indicates man is not culpable until a mythical "age of reason."

Again, I am not trying to offend anyone. I am merely relaying that the Bible must not be interpreted based on what we want it to say. It must be viewed through a proper understanding of who God has revealed Himself to be. I acknowledge that God is a loving God but "love" is not all that God is, nor does it supercede His other divine attributes such as holiness. Even God's wrath is glorifying to God.

God bless

 

[visionary]

As Jesus said, Forbid them not, for such is the kingdom of Heaven...I see this as a promise that all those babys that never had a change to live, will live in the Kingdom with God.

 

[TheMainException]

I have been told, and maybe I shouldn't just go on what others say, but this is what I have thought to be true...mentally retarded, those under the age of accountability and, of course, those who have asked Christ into their hearts, will go to heaven. All others are destined for hell...that is a clear cut answer for you as far as I know.

 

[TheMainException]

Edited.

 

[Rafael]

One of the reasons why I ask this question is because I am curious about the role ignorance plays in heaven and hell. I gave my brother a question to ask his theology professor from last year. My brother goes to Boston College, a catholic institution. My question was not originally in regards to ignorance itself. Here is the question I had asked:

"According to John 3:18, " 'He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.' According to the bible, what happens to a man that, through his own epistemically responsible reasoning, is unable to believe in the bible and the Christian God? What will happen to him when he dies if he is unable to have faith and believe in God?"

His response was as follows:

"The short answer is that God does not condemn anyone, but that when
given an informed decision, one chooses heaven or hell, accepts God or
rejects God. We're responsible for searching for the truth, and according
to Scripture, Christ says seek and you shall find. If we choose not to
search we're culpable. Whether this condemns us is another
question---what happens the other side of death is unknown, but surely our choices,
habits, and actions play a role in preparing for what is a final
decision. At any rate, at that final moment, God will not condemn because of
ignorance, but because of choice."

I was curious if this answer could be generally agreed upon by other Christians. I have been unable to find a source from the bible itself that proves or substantiates this answer that I received. While I think a theology professor would be a good citation nonetheless for the paper that I am writing, I would ideally like actual quotes from the bible or atleast to understand why this answer is accepted among Christians. If it is not accepted I am also curious as to why this professors answer is incorrect, or possibly insufficient.

P.S. On a sidenote, it bothers me a little that the bible could be silent on such an important topic. To humans, the possibly of life after death for eternity is an infinitely significant one and I do not understand why the bible seems to be silent on this issue (unless it is simply my ignorance of the bible). So many things in the bible seem to be written about ideas that are much less important than this one.

Thanks for any help!

Hello Ken. The Bible doesn't really focus on hell so much because that is not God's will that any perish. You will find that there is a huge controvery among Christians about salvation - whether it a man's choice or God's choice on who will be saved.

God is, of course, sovereign, and has the perfect right to destroy His own work in creation and start all over, but that is not what He did. We are told that He loved mankind enough to suffer the death and punishment for mankinds fall by going to the cross in the flesh of a man and stand in our place - bearing our shame, condemnation, and fallenness there. God chose loving mankind over destroying it by giving Himself to us in the flesh of a mortal man, yet still being God, in Jesus - the lamb of God.

Somehow, both exist - predestination and yet responsibility for one's own choice. I think there is a huge gap with perspective, between how God sees man and we see ourselves in relation to salvation, time, just about everything, as we look through a glass darkly when it comes to the spiritual. God's perspective stands outside of time while man is without the omniscient and all seeing ability of God. Many verses in the Bible point out to us predestination which would be God's sovereign perspective, but then we also see the verses that encourage us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling which is quoted from Philippians 2:12, and be in the humble position we should take as God's creatures when seeking God and finding truth about Him and His plan. Verses such as these are surely not fatalistic, but encourage us to chose the right and narrow path - not only with our lips, but with our actions and in truth. It's easy to say and not do.

The verse you have in John 3:16 does speak of God's love as a motive for salvation being made available to the world, and 2Peter 3:9 says, "The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise to return, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to perish, so he is giving more time for everyone to repent."

God says that He is love and that it isn't His will that any perish, so those who go to hell will go for many reasons, but one reason will not be that God is unjust or unloving. We should not limit God's love or attack His character and diminish His grace given to the world, IMO, and should believe the best for those that only God has the right to judge - His own creation.
Indeed, God has chosen us and we have not chosen Him. The Holy Spirit is like the wind and we do not know from where it comes or where it goes, but sense Its presence. God has an invitation in the Bible:

Re 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

God bless you as you seek Him

 

[shprdslamb7]

I respectfully disagree with the poster that thinks that babies will go to hell because they haven't chosen Jesus. Yes, I understand that opinion might be based on emotion but it is utterly ridiculous to believe God would condemn babies to hell. You must believe in predestination.

Here's some scripture for the OP:

Romans 2
12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

That would make me believe that if a person listens to their conscience but has never heard of Christ...they may be blanketed in under Christ.

My advice is to search the scriptures for yourself.

 

[Reformationist]

Yes, I understand that opinion might be based on emotion but it is utterly ridiculous to believe God would condemn babies to hell. You must believe in predestination.

I don't know who this was directed at but predestination is not a belief that purports that babies go to hell.

God bless