Who can Divorce Whom?

[newton3005]

In Matthew 19:3-9, the Pharisees ask Jesus if it’s lawful for a man to divorce his wife. Jesus refers them to Genesis 2:24 which says, “Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.” Jesus further says that as they have become one flesh, then what God has joined together, “let not man separate.”

When God gave His Command in Genesis 2:24, this was before the Hebrews, led by Moses, embarked on their 40-year journey to the Promised Land. In answer to Genesis 2:24, effectively, the Pharisees asked Jesus in Verse 7 of Matthew 19, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” They were referring to Deuteronomy 24:1, which, in the face of do’s and don’ts in Old Testament Law, implies that it is OK for a man to send his wife away if he gives her a certificate of divorce. Jesus answers in Verse 8, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.” Commentators have written that Jesus had the Hebrews’ wilderness journey in mind, inferring that because of man’s tendency for his heart to harden, which could disrupt the Hebrews’ journey to the Promised Land, it was necessary to allow a man to divorce his wife if he saw fit, and to give his wife a certificate to avoid any misunderstanding that may lead to violence or disruption amongst the rest of the Hebrews that may ensue from their separation.

On the basis of being allowed to acquire an understanding of the Scriptures by using reason as provided for in Isaiah 1:18, it seems that Jesus may have seen the issuance of a certificate as necessary in this extraordinary event of the Hebrews’ journey to the Promised Land, but a) having then arrived at the Promised Land, and b), “from the beginning” as Jesus says, the Law of Genesis 2:24 was in effect, so, on the basis of Genesis 2:24 alone a man cannot divorce his wife.

On the other hand, there is no similar Law that applies to a woman; so, taking into account other parts of the Scriptures, it seems a woman can divorce a man provided certain conditions are met, which, again apply to men. In Matthew 5:32 Jesus says “...whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.” Well, adultery is a sin. So, a woman can leave a man, but under God, she cannot marry another man. To a certain extent, this is in contrast to Deuteronomy 24, which implies it is not sinful for a man to marry a divorced woman...in fact, under Deuteronomy 24 a divorced woman can be passed around to any man, so long as that man is not her original husband.

Deuteronomy 24, not even taking other commentators into account, seems to apply just to the Hebrews in their journey to the Promised Land, since Verse 4 says “...And you shall not bring sin upon the land that the LORD your God is giving you for an inheritance.” Seems that to Jesus, after they settle in the Promised Land they revert back to Genesis 2:24 which faults the man for divorcing a woman, and Jesus adds the touch that whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Seems that in Jesus saying in Verse 6 of Matthew 19, “What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate,” he may be inferring that any marriage between a man and wife is an act of God, which a man cannot undo. On the other hand, a woman can undo it without punishment, so long as she doesn’t marry another man, putting the other man at risk for committing a sin.

 

[StephenDisraeli]

When we look at the Old Testament laws and what Jesus thought of them, we need to be aware of the social conditions of the time. The women of Israel, at least, had no real economic independence. Marriage was an economic necessity for women, the best available alternatives being frequently poverty or prostitution. That is why the rapist was obliged to marry his victim, and not allowed to divorce her afterwards, because he had destroyed her chances of marrying anybody else, which gave him the duty of supporting her for the rest of her life. (However, this marriage is not necessarily imposed on the woman. Exodus ch22 vv16-17 gives her family the option of taking the money, the usual "bride-price", instead). My point is that the women had no motive to demand divorce. Divorce was something which men did for their own convenience at the expense of the welfare of their wives, and that is precisely what Jesus was objecting to.

Also the Pharisees were wrong about the intent of the law in Deuteronomy ch24. The lawmaker was NOT saying "It is OK to give certificates of divorce. The law begins by saying "When you do these things..." In other words, he finds the evil custom of giving divorce certificates already in place, and is aware that nothing he can say will eradicate it in the short term. That is what Jesus means when he says that the practice is founded on "the hardness of your hearts". He is talking about their reluctance to listen to what God wants. So the lawmaker is saying "I know I can't stop this custom, but I can at least try to place limits on the effects. I may be obliged to tolerate the defilement of wives going to other men, but letting them go back to their husbands afterwards is really going too far. It makes the acceptance of adultery so obvious, instead of lightly disguising it as "divorce and remarriage"".

