Who gets cast into the everlasting lake of fire?

devin553344 · Oct 2, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
Please stop trying to make this personal and stick with what the text actually says.
You said before that all people go to the Lake of Fire. I have shown that by the context, this is simply not true. There are people that enter the New Earth.

I'm not making this personal you are. You say sinners are going to the lake of fire. How personal is that? As if you can judge them all.

devin553344 · Oct 2, 2019

The truth is that no human can decide who goes to the lake of fire. You're just a human. God will reserve that right for himself. No matter what you quote or say! There are many that some feel belong in the lake of fire that won't be there. Luke 18:9-14

devin553344 · Oct 2, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
Matthew 7:23 is one example. Jesus said to certain believers who did wonderful works in his name to depart from Him because they also worked iniquity. Iniquity is sin. So yes. They did good works, but they also worked some kind of sin, as well. This is why Jesus told them to depart from Him. In fact, the WHOLE chapter supports this plain reading of this verse, as well. Matthew 7:26-27 says that the person who does not do what He says they are a like a fool who built their house upon the sand and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house. In Matthew 7:21, Jesus says that not everyone who says unto Him "Lord, Lord" will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but he that does the will of the Father. This means that just crying out to God alone that one is a sinner is not the qualification alone. There needs to be something more. To do the will of the Father. 1 Thessalonians 4:3 says God's will is our Sanctification (i.e. holy living).

In fact, God's Word tells us to be ye holy, as I am holy.
Why would God's Word tell us to do something that is impossible?
Did not Jesus say that with God all things are possible?

So all those who go to hell is spelled out in the bible. Then we have the letter of the law. And we can follow the law to know who goes to hell? The bible warns us about that though. didn't you notice that? The letter of the law condems all?

Galatians 3:11-13

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Bible Highlighter · Oct 2, 2019

devin553344 said:
I believe all are sinners and that Jesus is judge and will decide who goes to the lake of fire and who doesn't.

So a person who rejects Christ like an atheist should not be evangelized or saved?
By calling a person to salvation, judgment in some form is taking place. What exactly are they being saved from?

devin553344 · Oct 2, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
So a person who rejects Christ like an atheist should not be evangelized or saved?
By calling a person to salvation, judgment in some form is taking place. What exactly are they being saved from?

Come on that's really what you're going to decline to.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 2, 2019

devin553344 said:
So all those who go to hell is spelled out in the bible. Then we have the letter of the law. And we can follow the law to know who goes to hell? The bible warns us about that though. didn't you notice that? The letter of the law condems all?

Galatians 3:11-13

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

What Law is Paul talking about?
Most Eternal Security proponents and or Belief Alone proponents I have talked with think this passage is referring to all forms of Law, but the context suggests that it is referring to the Old Testament Law of Moses (the 613 laws as a whole) and not the commands given to us by Jesus and His followers.

Galatians 3:10 says, "written in the book of the law."

At the time of Paul's writing of Galatians, this would have been the Torah and not NT Scripture.

Galatians 3:17 says, "the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect."

The Law of Moses (the 613) came 430 after the promise of Abraham. So this is the context of the kind of Law that Paul is talking about here.

In fact, why was Paul condemning the idea of obeying the Old Law?

3 "But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage" (Galatians 2:3-4).

Meaning, there were certain Jews who were trying to convince certain Christians into thinking they had to be circumcised in order to be saved instead of coming to Jesus as one's source of being Initially and Ultimately Saved. These Jews wanted these Christians to think that "circumcision" was the entrance gate to salvation and it was the grounds to which they stand upon as being a child of God.

Galatians 5:2 says, “Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.”
Galatians 5:6 says, “For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.”

Again, you can read about this heresy of "Circumcision Salvationism" more clearly at the Jerusalem council:

Acts of the Apostles 15:1 says, “And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.”
Acts of the Apostles 15:5 says, But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”
Acts of the Apostles 15:24 says, “Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”

This was the heresy Paul was fighting against. For if a person is seeking to be saved by circumcision or the Old Law (that is no more), they are seeking to be justified by the Law (i.e. the Law of Moses or the 613 laws as a whole or contract). Paul was not against the words of Jesus and the doctrine according to godliness (See: 1 Timothy 6:3-4).

Bible Highlighter · Oct 2, 2019

devin553344 said:
Come on that's really what you're going to decline to.

One cannot have salvation if a person is not lost so as to be saved. The Bible talks about the saved and the lost. This is why this thread was created. To discuss the WHO are those who are cast into the Lake of Fire. To discuss such things does not mean we are trying to make it personal. God's Word is true regardless of any one person's life here.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 2, 2019

devin553344 said:
The truth is that no human can decide who goes to the lake of fire. You're just a human. God will reserve that right for himself. No matter what you quote or say! There are many that some feel belong in the lake of fire that won't be there. Luke 18:9-14

Right, God's Word decides who goes to the Lake of Fire. It says "all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire." (Revelation 21:8). It does not say "some liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire" and neither does John mention another group of liars that are going to enter God's kingdom.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 2, 2019

devin553344 said:
The truth is that no human can decide who goes to the lake of fire.

