Who Did Lucifer Murder and When?

[Faith.Man]

Ezekiel 28:11 - Again the word of the LORD came to me saying,
Ezekiel 28:12 - "Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "You had the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
Ezekiel 28:13 - "You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared.
Ezekiel 28:14 - "You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezekiel 28:15 - "You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you.
Ezekiel 28:16 - "By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence, And you sinned; Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire. [NASB]

This passage commonly refers to both Lucifer and the King of Tyre. Lucifer was in Eden before his fall from grace as this passage indicates. Lucifer was perfect at this time before unrighteousness was found in him. So, this needs to occur after the seven days of creation, right? Consider the following:

John 8:44 - "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. [NASB]

Questions:

• Ezekiel says that Lucifer was perfect from the beginning and John quotes Jesus as saying he was a murderer and liar from the beginning -- how do you reconcile?
• Who did Lucifer murder and when did it happen? We know angels are immortal, so ... ?

 

[juvenissun]

Ezekiel 28:11 - Again the word of the LORD came to me saying,
Ezekiel 28:12 - "Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "You had the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
Ezekiel 28:13 - "You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared.
Ezekiel 28:14 - "You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezekiel 28:15 - "You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you.
Ezekiel 28:16 - "By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence, And you sinned; Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire. [NASB]

This passage commonly refers to both Lucifer and the King of Tyre. Lucifer was in Eden before his fall from grace as this passage indicates. Lucifer was perfect at this time before unrighteousness was found in him. So, this needs to occur after the seven days of creation, right? Consider the following:

John 8:44 - "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. [NASB]

Questions:

• Ezekiel says that Lucifer was perfect from the beginning and John quotes Jesus as saying he was a murderer and liar from the beginning -- how do you reconcile?
• Who did Lucifer murder and when did it happen? We know angels are immortal, so ... ?

The two "beginnings" are different in time.

Lucifer murdered Adam. That was at the beginning of man. Yes, murder only apply to human.

 

[Faith.Man]

The two "beginnings" are different in time.

Lucifer murdered Adam. That was at the beginning of man. Yes, murder only apply to human.

I disagree. Lucifer did not murder Adam from the beginning. So that position is a non-starter.

Lucifer walked in Eden perfect in all his ways. Is this the same Eden that Adam walked in and God walked in during the cool of the evening? What day of the Creation week was that?

Lucifer sinned and took a third of the angels with him. That has to be after the creation of Eden since he walked in Eden blameless. Later, Lucifer through a serpent, deceived Eve. Because Adam chose to believe Eve and not God, he was subject to the consequences of his choice.

 

[juvenissun]

I disagree. Lucifer did not murder Adam from the beginning. So that position is a non-starter.

Lucifer walked in Eden perfect in all his ways. Is this the same Eden that Adam walked in and God walked in during the cool of the evening? What day of the Creation week was that?

Lucifer sinned and took a third of the angels with him. That has to be after the creation of Eden since he walked in Eden blameless. Later, Lucifer through a serpent, deceived Eve. Because Adam chose to believe Eve and not God, he was subject to the consequences of his choice.

It should be some days after the 7th Day.

OK, Lucifer murdered Eve, at the beginning of human.

 

[Papias]

Are not there only 10 deaths attributable to Satan in Job 1:19, when Satan directs a wind to kill the 10 children of Job?

I guess it must be referring to those?

Papias

 

[Faith.Man]

Are not there only 10 deaths attributable to Satan in Job 1:19, when Satan directs a wind to kill the 10 children of Job?

I guess it must be referring to those?

Papias

Sorry, but the Bible says Lucifer (Satan) was a murderer from the beginning. Job's children were not born yet.

 

[Faith.Man]

It should be some days after the 7th Day.

OK, Lucifer murdered Eve, at the beginning of human.

That seventh day of creation must have been a busy day!!!

• A perfect Lucifer walks in Eden
• Lucifer leads a rebellion of one third of the Angels against God
• Lucifer gets kicked out of Eden
• Lucifer inhabits a serpent to sneak back into Eden. (Like that would fool God!)
• Lucifer tempts Eve and waits for her to tempt Adam.
• Lucifer murders Eve? (I think I missed that verse.)

 

[miamited]

Hi Faithman,

I believe that Juvenissun is correct. The different passages are speaking of two beginnings. Lucifer was perfect when he was created by God - his beginning. At some point, and it would seem to have been before God created our realm 6,000 years ago, Lucifer rebelled against God's authority and that is what the Holy Spirit is writing to us through Ezekiel. That Lucifer was created perfect and at some point unrighteousness was found in him.

