Who goes to hell?

[Vi]

okay, a long time ago, and apparently now adays too, people thought of this 3 tiered existence, up there somewhere on the third floor was heaven and we were in the middle on earth and hell was in the basement - down there.

well, I think of the expression: The kingdom of God is within you, and I realize that if we don't have a real grasp on what heaven and hell is... if we insist on seeing it as a place - not an existance, then maybe we don't under about "going to hell". It sounds so much like taking a bad vacation, going to a place... is it really like this?

I see it more like we are all there, in hell, destined to be there stay there always. That is in our nature, but when we receive salvation, we are removed from death, from the hell.

That's not the best explanation, but I'm trying to explain a concept that might help answer your question.

 

[Serapha]

if we insist on seeing it as a place - not an existance, then maybe we don't under about "going to hell". It sounds so much like taking a bad vacation, going to a place... is it really like this?

HI there!




I might important to not that "existance" will have be in "hell fire" unless there is a real, literal hell. Flames (fire) are not "imaginary" nor is a burning pit.



~serapha~

 

[reignman]

"
I think that judgeing the age and capacity for responsibility is beyond us."

amen

 

[mrnnfaber]

I know this question may get a lot of ambiguous answers and responses such as... there is no short answer to this question.

Jesus gave a short answer to this:
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. [Mat 12:31]

 

[lismore]

I know this question may get a lot of ambiguous answers and responses such as... there is no short answer to this question.

I assume that if someone believes and has faith in God and accepts God and accepts that Jesus Christ died for our sins then he will go to heaven and not hell. Are there any exceptions to this? If a baby dies will it go to hell? Can someone go to hell through ignorance of God? If someone is mentally retarded and cannot understand or apreciate the concept of God, will this person go to hell? I am not trying to debate the morality of any of these issues. I would just like as "clear cut" definition of who gets condemned to hell and who can go to heaven. I know ultimatey it is God's decision but what does the bible say on the matter and what are the commonly held beliefs in Christianity regarding what people are deserving of hell.

Thanks!!!

Those who tell God to push off will end up there, but all who call on the name of the Lord will be saved. You dont have to be wonderful to be saved you just have to accept God's friendship.

Babies cant tell God to push off so they cant end up in hell.#

GB

 

[Bonhoffer]

In my veiw GOD loves us SO much that only a persons stubborn heart will condemn them to Hell. It is after all "Gods will that no one should perish". However God will not overide our Free Will !

So basically if someone goes to Hell they have rejected Gods grace so therefore its their own fault !!

 

[Reformationist]

Oops. Didn't realize I had already answered this topic.


God bless

 

[GratefullyRedeemed]

Re: babies/children going to hell or not

The truth of the matter is that God does not address this in His word. Going back to Matthew 19:14 or Luke 18:16,17 - these verses in no way indicate that babies will go to heaven. They do say that 1) children are important to God, so don't forbid them from coming to Him, and 2) the kingdom of God consists of those who respond to Him with trust like that of a child.

We choose to either ignore hard truths that God puts forth, or if our own "theology" does not match up with how we "think" God is or should be, then we invent doctrine in order for us to feel better about God. This thing called "age of accountability" is not doctrine supported or built on Scripture at all. We don't like to think of people going to hell, we tend to think it unfair or unjust. But consider this: To think others' going to hell is unfair is to make the assumption that our salvation is fair. And frankly, we all deserve hell, so the fact that God chooses anyone is marvelous in itself!

God is holy. He is in heaven and He does what He pleases.

His overriding will is His glory. Everything in this universe, including mankind, was created for His pleasure, His purpose, His glory. It is for His great namesake that anything exists. The chief end of God is to glorify God. He stands supreme at the center of His won affections. And for this reason, He is an inexhaustible fountain of grace! He is merciful and loving. Trust Him.

 

[ElizabethHope]

From my personal journey for an answer to this question, it makes sense to me that it is more than just "not being able" to accept God and Jesus as your personal savior. I think that it would make sense if it was an actual "rejection" to faith. It would seem, to my very human and mortal mind, very unmerciful if babies and people who have never heard of Christ to be sent to hell just because they have never been given a chance to know God. Therefore it seems reasonable to think it is more the rejection of God and faith that gets you a one way ticket, rather than merely missing the opportunity.

<><

 

[Bokhard]

The above post (by ElizabethHope) should have been posted under my name.... my girlfriend had logged onto the site last under her name.

Anyways, to elaborate on my position, my hypothetical situation is one put forth to illustrate, say, a group of people who live untouched by western civilization. For instance, take native americans before europeans explored north america. There was a huge population of people who, I'm guessing, had no way of knowing about Jesus. Did all these people die and go to hell?

I would have to say that as a result of reading the Bible, it is made clear that the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ. For the modern day, and even for everyone in biblical times who had been given the opportunity to hear about Jesus, it is very cut and dry.

I think a definite and positive answer is unattainable to we humans. The only thing we can do is offer these people, who have never been given the chance to hear about Jesus Christ, into the arms of our loving God.