In Mark's version of the discussion, the dictum that divorce followed by remarriage amounts to adultery applies to man and woman alike (ch10 vv11-12). Jesus is saying that this has been God's attitude all along. "In the beginning" is a reference to the declaration in Genesis ch2, In other words, it goes right back to the beginning of the human race and the establishment of the two genders. The ideal was one husband permanently with one wife. Any variations from that (including polygamy) came out of "the hardness of men's hearts".

 

[Mark Quayle]

In Matthew 19:3-9, the Pharisees ask Jesus if it’s lawful for a man to divorce his wife. Jesus refers them to Genesis 2:24 which says, “Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.” Jesus further says that as they have become one flesh, then what God has joined together, “let not man separate.”

When God gave His Command in Genesis 2:24, this was before the Hebrews, led by Moses, embarked on their 40-year journey to the Promised Land. In answer to Genesis 2:24, effectively, the Pharisees asked Jesus in Verse 7 of Matthew 19, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” They were referring to Deuteronomy 24:1, which, in the face of do’s and don’ts in Old Testament Law, implies that it is OK for a man to send his wife away if he gives her a certificate of divorce. Jesus answers in Verse 8, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.” Commentators have written that Jesus had the Hebrews’ wilderness journey in mind, inferring that because of man’s tendency for his heart to harden, which could disrupt the Hebrews’ journey to the Promised Land, it was necessary to allow a man to divorce his wife if he saw fit, and to give his wife a certificate to avoid any misunderstanding that may lead to violence or disruption amongst the rest of the Hebrews that may ensue from their separation.

On the basis of being allowed to acquire an understanding of the Scriptures by using reason as provided for in Isaiah 1:18, it seems that Jesus may have seen the issuance of a certificate as necessary in this extraordinary event of the Hebrews’ journey to the Promised Land, but a) having then arrived at the Promised Land, and b), “from the beginning” as Jesus says, the Law of Genesis 2:24 was in effect, so, on the basis of Genesis 2:24 alone a man cannot divorce his wife.

On the other hand, there is no similar Law that applies to a woman; so, taking into account other parts of the Scriptures, it seems a woman can divorce a man provided certain conditions are met, which, again apply to men. In Matthew 5:32 Jesus says “...whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.” Well, adultery is a sin. So, a woman can leave a man, but under God, she cannot marry another man. To a certain extent, this is in contrast to Deuteronomy 24, which implies it is not sinful for a man to marry a divorced woman...in fact, under Deuteronomy 24 a divorced woman can be passed around to any man, so long as that man is not her original husband.

Deuteronomy 24, not even taking other commentators into account, seems to apply just to the Hebrews in their journey to the Promised Land, since Verse 4 says “...And you shall not bring sin upon the land that the LORD your God is giving you for an inheritance.” Seems that to Jesus, after they settle in the Promised Land they revert back to Genesis 2:24 which faults the man for divorcing a woman, and Jesus adds the touch that whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Seems that in Jesus saying in Verse 6 of Matthew 19, “What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate,” he may be inferring that any marriage between a man and wife is an act of God, which a man cannot undo. On the other hand, a woman can undo it without punishment, so long as she doesn’t marry another man, putting the other man at risk for committing a sin.

What continually strikes me is the legalistic attempt to find a way to divorce. Is it not enough that God HATES divorce? It was because of the hardness of their hearts that Moses was given rules for divorce.

 

[Diamond7]

divorce?

I had a priest in the Episcopal Church tell me that my wife and I should divorce. He ended up getting a divorce and within a year of that he died. That was 40 years ago and I am still telling people God hates divorce.

 

[ZephBonkerer]

What continually strikes me is the legalistic attempt to find a way to divorce. Is it not enough that God HATES divorce? It was because of the hardness of their hearts that Moses was given rules for divorce.