Jesus is speaking of the 'beginning' of this creation. Yes, Lucifer has been a liar (how he got Eve to question God's word and then assured her that she would not surely die, but become like God) and a murderer by bringing death to all mankind in this realm. Lucifer has been both a liar and a murderer since the beginning of this realm of creation in which flesh lives. Bottom line, you are trying to meld the Holy Spirit's revelation through Ezekiel that Satan is also a created creature of God and also sinned and in that explanation the Holy Spirit tells us that in Satan's beginning he was perfect as are all things that God creates; with Jesus talking to the Jews of their beginning when God created all of this realm of creation. You see, the Jews that Jesus was speaking to wouldn't have had any idea the beginning of the angelic realm and so it would really have been nonsense for Jesus to have been telling them of that beginning. He was telling them that in the beginning of their realm of creation Satan has always been a liar and a murderer.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Faith.Man]

Hi Faithman,

I believe that Juvenissun is correct. The different passages are speaking of two beginnings. Lucifer was perfect when he was created by God - his beginning. At some point, and it would seem to have been before God created our realm 6,000 years ago, Lucifer rebelled against God's authority and that is what the Holy Spirit is writing to us through Ezekiel. That Lucifer was created perfect and at some point unrighteousness was found in him.

Hello again Ted of Miami. We are talking about two beginnings, very good. We are also talking about two Edens. Did you make that connection? In the first Eden, Lucifer walked about and was perfect in all his ways. Lucifer had authority over Earth until sin was found in him and he led a third of the angels in a rebellion.

Isaiah 14:13 - "But you said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north.
Isaiah 14:14 - 'I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.' [NASB]

Jesus is speaking of the 'beginning' of this creation. Yes, Lucifer has been a liar (how he got Eve to question God's word and then assured her that she would not surely die, but become like God) and a murderer by bringing death to all mankind in this realm. Lucifer has been both a liar and a murderer since the beginning of this realm of creation in which flesh lives. Bottom line, you are trying to meld the Holy Spirit's revelation through Ezekiel that Satan is also a created creature of God and also sinned and in that explanation the Holy Spirit tells us that in Satan's beginning he was perfect as are all things that God creates; with Jesus talking to the Jews of their beginning when God created all of this realm of creation. You see, the Jews that Jesus was speaking to wouldn't have had any idea the beginning of the angelic realm and so it would really have been nonsense for Jesus to have been telling them of that beginning. He was telling them that in the beginning of their realm of creation Satan has always been a liar and a murderer.

God bless you.

In Christ, Ted

Lucifer was a liar and a murderer at the beginning of the creation described in Genesis 1:3-2:2. Which means, he was a liar and murder during the first creation account (Genesis 1:1), and judgment on Earth was the result of his actions (Genesis 1:2). So who did Lucifer murder and who did he lie to during the first creation? We can speculate that many of the mass extinctions in Earth's history were the result of Lucifer's actions, but we just don't know for sure.

As you note, Jesus was talking about Lucifer based on the beginning of human history. You underestimate Jesus' audience. After all, Peter, not known as a Biblical scholar, gives us many details about angels and their rebellion. They also had the book of Enoch that Peter quotes from.

 

[juvenissun]

That seventh day of creation must have been a busy day!!!

• A perfect Lucifer walks in Eden
• Lucifer leads a rebellion of one third of the Angels against God
• Lucifer gets kicked out of Eden
• Lucifer inhabits a serpent to sneak back into Eden. (Like that would fool God!)
• Lucifer tempts Eve and waits for her to tempt Adam.
• Lucifer murders Eve? (I think I missed that verse.)

I think nothing happened on the Seventh Day. It was a sabbath day.

 

[Faith.Man]

I think nothing happened on the Seventh Day. It was a sabbath day.

Do you mean the sixth day instead of the seventh? The reason this is important is that it is the end of the beginning. Or was there another beginning?

Then Jesus' reference must be referring to a different time than Ezekiel's reference, a different Eden perhaps. Maybe even there's a "gap" in recorded history between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:3, and Genesis 1:2 describes that condition; a condition of judgment by God.

Once again, I'd like to highly recommend the book, In the Beginnings by Steven Dill. He deals with these apparent inconsistencies quite well in his book.

 

[miamited]

Hi Faithman,

I respectfully disagree with your understanding. No, I don't see a second Eden. No, I don't agree that the earth has suffered over billions/millions/trillions of years of different ages because of Satan.