So then a believer cannot say the atheist who rejects God is not saved. So a believer in this instance could not judge. The believer could not even silently judge or think that others are not saved (Which is a form of judgment).

Bible Highlighter · Oct 2, 2019

Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. When Jesus died upon the cross, the temple veil was torn from top to bottom. This means the laws on the animal sacrifices and the law on the priesthood was no more. Jesus said, "And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins." (Matthew 26:27-28). In other words, Jesus was saying that His shed blood on the cross will be the start of the New Covenant or New Testament. This means the Old Law (or the Old Covenant) is no more.

So when Paul talks about the "Law" or "works" generically in a negative way, he is referring to the Old Law and not all laws in general. For Paul says in 1 Timothy 6:3-4,

"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing," (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

If Paul was not in agreement with the doctrine according to godliness and or speaking in line with the words of Jesus, he would be condemning himself by his own words here in 1 Timothy 6:3-4.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 2, 2019

In Revelation 21:8 it says, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

Many Belief Alone Proponents and or Eternal Security Proponents think Revelation 21:8 is referring exclusively to the lost who rejected Christ in this life. But it would be redundant of Revelation 21:8 to say that "unbelieving" then if it is implied that the whole verse is referring to those who are "unbelieving." This means that whether or not a person is believing or unbelieving, the other sins are cause for any person (believer or unbeliever) can be cast into the Lake of Fire; Especially when it says "ALL liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." (Revelation 21:8).

Besides, we know that there are those who profess to do wonderful works in Christ's name and yet they are told to depart from Jesus because they worked iniquity in Matthew 7:23. So obviously they worked some form of sin that is mentioned in Revelation 21:8.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 2, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
In Revelation 21:8 it says, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

Many Belief Alone Proponents and or Eternal Security Proponents think Revelation 21:8 is referring exclusively to the lost who rejected Christ in this life. But it would be redundant of Revelation 21:8 to say that "unbelieving" then if it is implied that the whole verse is referring to those who are "unbelieving." This means that whether or not a person is believing or unbelieving, the other sins are cause for any person (believer or unbeliever) can be cast into the Lake of Fire; Especially when it says "ALL liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." (Revelation 21:8).

Besides, we know that there are those who profess to do wonderful works in Christ's name and yet they are told to depart from Jesus because they worked iniquity in Matthew 7:23. So obviously they worked some form of sin that is mentioned in Revelation 21:8.

In other words, lets substitute the word "cats" for the word "unbelieving" in Revelation 21:8 and then lets say that the rest of the sins mentioned are things that cats do like "meowing," "scratching," "pooping in a litter-box," and "eating cat food," etc. It would be redundant information to say that "cats" are not going to make it into God's Kingdom if you also describe the condemnation of the things that cats do. By definition, the very fact of being a cat would include those activities and it would be redundant information. We know that just being an unbeliever in many cases includes the sins mentioned in Revelation 21:8. Why say to the unbeliever about how these sins can destroy them if all they have to do is simply believe on Jesus and not worry about these kinds of sins anymore? Revelation 21:8 suggests that just doing these sins is enough of a reason to go into the Lake of Fire. It does not say that simply believing in Jesus excludes a person from the Lake of Fire here.

FineLinen · Oct 2, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
One cannot have salvation if a person is not lost so as to be saved. The Bible talks about the saved and the lost. This is why this thread was created. To discuss the WHO are those who are cast into the Lake of Fire. To discuss such things does not mean we are trying to make it personal. God's Word is true regardless of any one person's life here.

The fact is we are lost, not as a result of wrong doing, but as a result of being born a sinner, IOW by wrong being.

Can you define for us, our God the consuming fire & the Lake that is rooted in Theos?

As we are required to love our enemies, may we not safely infer that God loves His enemies? (Matt. 5:44)
If God loves His enemies, will He punish them more than will be for their good?
Would endless punishment be for the good of any being?
As God loves His friends, if He loves His enemies also, are not all mankind the objects of His love?
If God loves those only who love Him, what better is He than the sinner? (Luke 6:32-33)
As "love thinketh no evil," can God design the ultimate evil of a single soul? (1 Cor. 13:5)
As "love worketh no ill," can God inflict, or cause, or allow to be inflicted, an endless ill? (Rom. 13:10)
As we are forbidden to be overcome by evil, can we safely suppose that God will be overcome by evil? (Rom. 12:21)
Would not the infliction of endless punishment prove that God HAD been overcome by evil?
If man does wrong in returning evil for evil, would not God do wrong if He was to do the sam

FineLinen · Oct 2, 2019

BCsenior said:
Matthew 25:33-46 “And He (the Son of Man) will set the sheep on His right hand,
but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on His right hand,
‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you
from the foundation of the world” … Then He will also say to those on the left hand,
‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

The foundation for everlasting punishment=

I was hungry and you gave Me no meat.
I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink:
I was a stranger and you took Me not in.
I was naked and you did not clothe Me.
I was in prison and you did not visit Me.