This may seem shocking, but I believe God doesn't hate divorce. Not all translations of Malachi 2:16 read that way. And if divorce really were that heinous, why would it have ever been lawful? (Deuteronomy 24)

 

[Mark Quayle]

This may seem shocking, but I believe God doesn't hate divorce. Not all translations of Malachi 2:16 read that way. And if divorce really were that heinous, why would it have ever been lawful? (Deuteronomy 24)

Marriage, like so many other things in life, is but a picture of what Heaven will be like. I'm not going to say there isn't a time for divorce. My whole point is that suddenly, when a person doesn't like what's going on, he looks for 'legal' permission to change it. Reminds me of my brother pounding his older brother, and running... "Mommy, Mommy! Danny is going to hit me!"

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

In Matthew 19:3-9, the Pharisees ask Jesus if it’s lawful for a man to divorce his wife. Jesus refers them to Genesis 2:24 which says, “Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.” Jesus further says that as they have become one flesh, then what God has joined together, “let not man separate.”

When God gave His Command in Genesis 2:24, this was before the Hebrews, led by Moses, embarked on their 40-year journey to the Promised Land. In answer to Genesis 2:24, effectively, the Pharisees asked Jesus in Verse 7 of Matthew 19, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” They were referring to Deuteronomy 24:1, which, in the face of do’s and don’ts in Old Testament Law, implies that it is OK for a man to send his wife away if he gives her a certificate of divorce. Jesus answers in Verse 8, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.” Commentators have written that Jesus had the Hebrews’ wilderness journey in mind, inferring that because of man’s tendency for his heart to harden, which could disrupt the Hebrews’ journey to the Promised Land, it was necessary to allow a man to divorce his wife if he saw fit, and to give his wife a certificate to avoid any misunderstanding that may lead to violence or disruption amongst the rest of the Hebrews that may ensue from their separation.

On the basis of being allowed to acquire an understanding of the Scriptures by using reason as provided for in Isaiah 1:18, it seems that Jesus may have seen the issuance of a certificate as necessary in this extraordinary event of the Hebrews’ journey to the Promised Land, but a) having then arrived at the Promised Land, and b), “from the beginning” as Jesus says, the Law of Genesis 2:24 was in effect, so, on the basis of Genesis 2:24 alone a man cannot divorce his wife.

On the other hand, there is no similar Law that applies to a woman; so, taking into account other parts of the Scriptures, it seems a woman can divorce a man provided certain conditions are met, which, again apply to men. In Matthew 5:32 Jesus says “...whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.” Well, adultery is a sin. So, a woman can leave a man, but under God, she cannot marry another man. To a certain extent, this is in contrast to Deuteronomy 24, which implies it is not sinful for a man to marry a divorced woman...in fact, under Deuteronomy 24 a divorced woman can be passed around to any man, so long as that man is not her original husband.

Deuteronomy 24, not even taking other commentators into account, seems to apply just to the Hebrews in their journey to the Promised Land, since Verse 4 says “...And you shall not bring sin upon the land that the LORD your God is giving you for an inheritance.” Seems that to Jesus, after they settle in the Promised Land they revert back to Genesis 2:24 which faults the man for divorcing a woman, and Jesus adds the touch that whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Seems that in Jesus saying in Verse 6 of Matthew 19, “What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate,” he may be inferring that any marriage between a man and wife is an act of God, which a man cannot undo. On the other hand, a woman can undo it without punishment, so long as she doesn’t marry another man, putting the other man at risk for committing a sin.

This reminds me of someone trying to find a loophole to allow for divorce. saying that God said let man not separate what God has brought together as somehow meaning a woman is allowed to divorce but not a man is ridiculous

 

[ZephBonkerer]

My whole point is that suddenly, when a person doesn't like what's going on, he looks for 'legal' permission to change it...

When my marriage was in jeopardy, I wasn't looking for some justification to get a divorce. I already had that. Instead, I was looking for a way to make divorce unnecessary. I only proceeded with divorce when it was clear I had no viable alternative.

