Who Goes To Hell?

Saint Steven · May 1, 2020

ViaCrucis said:
I never said anything about eternal conscious torment with no hope to escape.

But the general position of the Church has been that "going" to hell isn't about God sending anyone to hell, but rather hell being born out of choice.

No, but "eternal conscious torment" is the standard definition.

I would contend that no one chooses to go to hell. They are sent there. (assuming there is a hell) If a person were to actually choose to go to hell, how would they get there? No way to get there on our own. One must be put there. The church position is to shift the blame onto the victim.

I liked the poem though.

Zao is life · May 1, 2020

JacksBratt said:
Well done.. both times...

Very badly done, IMO - unless you approve of snatching interpretations of hades out of the air?

Saint Steven · May 1, 2020

JacksBratt said:
Did God want people to deny Christ?

Yes.

Saint Steven · May 1, 2020

JacksBratt said:
Cause.. to put it bluntly... there may not be any atheists in a fox hole.. but there are 100% no atheists on the other side of the grave...

Why would you toss believers into hell?

Saint Steven · May 1, 2020

JacksBratt said:
If I have a starving man and I put some soup in front of him.. give him a chair, a table and a spoon.. and he doesn't eat.... Who is failing?

You are. You didn't manage to help him at all.
The fact that he isn't eating should tell you that.

Hieronymus · May 1, 2020

ViaCrucis said:
If "the unholy can not be in the Presence of God" then the Incarnation is impossible.

-CryptoLutheran

But it was possible, so where did you go wrong in your reasoning?

JacksBratt · May 1, 2020

Saint Steven said:
I would contend that no one chooses to go to hell.

Well, there's your first assumption that is wrong.

Many are told that Jesus is the only way to the Father... Many are told that they need Christ as their savior...

And still... many refuse.. that's their choice.. that's choosing to go to hell.

Saint Steven said:
They are sent there.

We are all going there as our primary destination.

If you want a ticket upgrade.. You just ask.

Saint Steven said:
If a person were to actually choose to go to hell, how would they get there?

It's the same vehicle as the one you take when you go to heaven... All you have to do is die a physical earthly death..

Saint Steven said:
No way to get there on our own.

Actually, that's the only way you go there... on your own....

Heaven is the place that you cannot get to on your own.. In fact, it's impossible, on your own power and ability, to get to heaven.

Saint Steven said:
One must be put there. The church position is to shift the blame onto the victim.

So, who should the blame be placed on to?

See, that's just it.. It's your own fault that you go there.. Yet, you want to put the blame on God..

Well, "newsflash".. Christ did take the responsibilities for your sins... He took the blame.. even though it was not His fault..

Very ironic that you should say that though.[/quote]

JacksBratt · May 1, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Yes.

Really?

God wanted people to deny Christ.... Hmmm

Can you back that up with scripture.. even one verse?

And not some weird never heard of translation.. one that is accepted... maybe even with the Hebrew or Greek......

JacksBratt · May 1, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Why would you toss believers into hell?

Well.... let's see.. Satan believes, the fallen angels believe, the demons believe....

What about those believers?

But, ya, I know... you mean earthly believers...

I don't think that they are going to hell... Well very few believe and reject Christ.. But there are some...Sully Erna, Ash Costello, Aleister Crowley, Anto LaVey, Christian Bale... It's a relatively short list compared to others.. but very long list in reality.

JacksBratt · May 1, 2020

Saint Steven said:
You are. You didn't manage to help him at all.
The fact that he isn't eating should tell you that.

Oh, so we should do everything for them?
Ah.. I see...

OK.. lets change my little story and add this..

So, I picked up the spoon, dipped it in the soup and lifted it to his mouth.... and he pursed his lips and turned his head away.

martymonster · May 1, 2020

Saint Steven said:
The post numbers (#36 and #38) indicate a hidden post in between. (#37)

Yeah, didn't even look at the numbers.

Behold · May 1, 2020

boxman144 said:
Can listening to certain music take you to Hell? Can you be a believer in Christ, and still go to Hell? Title says all that needs to be said, ciao.

boxman144

Being A Christ Rejector. = Hell
Noone else.

Der Alte · May 1, 2020

Fullness of the Gentiles said:
Very badly done, IMO - unless you approve of snatching interpretations of hades out of the air?