You also wrote: You underestimate Jesus' audience. After all, Peter, not known as a Biblical scholar, gives us many details about angels and their rebellion. They also had the book of Enoch that Peter quotes from.

I'm not sure how that explains that I underestimate Jesus' audience. I didn't mean to infer, and I apologize if others read my statement to mean, that the Jews didn't know anything about angels or that they didn't understand that angels were also created beings such as themselves. All I'm saying is that the Jews, and even Christians today don't know the time or the event of the creation of the angelic realm. We all just know that it did happen at some point in the past, just as the creation of this realm did happen at some point in the past. God does, however, give us much more information about our realm of creation.

He tells us how it was done; in the timeframe that it was done; and through geneologies even when in the past it was done. We have none of this same information about the angelic realm. And, if we are to believe Jesus' regarding the angels not being given in marriage, then there are no geneologies of angels. Every one that exists was created by God. Maybe at the same time and maybe not. Every angel has lived an eternal life since being created by God. No fathers, no mothers, no sisters and brothers. No uncles, no aunts or cousins or nephews.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Faith.Man]

Hi Faithman,

I respectfully disagree with your understanding. No, I don't see a second Eden. No, I don't agree that the earth has suffered over billions/millions/trillions of years of different ages because of Satan.

You also wrote: You underestimate Jesus' audience. After all, Peter, not known as a Biblical scholar, gives us many details about angels and their rebellion. They also had the book of Enoch that Peter quotes from.

I'm not sure how that explains that I underestimate Jesus' audience. I didn't mean to infer, and I apologize if others read my statement to mean, that the Jews didn't know anything about angels or that they didn't understand that angels were also created beings such as themselves. All I'm saying is that the Jews, and even Christians today don't know the time or the event of the creation of the angelic realm. We all just know that it did happen at some point in the past, just as the creation of this realm did happen at some point in the past. God does, however, give us much more information about our realm of creation.

He tells us how it was done; in the timeframe that it was done; and through geneologies even when in the past it was done. We have none of this same information about the angelic realm. And, if we are to believe Jesus' regarding the angels not being given in marriage, then there are no geneologies of angels. Every one that exists was created by God. Maybe at the same time and maybe not. Every angel has lived an eternal life since being created by God. No fathers, no mothers, no sisters and brothers. No uncles, no aunts or cousins or nephews.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

I really don't see how you can get around an understanding of two Edens, and two beginnings. One beginning is the creation of the universe; the other beginning is the (re-)creation of the Earth. Or another way of looking at it, like us who are in Christ, the Earth was born again. The darkness and chaos indicative of God's judgment was regenerated to the Earth we know now. This leap of faith is in perfect biblical and scientific harmony.

Lucifer was perfect and walked in Eden. This was before he led a third of the angels in a rebellion against God's sovereignty. He was perfect from the beginning as scripture states. Next, we have Jesus talking about Lucifer as a murderer and liar, the father of lies, from the beginning. Did Jesus not know scripture? Hardly, he was talking about a different beginning. Specifically, he was talking about the beginning of man.

Now, scripture makes sense and as a side benefit, it is in perfect harmony with science. Christians clinging to a young Earth understanding of science and trying to reformat science to be in-line with their mistaken understanding of scripture.

Regarding the angels, scripture gives us many insights into the angelic world. We know they are immortal and are not given in marriage. We also know that they are a little lower than God, but above man. Since God could have a Son, i.e. Jesus, why couldn't the angels, especially someone like Lucifer who thought himself equal to God? We know from Jude and Peter (and Enoch) that some angels are now imprisoned for their sin. Since Lucifer's angels that rebelled against God are not now imprisoned, who is? We know from Genesis that angels had sex with women and spawned offspring. I do not believe they were married when they did this. I do know this was the reason for Noah's Flood.

I'll stop now to give you an opportunity to respond. I lose track when posts get too long.

God bless.

 

[mindlight]

Ezekiel 28:11 - Again the word of the LORD came to me saying,
Ezekiel 28:12 - "Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "You had the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
Ezekiel 28:13 - "You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared.
Ezekiel 28:14 - "You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezekiel 28:15 - "You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you.
Ezekiel 28:16 - "By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence, And you sinned; Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire. [NASB]

This passage commonly refers to both Lucifer and the King of Tyre. Lucifer was in Eden before his fall from grace as this passage indicates. Lucifer was perfect at this time before unrighteousness was found in him. So, this needs to occur after the seven days of creation, right? Consider the following:

John 8:44 - "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. [NASB]

Questions:

• Ezekiel says that Lucifer was perfect from the beginning and John quotes Jesus as saying he was a murderer and liar from the beginning -- how do you reconcile?
• Who did Lucifer murder and when did it happen? We know angels are immortal, so ... ?