Despite my efforts to do what is right, I was still condemned by Church people who seemed to love the view from their high horse.

 

[Diamond7]

This may seem shocking, but I believe God doesn't hate divorce.

People get really hurt in a divorce. The disciples said it all when they said it is better not to marry than to have a marriage end up in a divorce.

 

[ZephBonkerer]

People get really hurt in a divorce. The disciples said it all when they said it is better not to marry than to have a marriage end up in a divorce.

People get really hurt in a failed marriage. Such marriages are effectively over regardless of whether divorce papers are filed. Divorce is only the result of what transpired leading up to that.

As for the disciples, they clearly were astonished at the teachings of Jesus. But I don't believe it is for the reasons we tend to think. It seems to me that the whole idea of one wife for life was foreign to them.

 

[Diamond7]

Such marriages are effectively over regardless of whether divorce papers are filed.

Paul tells us that God calls us to peace. The problem is people want to get married again. It is very important to get married to the right person because divorce is a disaster. Esp for the children.

 

[ZephBonkerer]

Paul tells us that God calls us to peace. The problem is people want to get married again. It is very important to get married to the right person because divorce is a disaster. Esp for the children.

Expecting people in a hopelessly failed marriage to still be roommates and married on paper only is not reasonable. While nobody loves divorce (lawyers being a possible exception), it's hard to see how divorce is any worse.

I too want to be married again. Let's be real: celibacy and I are simply not compatible. For that reason, remarriage is practically a necessity for me.

 

[Diamond7]

I too want to be married again. Let's be real: celibacy and I are simply not compatible. For that reason, remarriage is practically a necessity for me.

When I was single my son did not smoke, drink or take drugs. After I got married again, he began to smoke, drink and take drugs. He died at 40 from a "drug overdose". Is there a connection? Maybe yes, maybe no.

I went 17 years before I got married again. Paul said: "But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this." (1Corinthians 7:28)

You and I would say: Yes, we are having trouble being single. Just make sure you find someone willing to deal with the "troubles in this life". There is absolutely NO reason to get married if we are going to end up in another divorce.

 

[Diamond7]

Expecting people in a hopelessly failed marriage to still be roommates and married on paper only is not reasonable.

If the marriage fails, we become brother sister.
We should life now as we will live in Heaven where there is no marriage.

 

[ZephBonkerer]

If the marriage fails, we become brother sister.
We should life now as we will live in Heaven where there is no marriage.

The problem with that is not all of us are fit for celibacy, including myself. Perhaps in Heaven things will be different. But for now, my sex drive does not have an off switch. It is what it is. I don't do celibacy, and that is that.

 

[RevealedTruths]

If the marriage fails, we become brother sister.
We should life now as we will live in Heaven where there is no marriage.

I don't know about heaven, but there definitely will be marriage and procreation on the new Earth. Before someone shoots Matthew 22:30 at me, please first consider reading at least some biblical promises that speak of this (Isaiah 11 and 65, Ezekiel 37 etc.), and second, consider the fact that paternal and marital love is what makes us being made in God's image. Paternal love is the image of God's agapé love for man, and marital love is the image of Christ's agapé love for His bride, the Church. To say that there is no marriage in eternity is literally saying that humans will stop being made in God's image, which is what Lawless teachings want to accomplish.

 

[ZephBonkerer]

I don't know about heaven, but there definitely will be marriage and procreation on the new Earth. Before someone shoots Matthew 22:30 at me, please first consider reading at least some biblical promises that speak of this (Isaiah 11 and 65, Ezekiel 37 etc.), and second, consider the fact that paternal and marital love is what makes us being made in God's image. Paternal love is the image of God's agapé love for man, and marital love is the image of Christ's agapé love for His bride, the Church. To say that there is no marriage in eternity is literally saying that humans will stop being made in God's image, which is what Lawless teachings want to accomplish.

It might be more accurate to say marriage as we know it will not exist. That doesn't necessarily mean there will be no sexuality. What it all will look like it's to be determined.