<><

 

[Reformationist]

Re: babies/children going to hell or not

The truth of the matter is that God does not address this in His word. Going back to Matthew 19:14 or Luke 18:16,17 - these verses in no way indicate that babies will go to heaven. They do say that 1) children are important to God, so don't forbid them from coming to Him, and 2) the kingdom of God consists of those who respond to Him with trust like that of a child.

We choose to either ignore hard truths that God puts forth, or if our own "theology" does not match up with how we "think" God is or should be, then we invent doctrine in order for us to feel better about God. This thing called "age of accountability" is not doctrine supported or built on Scripture at all. We don't like to think of people going to hell, we tend to think it unfair or unjust. But consider this: To think others' going to hell is unfair is to make the assumption that our salvation is fair. And frankly, we all deserve hell, so the fact that God chooses anyone is marvelous in itself!

God is holy. He is in heaven and He does what He pleases.

His overriding will is His glory. Everything in this universe, including mankind, was created for His pleasure, His purpose, His glory. It is for His great namesake that anything exists. The chief end of God is to glorify God. He stands supreme at the center of His won affections. And for this reason, He is an inexhaustible fountain of grace! He is merciful and loving. Trust Him.

Wonderful, God centered post GratefullyRedeemed. That was very edifying to me. Thank you for sharing.

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

The above post (by ElizabethHope) should have been posted under my name.... my girlfriend had logged onto the site last under her name.

Anyways, to elaborate on my position, my hypothetical situation is one put forth to illustrate, say, a group of people who live untouched by western civilization. For instance, take native americans before europeans explored north america. There was a huge population of people who, I'm guessing, had no way of knowing about Jesus. Did all these people die and go to hell?

I would have to say that as a result of reading the Bible, it is made clear that the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ. For the modern day, and even for everyone in biblical times who had been given the opportunity to hear about Jesus, it is very cut and dry.

I think a definite and positive answer is unattainable to we humans. The only thing we can do is offer these people, who have never been given the chance to hear about Jesus Christ, into the arms of our loving God.

<><

Chance. You used this word a few times in those two posts. There is no such thing as chance. Chance never saved anyone nor is chance the reason anyone is saved. Not one single person. The only way into Heaven is not through Jesus, it's because of Jesus. You, as a Lutheran, are taught that no one deserves the grace of salvation. You are taught that if God, in His divine wisdom and authoritative perrogative, deems it pleasing to salvitically reveal Himself to someone then those to whom He does not reveal Himself in that way have no right to call foul.

We who are saved are not saved because of the "opportunity" to hear the Gospel. We are saved because God has sovereignly governed our life in such a way that we would not only be exposed to the Gospel but trust in it as the very word of salvation.

History is controlled by God. Don't you think if God had wanted He could have governed His creation so that the Native Americans who never heard the Gospel would have heard it? As I said before, the fact that He chose to not do this does not reveal that there is an alternate path to glory or that God just dropped the ball. He made an active choice to not reveal Himself to certain people, like many of the Native Americans for example. He, in His divine wisdom, decreed that they would not come to a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. This was not an accident. There are no accidents with God. His invisible hand moves the course of history as He has deemed glorifying.

God bless

 

[Living4JC]

My idea on the children who can not yet understand God is this...
God create us and he is with us...it is only when we are born are live that we break away from Him, and sin. But Jesus died for us, so that we can return, and gain life.
Babies, who have not yet had that chance to break away, and find Jesus...are still with God...if you understand me...they have not yet broken away..
I'm confusing myself >.<

 

[GratefullyRedeemed]

My idea on the children who can not yet understand God is this...
God create us and he is with us...it is only when we are born are live that we break away from Him, and sin. But Jesus died for us, so that we can return, and gain life.
Babies, who have not yet had that chance to break away, and find Jesus...are still with God...if you understand me...they have not yet broken away..
I'm confusing myself >.<

Living4JC, you stated, your idea is that...

What does God say about it? B/C really, only what He says matters. He is loving, and He is merciful, to be sure, but Scripture does not address the issue. So we must trust Him.

 

[Bokhard]

If the Bible does not directly state the answer, then all we have to go on is "our idea." Of course we dont' know for sure, but it would make sense to believe our God-given minds in what makes most sense, knowing that, as you stated, God is loving and merciful.

This doesn't affect our personal salvation at all, it is merely an inferrence of how we believe God would act in this situation. Is it 100% true? Probably not. If we believe it still, and it is not 100% true, does it affect salvation? I don't think so. Does it help us get over a spiritual stumbling block in our minds? I think it can help.

Maybe im totally off base in my interpretation. I'm a relatively new Christian, so feel free to comment!

<><

 

[Beloved Child]

I know this question may get a lot of ambiguous answers and responses such as... there is no short answer to this question.

I assume that if someone believes and has faith in God and accepts God and accepts that Jesus Christ died for our sins then he will go to heaven and not hell. Are there any exceptions to this? If a baby dies will it go to hell? Can someone go to hell through ignorance of God? If someone is mentally retarded and cannot understand or apreciate the concept of God, will this person go to hell? I am not trying to debate the morality of any of these issues. I would just like as "clear cut" definition of who gets condemned to hell and who can go to heaven. I know ultimatey it is God's decision but what does the bible say on the matter and what are the commonly held beliefs in Christianity regarding what people are deserving of hell.