Lucifer was created perfect , God does not create imperfection. I am not sure when the angels were created as their creation is not mentioned in scripture- so it might not have been after the creation of the material universe.

Satan appears to have had the right to be in the presence of God in Eden and later with Job. He had the role of accuser which he seemed to exercise in Eden with an element of deceit ("Did God really say...") and in order to ruin mankinds relationship with God. So it seems from the beginning of his relationship with mankind he has been experienced as a liar whose intent is to ruin.

Jesus suggested that murder like adultery might be considered in terms of more than the physical act and in terms of intent also in the sermon on the Mount for instance.

Satans murderous intent was first revealed in his engagement with Adam and Eve. Indeed the consequence of that was that people who had been made to live forever died. Later Cain murders Abel in the same spirit. Satan murders Jobs children etc. One could argue that murder was not possible before Adam took the apple as death was not possible before then either.

 

[Faith.Man]

Lucifer was created perfect , God does not create imperfection. I am not sure when the angels were created as their creation is not mentioned in scripture- so it might not have been after the creation of the material universe.

The bible says Lucifer was perfect from the beginning. What beginning? The bible also says Lucifer was a murderer and a liar from the beginning. If you say this refers to Lucifer's interaction with Eve, then you dispute that Lucifer was perfect from the beginning. There is obviously two different beginnings referenced here, as well as two different Edens.

Satan appears to have had the right to be in the presence of God in Eden and later with Job. He had the role of accuser which he seemed to exercise in Eden with an element of deceit ("Did God really say...") and in order to ruin mankinds relationship with God. So it seems from the beginning of his relationship with mankind he has been experienced as a liar whose intent is to ruin.

He walked in Eden and was perfect. He also slithered into Eden in the form of a serpent. He was already among the fallen angels at this point. I don't see how this can all fit under the umbrella of the beginning. We are talking about two different times, two different beginnings and two different Edens.

Jesus suggested that murder like adultery might be considered in terms of more than the physical act and in terms of intent also in the sermon on the Mount for instance.

That's a stretch for the verses cited. No offense, but you must be a young earth creationist. These verses (and others I haven't quoted yet) will not fit into the YEC concept of the beginning, at least, not and still adhere to sola scriptura. I fully support the five solas including sola scriptura.

Satans murderous intent was first revealed in his engagement with Adam and Eve. Indeed the consequence of that was that people who had been made to live forever died. Later Cain murders Abel in the same spirit. Satan murders Jobs children etc. One could argue that murder was not possible before Adam took the apple as death was not possible before then either.

That's an assumption on your part that leaves no time for the angelic rebellion where 1/3 of the angels rebelled against God. This could not all happen "in the beginning". You also make another assumption, that Adam and Eve had been made to live forever. The death Lucifer brought to Adam and Eve was spiritual death. This is so because they did not physically die in that day, but lived for many, many years. Your supposition does not adequately explain Jesus saying that Lucifer was a murderer from the beginning. Jesus knew the scriptures which stated the following:

Ezekiel 28:13 - "You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared.
Ezekiel 28:14 - "You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezekiel 28:15 - "You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you.

So, Jesus must have been talking about a different beginning -- the beginning of creation, a different time, a different Eden, one that is different from the restoration of creation spoken of in Genesis.

 

[mindlight]

The bible says Lucifer was perfect from the beginning. What beginning? The bible also says Lucifer was a murderer and a liar from the beginning. If you say this refers to Lucifer's interaction with Eve, then you dispute that Lucifer was perfect from the beginning. There is obviously two different beginnings referenced here, as well as two different Edens.



He walked in Eden and was perfect. He also slithered into Eden in the form of a serpent. He was already among the fallen angels at this point. I don't see how this can all fit under the umbrella of the beginning. We are talking about two different times, two different beginnings and two different Edens.



That's a stretch for the verses cited. No offense, but you must be a young earth creationist. These verses (and others I haven't quoted yet) will not fit into the YEC concept of the beginning, at least, not and still adhere to sola scriptura. I fully support the five solas including sola scriptura.