 

[studentinprayer]

This may seem shocking, but I believe God doesn't hate divorce.

When my marriage was in jeopardy, I wasn't looking for some justification to get a divorce. I already had that. Instead, I was looking for a way to make divorce unnecessary. I only proceeded with divorce when it was clear I had no viable alternative.

People get really hurt in a failed marriage. Such marriages are effectively over regardless of whether divorce papers are filed. Divorce is only the result of what transpired leading up to that.

As for the disciples, they clearly were astonished at the teachings of Jesus. But I don't believe it is for the reasons we tend to think. It seems to me that the whole idea of one wife for life was foreign to them.

I am not understanding your point of view and hoping you can clarify.

I am assuming your not just talking about the more obvious examples of situations where say a divorce protects a child or removes someone from a life of sin/crime as I can certainly understand divorce for the greater good. Context always matters.

But, your posts seem to suggest this it is still 'good' simply because people grew apart and/or are not in love? In other words, what are we calling a 'failed' marriage here?

To me, even two strangers who don't really like each other can make a marriage work and find strength and happiness in it. Human's are not meant to be alone and I find it's mostly the modern epidemic of unhappiness that distorts people to disrespect and abuse their spouses to the point of forcing a so called 'failed' marriage. I sympathize no doubt, as it certainly possible one person alone is the 'problem', but it also seems silly to call it failed because the expectations are often so distorted that not even a basic level of respect is being shown on either side. I may be biased though as I have an amazing wife who I very much choose for love.

 

[studentinprayer]

In Matthew 19:3-9, the Pharisees ask Jesus if it’s lawful for a man to divorce his wife. Jesus refers them to Genesis 2:24 which says, “Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.” Jesus further says that as they have become one flesh, then what God has joined together, “let not man separate.”

When God gave His Command in Genesis 2:24, this was before the Hebrews, led by Moses, embarked on their 40-year journey to the Promised Land. In answer to Genesis 2:24, effectively, the Pharisees asked Jesus in Verse 7 of Matthew 19, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” They were referring to Deuteronomy 24:1, which, in the face of do’s and don’ts in Old Testament Law, implies that it is OK for a man to send his wife away if he gives her a certificate of divorce. Jesus answers in Verse 8, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.” Commentators have written that Jesus had the Hebrews’ wilderness journey in mind, inferring that because of man’s tendency for his heart to harden, which could disrupt the Hebrews’ journey to the Promised Land, it was necessary to allow a man to divorce his wife if he saw fit, and to give his wife a certificate to avoid any misunderstanding that may lead to violence or disruption amongst the rest of the Hebrews that may ensue from their separation.

On the basis of being allowed to acquire an understanding of the Scriptures by using reason as provided for in Isaiah 1:18, it seems that Jesus may have seen the issuance of a certificate as necessary in this extraordinary event of the Hebrews’ journey to the Promised Land, but a) having then arrived at the Promised Land, and b), “from the beginning” as Jesus says, the Law of Genesis 2:24 was in effect, so, on the basis of Genesis 2:24 alone a man cannot divorce his wife.

On the other hand, there is no similar Law that applies to a woman; so, taking into account other parts of the Scriptures, it seems a woman can divorce a man provided certain conditions are met, which, again apply to men. In Matthew 5:32 Jesus says “...whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.” Well, adultery is a sin. So, a woman can leave a man, but under God, she cannot marry another man. To a certain extent, this is in contrast to Deuteronomy 24, which implies it is not sinful for a man to marry a divorced woman...in fact, under Deuteronomy 24 a divorced woman can be passed around to any man, so long as that man is not her original husband.

Deuteronomy 24, not even taking other commentators into account, seems to apply just to the Hebrews in their journey to the Promised Land, since Verse 4 says “...And you shall not bring sin upon the land that the LORD your God is giving you for an inheritance.” Seems that to Jesus, after they settle in the Promised Land they revert back to Genesis 2:24 which faults the man for divorcing a woman, and Jesus adds the touch that whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Seems that in Jesus saying in Verse 6 of Matthew 19, “What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate,” he may be inferring that any marriage between a man and wife is an act of God, which a man cannot undo. On the other hand, a woman can undo it without punishment, so long as she doesn’t marry another man, putting the other man at risk for committing a sin.