Very bad interpretation /understanding of my post. I pulled nothing out of the air. I presented credible, verifiable, historical evidence, i.e. the Jewish Encyclopedia, the Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud, supporting a belief by the Jews, in Israel, before and during the time of Jesus, in a place of eternal, everlasting, unending etc. fiery punishment.
.....The Jews in OT times called that place both sheol and Ge hinnom. When the OT was translated into Greek 225BC, sheol was translated as hades and Ge Hinnom was translated as Gehenna. So when Jews wrote the NT both hades and Gehenna referred to that place fiery punishment which in English is called hell.
.....And I also provided archaeological evidence that Gehenna was never an constantly burning trash dump. There was such a dump outside Jerusalem it was the Kidron valley which was south of the temple and Gehenna valley.

Saint Steven · May 1, 2020

JacksBratt said:
So, I picked up the spoon, dipped it in the soup and lifted it to his mouth.... and he pursed his lips and turned his head away.

Seems you failed to win his trust. He thinks you are trying to poison him. - lol

Maybe this is why the church has failed as well.
1) We assume someone is starving.
2) So we set up a meal for them.
3) We force them into a chair and put food in front of them.
4) That doesn't work, so we try to spoon feed them.

JacksBratt · May 1, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Seems you failed to win his trust. He thinks you are trying to poison him. - lol

Maybe this is why the church has failed as well.
1) We assume someone is starving.
2) So we set up a meal for them.
3) We force them into a chair and put food in front of them.
4) That doesn't work, so we try to spoon feed them.

You really do pick at insignificant things that matter not... You refuse to accept the fact that this is absolutely what many people do.. They outright refuse Christ, the gospel, salvation and even the existence of God...

Anyway.. I'll show your errors..

1/ My scenario... the man, for a fact.. was starving. Don't add things that aren't there.
2/ True
3/ He sits down willingly... My scenario.. don't add things that are not implied.
4/ Yep.. you said that I didn't help him enough.. so.. I'm offering to spoon feed him...

I notice that you missed the part where he pursed his lips and turned his head away.

Der Alte · May 1, 2020

Several years ago I was watching a holiday special, Christmas or Easter, I don't remember. The camera was following some tourists in Jerusalem. They attempted to enter one of the "Holy" locations. They were blocked by a Muslim. One of them said "We only want to worship God." The Muslim said "GD your god to hell." How will God change that man's heart and mind and save him after death?
And why doesn't He do it in this life and keep the man from being punished for some shorter or longer period?

Saint Steven · May 1, 2020

JacksBratt said:
Anyway.. I'll show your errors..

1/ My scenario... the man, for a fact.. was starving. Don't add things that aren't there.
2/ True
3/ He sits down willingly... My scenario.. don't add things that are not implied.
4/ Yep.. you said that I didn't help him enough.. so.. I'm offering to spoon feed him...

I notice that you missed the part where he pursed his lips and turned his head away.

I told you what I saw. No one likes to play with someone that stacks the deck.

agapelove · May 1, 2020

According to scripture, everybody goes to hell.

Mark 9:48-50 where "the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched." Everyone will be salted with fire. Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? Have salt among yourselves, and be at peace with each other.

Or to put it another way, everybody goes THROUGH hell. Whether it is during this life or another, "hell" is what prepares you to stand confidently in the presence of God. It is the unquenchable fire that purifies you of all sin.

Might I argue that hell is good? It is actually necessary? Or maybe that is way too much optimism.

Saint Steven · May 1, 2020

JacksBratt said:
You really do pick at insignificant things that matter not... You refuse to accept the fact that this is absolutely what many people do.. They outright refuse Christ, the gospel, salvation and even the existence of God...

I would agree that this happens in some cases. That's SOME cases...
However, you want to hang this rejection charge on EVERYONE that you consider "lost".
It simply isn't so.

The vast majority of people that you consider "lost" throughout history have never even heard the name of Jesus Christ. And having NEVER heard of him could not have possibly rejected him. The current population of China is 1.4 billion. How many have rejected Christ?

Are you really okay with dumping countless billions of Chinese who have never even heard of Christ directly into hell?

martymonster · May 1, 2020

Behold said:
Being A Christ Rejector. = Hell
Noone else.

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Since the goats in this parable, are clearly Christians, care to explain how it's only those who reject Christ, who are in danger?

Who Goes To Hell?

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This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

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