That's an assumption on your part that leaves no time for the angelic rebellion where 1/3 of the angels rebelled against God. This could not all happen "in the beginning". You also make another assumption, that Adam and Eve had been made to live forever. The death Lucifer brought to Adam and Eve was spiritual death. This is so because they did not physically die in that day, but lived for many, many years. Your supposition does not adequately explain Jesus saying that Lucifer was a murderer from the beginning. Jesus knew the scriptures which stated the following:

Ezekiel 28:13 - "You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared.
Ezekiel 28:14 - "You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezekiel 28:15 - "You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you.

So, Jesus must have been talking about a different beginning -- the beginning of creation, a different time, a different Eden, one that is different from the restoration of creation spoken of in Genesis.

The beginning of Lucifer might have been before the beginning of Creation is what I said. In which case there are two beginnings. In terms of his interaction with humans Satan has always been a liar and a murderer. But it was not so at his beginning when he was created perfect.

In Eden and in Jobs time it seems apparent that Satan was still able to walk into Gods throne room and so in human time scales it seems that this angelic rebellion occurred after Satan went bad and not necessarily instantly either. So I make no connection between this and the two beginnings.

 

[Faith.Man]

The beginning of Lucifer might have been before the beginning of Creation is what I said. In which case there are two beginnings. In terms of his interaction with humans Satan has always been a liar and a murderer. But it was not so at his beginning when he was created perfect.

In Eden and in Jobs time it seems apparent that Satan was still able to walk into Gods throne room and so in human time scales it seems that this angelic rebellion occurred after Satan went bad and not necessarily instantly either. So I make no connection between this and the two beginnings.

So, according to what you've written, Satan wasn't fallen, at least not totally, during Job's time. You really believe that? So Satan's leading of 1/3 of the angels against God was a gradual thing?

 

[mindlight]

So, according to what you've written, Satan wasn't fallen, at least not totally, during Job's time. You really believe that? So Satan's leading of 1/3 of the angels against God was a gradual thing?

Yeh heavenly time might work differently of course but that is what the bible says to me. SO IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER:

1) Satan was created perfect and given an important role by God.
2) In Eden in his first interaction with human beings Satan acts in a deceptive manner and apparently with the intent of ruining. So he had already gone bad by this time.
3) It is at this point that God curses him and shows him his fate- to be crushed under the offspring of the womans heel (ie Jesus). But it is one thing to be shown ones fate and another to receive it for real. e.g. Adam was told he would die at the same time but it took a thousand years before he did.
4) At the time of Job it appears he was still able to enter Gods presence and have conversations with Him.
5) At the cross his power of accuser is irrevocably undermined as Jesus Himself pays the penalty for our sins.
6) There is mention in the book of Revelation of a war in heaven and a third of the angels falling with Satan. There is a separate reference to another angelic fall that occurred earlier as a result of which various angels are already imprisoned e.g. related to the Nephilim and the flood.
7) I believe the main Satan led angelic fall occurs sometime between the cross and the antiChrist but am not very clear as to when precisely. I'd be interested to hear peoples views.

 

[Faith.Man]

Yeh heavenly time might work differently of course but that is what the bible says to me. SO IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER:

1) Satan was created perfect and given an important role by God.
2) In Eden in his first interaction with human beings Satan acts in a deceptive manner and apparently with the intent of ruining. So he had already gone bad by this time.
3) It is at this point that God curses him and shows him his fate- to be crushed under the offspring of the womans heel (ie Jesus). But it is one thing to be shown ones fate and another to receive it for real. e.g. Adam was told he would die at the same time but it took a thousand years before he did.
4) At the time of Job it appears he was still able to enter Gods presence and have conversations with Him.
5) At the cross his power of accuser is irrevocably undermined as Jesus Himself pays the penalty for our sins.
6) There is mention in the book of Revelation of a war in heaven and a third of the angels falling with Satan. There is a separate reference to another angelic fall that occurred earlier as a result of which various angels are already imprisoned e.g. related to the Nephilim and the flood.
7) I believe the main Satan led angelic fall occurs sometime between the cross and the antiChrist but am not very clear as to when precisely. I'd be interested to hear peoples views.

Your understanding of scripture is very mixed up. I'm trying to be kind, believe it or not. You need to get some better teaching before you go further down this bottomless rabbit hole.

 

[mindlight]

[/color]
Your understanding of scripture is very mixed up. I'm trying to be kind, believe it or not. You need to get some better teaching before you go further down this bottomless rabbit hole.

Oh I don't need your kindness. If you think I wrong on my understanding of scripture then demonstrate where please. Like which of my 7 points do you agree with and which ones do you think are wrong?