Upon this foundation rests the doctrine of “everlasting punishment”, the cornerstone text for the same.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 2, 2019

FineLinen said:
The fact is we are lost, not as a result of wrong doing, but as a result of being born a sinner, IOW by wrong being.

Can you define for us, our God the consuming fire & the Lake that is rooted in Theos?

As we are required to love our enemies, may we not safely infer that God loves His enemies? (Matt. 5:44)

If God loves His enemies, will He punish them more than will be for their good?

Would endless punishment be for the good of any being?

As God loves His friends, if He loves His enemies also, are not all mankind the objects of His love?

If God loves those only who love Him, what better is He than the sinner? (Luke 6:32-33)

As "love thinketh no evil," can God design the ultimate evil of a single soul? (1 Cor. 13:5)

As "love worketh no ill," can God inflict, or cause, or allow to be inflicted, an endless ill? (Rom. 13:10)

As we are forbidden to be overcome by evil, can we safely suppose that God will be overcome by evil? (Rom. 12:21)

Would not the infliction of endless punishment prove that God HAD been overcome by evil?

If man does wrong in returning evil for evil, would not God do wrong if He was to do the sam

Unless you recently changed your view on Soteriology or I have you confused with somebody else, I am not interested in debating against Universalism at this time.

BNR32FAN · Oct 2, 2019

devin553344 said:
So all those who go to hell is spelled out in the bible. Then we have the letter of the law. And we can follow the law to know who goes to hell? The bible warns us about that though. didn't you notice that? The letter of the law condems all?

Galatians 3:11-13

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

The Bible does tell us who will burn in the lake of fire. Those who do not repent and do not abide in Christ will burn in the lake of fire.

BNR32FAN · Oct 2, 2019

FineLinen said:
The foundation for everlasting punishment=

I was hungry and you gave Me no meat.

I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink:

I was a stranger and you took Me not in.

I was naked and you did not clothe Me.

I was in prison and you did not visit Me.

Upon this foundation rests the doctrine of “everlasting punishment”, the cornerstone text for the same.

What do these examples have in common? I would say that these people were not condemned for their action but moreso by their lack of love for others. I believe that is the root cause of their condemnation.

BNR32FAN · Oct 2, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
Unless you recently changed your view on Soteriology or I have you confused with somebody else, I am not interested in debating against Universalism at this time.

Luke 12:10 pretty much closes the door on universalism.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 2, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
In Revelation 21:8 it says, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

Many Belief Alone Proponents and or Eternal Security Proponents think Revelation 21:8 is referring exclusively to the lost who rejected Christ in this life. But it would be redundant of Revelation 21:8 to say that "unbelieving" then if it is implied that the whole verse is referring to those who are "unbelieving." This means that whether or not a person is believing or unbelieving, the other sins are cause for any person (believer or unbeliever) can be cast into the Lake of Fire; Especially when it says "ALL liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." (Revelation 21:8).

Besides, we know that there are those who profess to do wonderful works in Christ's name and yet they are told to depart from Jesus because they worked iniquity in Matthew 7:23. So obviously they worked some form of sin that is mentioned in Revelation 21:8.

For me it sounds like a stretch beyond the text to suggest that Revelation 21:8 is exclusively talking to Christ rejecters alone. Paul says there are those who preach another Jesus and another gospel. Can another Jesus and another gospel save? Surely not. This fact, also coupled with the truth that those who did good works in Christ's name are told to depart from Christ because they worked iniquity (sin) (Matthew 7:23) is reason enough to show that it does not matter if one is a believer or not in regards to Revelation 21:8. If one does those kinds of sins, they are going to be cast into the Lake of Fire. That is how I understand this verse to plainly mean. If Belief Alone-ism was true (Whereby a person can sin and still be saved), then John would have written an exception clause of a different group of sinners who are saved by having a belief alone on Jesus.

FineLinen · Oct 2, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
Unless you recently changed your view on Soteriology or I have you confused with somebody else, I am not interested in debating against Universalism at this time.

Dear B.H. I am not asking you to debate the Restitution of all things.

Your question is clear, can you define the difference between the Lake of Theos and our God the consuming fire? Can you?

Who gets cast into the everlasting lake of fire?

I believe in the Resurrection

I believe in the Resurrection

I believe in the Resurrection

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

I believe in the Resurrection

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Senior Veteran

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

He’s a Way of life

He’s a Way of life

He’s a Way of life

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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