Thanks!!!

A Jewish boy becomes a man after he reached his 12th or 13th year of age (Bar Mitzvah, Jewish type of confirmation). I'm not really sure on that, but I think from this age on God expected boys and girls to be able to consciously choose whether they wanted to believe in God or reject Him. So, I guess if children die before they become 13, they will get to heaven, including babies, of course.
I don't know whether this counts for the mentally disabled people, too... but I'd say yes here. If we want to be nitpicking, I can expand my "theories" a little more! Let's say the person was born healthy, but after 6 years became mentally disabled. After another 30 years, that person dies at the age of 36. He gets to heaven because He didn't have a chance of choosing what to believe. And then there's another person who was born healthy and becomes mentally disabled at the age of 30. Now, if he was a Christian before he died, he gets to heaven because he accepted Christ before he became disabled. But maybe in his disability he was still able to accuse God of his circumstances. Then, I guess, God wouldn't accept that person in heaven. But we don't know this way nor the other..Only God knows... and this brings me to the point why I actually think that we won't most probably ever know whether God will receive babies and disabled people in heaven. It's his decision alone.

 

[Reformationist]

If the Bible does not directly state the answer, then all we have to go on is "our idea." Of course we dont' know for sure, but it would make sense to believe our God-given minds in what makes most sense, knowing that, as you stated, God is loving and merciful.

No. After the Fall our minds are filled with deceitful thoughts. If the Gospel does not reveal it to us then we should take no definitive stance on moral issues. Trusting our fallen minds is a very dangerous thing to do, especially when it relates to the things of God that He has not revealed to us.

This doesn't affect our personal salvation at all, it is merely an inferrence of how we believe God would act in this situation. Is it 100% true? Probably not. If we believe it still, and it is not 100% true, does it affect salvation? I don't think so. Does it help us get over a spiritual stumbling block in our minds? I think it can help.

True enough. However, "getting over" a spiritual stumbling block for the wrong reasons is not really getting over it.

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

A Jewish boy becomes a man after he reached his 12th or 13th year of age (Bar Mitzvah, Jewish type of confirmation). I'm not really sure on that, but I think from this age on God expected boys and girls to be able to consciously choose whether they wanted to believe in God or reject Him. So, I guess if children die before they become 13, they will get to heaven, including babies, of course.
I don't know whether this counts for the mentally disabled people, too... but I'd say yes here. If we want to be nitpicking, I can expand my "theories" a little more! Let's say the person was born healthy, but after 6 years became mentally disabled. After another 30 years, that person dies at the age of 36. He gets to heaven because He didn't have a chance of choosing what to believe. And then there's another person who was born healthy and becomes mentally disabled at the age of 30. Now, if he was a Christian before he died, he gets to heaven because he accepted Christ before he became disabled. But maybe in his disability he was still able to accuse God of his circumstances. Then, I guess, God wouldn't accept that person in heaven.

No offense but there is not one biblically based statement in the above quoted portion of your post.

But we don't know this way nor the other..Only God knows... and this brings me to the point why I actually think that we won't most probably ever know whether God will receive babies and disabled people in heaven. It's his decision alone.

This, however, is biblically based.

Goe bless

 

[Beloved Child]

No offense but there is not one biblically based statement in the above quoted portion of your post.



Goe bless

That's why I said I'm not really sure on that. But you're right, the Bible doesn't refer to that. I recall I once heard someone mention it that way. I mean, why not? Maybe God does really judge upon that, we can't prove otherwise. But as I said, we won't know whether God welcomes babies in heaven until we will stand before His throne ourselves one day. Honestly, it would make me a little sad to know if it were the truth that God doesn't let babies get into heaven. But He knows what He does, and it's always good, no matter what we think of it. You know, sometimes I think it's really a blessing not to know anything about how God deals with certain issues.

 

[Reformationist]

That's why I said I'm not really sure on that. But you're right, the Bible doesn't refer to that.

I know. I was just picking at you.

Honestly, it would make me a little sad to know if it were the truth that God doesn't let babies get into heaven.

I know this isn't a debate forum so pardon me if I sound like I'm debating. I admire the loving spirit that such thoughts are spawned from. I, myself, have three children and love them dearly. I'm under no delusion that they're innocent but I pray that the Lord has mercy on them.

I think the biggest reason so many people would say what you've said here is that we, as finite beings, have no way of seeing beyond the external. We cannot see the motivations of a person's heart. I will say that wherever God sends babies it is the righteous place for them to go. I think one of the reasons many people, myself included, would be sad about babies going to hell is that we see babies as innocent creations. That doesn't mean they are. That's just how we see them.

But He knows what He does, and it's always good, no matter what we think of it. You know, sometimes I think it's really a blessing not to know anything about how God deals with certain issues.

Amen sister, amen.

God bless