I would argue one should always practice celibacy if they must divorce another; however, people aren't meant to be alone so for those who get divorced on by their ex(are cheated on etc) two divorced people of this kind could 'remarry', but it would be wrong of them to marry a never married person. Redemption should always be possible but a vow to God cannot be undone.

When a wrong has taken place and we cannot repair it we should instead avoid expanding it. For I am sure the sins of our spouses are visited on us: inheriting bad fruit though is not the same as growing it and must be disposed of differently.

So to your post, I take Jesus's comment within the context of the time. In that time, physical abuse to your wife/child wasn't the obvious case of divorce rather the wife seeking to join a wealthier family because her husband wasn't producing enough to support her, their children etc.

In this context, the permission of the husband avoided expanding the sin in the context of the greater good.

By the time of Jesus, the obvious case for divorce wasn't a destitution of the family but instead cheating. The emphasis being that a fruitful life comes from following the spirit of these laws not any legalistic interpretation of them. It is not enough to be technically correct, you must do the best you are able.

In any case, I can not see in that a gender which is given special rights.

 

[ZephBonkerer]

I am not understanding your point of view and hoping you can clarify.

I am assuming your not just talking about the more obvious examples of situations where say a divorce protects a child or removes someone from a life of sin/crime as I can certainly understand divorce for the greater good. Context always matters.

But, your posts seem to suggest this it is still 'good' simply because people grew apart and/or are not in love? In other words, what are we calling a 'failed' marriage here?

To me, even two strangers who don't really like each other can make a marriage work and find strength and happiness in it. Human's are not meant to be alone and I find it's mostly the modern epidemic of unhappiness that distorts people to disrespect and abuse their spouses to the point of forcing a so called 'failed' marriage. I sympathize no doubt, as it certainly possible one person alone is the 'problem', but it also seems silly to call it failed because the expectations are often so distorted that not even a basic level of respect is being shown on either side. I may be biased though as I have an amazing wife who I very much choose for love.

I wrote about my situation in other threads. In short, I can say that there is no comprehensive list in Scripture of grounds that are valid grounds for divorce.

A failed marriage is any marriage that is detrimental to one or more spouses, and where there are no good prospects for a successful reconciliation. In my case, while divorce was definitely on the table, I treated it as a remedy of last resort. I was tired of being neglected and dissed by someone who was supposed to be my wife. I told her that either this improves or I'm done with the marriage.

Yes, it was an ultimatum. What's wrong with ultimatums? She needed to understand that I would not put up with any more excuses. At the end of this, she ultimately decided she wanted out. This time, I was prepared to let her walk.

I heard from some people who seem to think my vows were binding, no matter how she behaves. Nonsense! I made no vow to be neglected, mistreated, etc. I told her if she wants to continue being my wife, she will have to act like one. I remain adamant that I bear no obligation to either continue to put up with her neglect and mistreatment or be condemned to celibacy for the rest of my life. (She will likely outlive me.) I am well within my right to date and remarry, and I intend to do so. If other believers have a problem with this, then that's their problem, not mine.

We know from examples given that immorality of a sexual nature (Matt 19:9) and desertion by an unbelieving spouse (1 Cor 7:15) are clearly valid grounds for divorce. But there is no good reason to believe that these are the only valid grounds. Those who claim otherwise are stretching other verses past the breaking point. (Romans 7:2-3 and 1 Cor 7:10-11 are commonly cited in support of this view). And what if you are abandoned by a spouse who claims to be a believer? Are you any less abandoned in such a case?

As for whether it is good to divorce for reasons not involving abuse, neglect, etc: I would consider this: why does marriage exist in the first place? Does marriage exist for its own sake? Some people seem to think divorce is this awful, horrendous thing and that marriage is this sacred cow, but I don't see it that way. Jesus didn't die on a cross to save marriage. He died to save people.