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Can be and will or done are very different things. If you believe in annihiliation you may take comfort. I personally think that doctrine if believed in reality encourages the wicked to party hearty because it will really be over. So where is the motivation to do different?
I have no clue as to why eternal life means unending bliss while eternal punishment is for a period of time. Can you explaing the difference in the word eternal?
And last time I checked man is also a soul which is housed in the flesh and blood mud hut.The soul is the only part of man that won't be destroyed.
Did you read the part I changed to black and enlarged? So do you believe the Bible? It is your quote, not one from me. It mentions nothing about destrroying the soul. Just says it is possible.that's not what the bible says:
Matthew 10:28(NKJV)
28... But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
the word "destroy" in this verse is :
G622 (from strong's)
ἀπόλλυμι
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively:destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
so, once again, are we to believe from scratch or the bible?
Did you read the part I changed to black and enlarged? So do you believe the Bible? It is your quote, not one from me. It mentions nothing about destrroying the soul. Just says it is possible.
Beats me. you have an answer?been trying to have one with you, but you won't answer 98% of my questions so i can better understand where you are coming from.
i've asked you repeatedly "Who declared Whom?" and haven't heard from you yet.
John 1:18(NKJV)
18No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
John 17:25-26(NKJV)
25O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me.
26And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.
why would Jesus have to declare the Father?
Do you have a verse that states or implies they will be consumed by fire?i know that some are going to burn up and be destroyed in the fire, however, you said that the soul is the only part of man that won't be destroyed.
in other words, you say it's possible, but the bible says this is going to happen.
help me to understand what you mean.
Do you have a verse that states or implies they will be consumed by fire?
Ezk.18:4 “ Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father As well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die. And again in verse 20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
Malachi 4 speaks to the time when the wicked shall be destroyed.
1“For behold, the day is coming, Burning like an oven, And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up,” “That will leave them neither root nor branch. [That is total annihilation] Now read verse 3.
“You shall trample the wicked, For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
On the day that I do this,” Says the LORD of hosts.
Jesus speaks of this event in Mat.25:32-33,41 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Verse 41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire ...We just read what happens when these wicked souls/people end up in this fire Mal.4
In Revelation 20:6 we read that “Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power... So the second death does have power over some. That second death is forever, eternal, ETERNAL DEATH, eternal punish-MENT; NOT eternal punish-ING.
There is only one being that would perpetuate the lie that God would torment people forever for one short life time of sin. That may be the way Satan would do things if he was in charge, but thank God Satan is not in charge, God is. Eternal punishing is Satan’s fate and he would like us to think it is our fate too.
Beats me. you have an answer?
I suppose you think this means that it was Jesus that Moses spoke to. If that is so then what does Moses mean in Ex 33:20? If you're following the discussion you will read this - OK so it appears to me that if Moses is addressing God the Father and you say that someone elses answers then Moses again addresses God the Father. Who is this personality that Moses can't see which addresses him in the first person and only shows Moses His back or Glory in Ex 22:20. Who ever it was refused Moses to see His face saying no one can and live. How can it be Jesus? I remember Mal 3:6. How can God say no one can see Him and live then show His face to thousands at a time? Of course I'm talking about Jesus here and not God the Father. Wouldn't that make God a liar? - post 498
And this in 545 by Dorthea - I decided to look it up in my Orthodox Study Bible, and in the footnotes for Exodus 33:23, it says:
My back refers to the glory of God, for man can see His glory if his heart is pure. For Moses saw His glory to the extent he was capable, as is the case with any man. This glory is also called His energy. Man can know God in His energy, but not in His essence.
That's how the EO see that passage.
You might be interested in following my exchange with Dorthea from 498 through 550. Very pleasant exchange.
I'm a little curious here. If they're annihilated how is anybody or thing going to tread them down in verse 3?Ezk.18:4 Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father As well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die. And again in verse 20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
Malachi 4 speaks to the time when the wicked shall be destroyed.
1For behold, the day is coming, Burning like an oven, And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up, That will leave them neither root nor branch. [That is total annihilation] Now read verse 3.
You shall trample the wicked, For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
On the day that I do this, Says the LORD of hosts.
Can you explain the difference in the word everlasting in say John 3:16 and contrast it to Mat 25:41. I just can't seem to understand the difference.Jesus speaks of this event in Mat.25:32-33,41 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Verse 41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire ...We just read what happens when these wicked souls/people end up in this fire Mal.4
In Revelation 20:6 we read that Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power... So the second death does have power over some. That second death is forever, eternal, ETERNAL DEATH, eternal punish-MENT; NOT eternal punish-ING.
There is only one being that would perpetuate the lie that God would torment people forever for one short life time of sin. That may be the way Satan would do things if he was in charge, but thank God Satan is not in charge, God is. Eternal punishing is Satans fate and he would like us to think it is our fate too.
OK tell me flat out Who Moses talked to especially since you suggest I'm doing your thinking. And don't give me this run aroud stuff using the word God. Was it Jesus or God the Father?"beats me"!? (this is going to be some discussion, alright)
ok.
my answer would be in the six point type i highlighted in each verse i submitted.
it's nice to know that you take time out to think for me, that's mighty nice of you. can you tell me some more things i'm thinking or need to think (you know i need help)?
will get back with you on post 498 and i read the exchange between you and Dorthea, of whom i'm waiting for a response to "Our" of gen 1:26.
That doesn't splain Who the Speaker was in Gen 3:15. Do you need some illustrative help?john 1:14!
OK tell me flat out Who Moses talked to especially since you suggest I'm doing your thinking. And don't give me this run aroud stuff using the word God. Was it Jesus or God the Father?
That doesn't splain Who the Speaker was in Gen 3:15. Do you need some illustrative help?
Sure the wicked are going to get a short whippin and cease to be. So its over for ever. Big deal a short whippin for years of pleasure - not a bad trade off. At least they had fun - you? My guess is that is zactly why my SDA neighbor smiles like a cheshire cat about all those phony hot dogs and talks about sinning while eating Churches chicken.please elaborate.
Sure the wicked are going to get a short whippin and cease to be. So its over for ever. Big deal a short whippin for years of pleasure - not a bad trade off. At least they had fun - you? My guess is that is zactly why my SDA neighbor smiles like a cheshire cat about all those phony hot dogs and talks about sinning while eating Churches chicken.He never seems to tire of lying to himslef about the phony stuff he endures for salvation. One can't purposefully sin as a life style and have salvation at the same time, can they? Sure sounds like pleasure to me - you?
OK maybe I see what you're saying."beats me"!? (this is going to be some discussion, alright)
ok.
my answer would be in the six point type i highlighted in each verse i submitted.
it's nice to know that you take time out to think for me, that's mighty nice of you. can you tell me some more things i'm thinking or need to think (you know i need help)?
will get back with you on post 498 and i read the exchange between you and Dorthea, of whom i'm waiting for a response to "Our" of gen 1:26.
Please go through this Scripture I'm posting in nausating detail. I think you know exactly what I'm looking for or at. I want to know exactly Who each party and pronoun is referring to.the One we now know as Jesus, of Whom, i believe is the Christ.
Blessed be His Name and He Who sent Him!
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