Who can baptise others in water

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Truthfully it is suppose to be Jesus Christ baptizing. If the person baptizing you is not doing it in his name and with out his Spirit, then your baptism is void: and you are yet in your sins, the old man.
Of course it requires someone to administer the sacrament and do it correctly. That would not absolutely have to be an ordained minister. Nurses baptize when someone is in imminent anger of death, for instance.

But the problem with trying to baptize yourself or have a friend do it is that, while the connection to God may be made, here on Earth it remains a private event. That means: 1) there is no tangible, acceptable record for later use in any church and 2) there is no reason to presume that the baptizer, who may have had the best of intentions, did the baptism according to Biblical standards so that it is valid.
 
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Site Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,420
6,801
✟917,638.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
You are not reading that verse correctly. Jesus did not baptize any but his disciples.


lol...that's why I posted it. I think you are not reading my post correctly.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Mydreams
Upvote 0

SwordmanJr

Double-edged Sword only
Nov 11, 2014
1,200
402
Oklahoma City
✟43,962.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Can only Pastor's or every believers have the right to give water baptism to other
I've never seen a job description anywhere in scripture specifically aiming everyone in the direction of the so-called "pastor", and I clearly don't see one that aligns with that creature who is today called "pastor"....except maybe one word.....hireling.

I also understand the tendency for spiritual babes still sucking on milk, who never rise up to maturity after sitting in pews for the 70 years of their lives listening to sermons, pointing to "pastor" as the one who "should" do it.

I baptized my own sons, and I would do so for other fathers who feel they would rather I do it for them (as unfortunate as that is). I do it for adult friends too. It doesn't have to be ritualistic and somber like so many religionists push upon each other. We do it with the understanding of what it symbolizes, and it's a celebration rather than a stoic, liturgical progression put on by a bunch of walking and talking dead people, with Dracula organ music playing in the background. To each his own, I suppose....

Jr.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Mydreams
Upvote 0

DamianWarS

Follower of Isa Al Masih
Site Supporter
May 15, 2008
9,486
3,322
✟858,457.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Can only Pastor's or every believers have the right to give water baptism to other
It's not just a right but a commandment. We are uncomfortable with it because we think in order for it to be done right a member of clergy needs to perform the task. This is untrue and churches should encourage the practise as it is an intrinsic part of evangelism. The western church evangelistic approach is simply get them in the church building and we'll do the rest. This is plain irresponsible and counter-gospel as it inherently divides life into holy places and secular places. (The church/pastor being the former) Christ tells us as we spread the Gospel we are to baptism new believers. So start with spreading the Gospel, then practise baptizing new believers. Your pastor may object but on what grounds? Certainly not biblical!
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Mydreams
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
The "do it yourself "variety of Christian evangelism has numerous pitfalls, however, which any of us should immediately realize.

While it may be all right to have a layperson conduct a baptism (or attempt one), especially in emergency situations, the additional idea that the visible church is somehow unwanted by God and is a thing to be avoided is ridiculous...and contrary to the Bible. At the very least, no one should go that way so long as there is a trained clergyperson who is willing to baptize.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Mydreams
Upvote 0

DamianWarS

Follower of Isa Al Masih
Site Supporter
May 15, 2008
9,486
3,322
✟858,457.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
The "do it yourself "variety of Christian evangelism has numerous pitfalls, however, which any of us should immediately realize.

While it may be all right to have a layperson conduct a baptism (or attempt one), especially in emergency situations, the additional idea that the visible church is somehow unwanted by God and is a thing to be avoided is ridiculous...and contrary to the Bible. At the very least, no one should go that way so long as there is a trained clergyperson who is willing to baptize.
We are called to baptize others and be in unity with each other not to disillusion people from the church. Why do you connect the former with the latter? Should we celebrate with new baptized believers or wag the finger? I choose celebrate.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Mydreams
Upvote 0

thecolorsblend

If God is your Father, who is your Mother?
Site Supporter
Jul 1, 2013
9,199
8,425
Gotham City, New Jersey
✟308,231.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Believers can baptize other believers. It is possible.

But at the same time, the fact that you can do it doesn't mean it's to be done. Best practice is for a clergyman to perform the procedure, unless circumstances demand otherwise.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Mydreams
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Site Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,420
6,801
✟917,638.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
The "do it yourself "variety of Christian evangelism has numerous pitfalls, however, which any of us should immediately realize.

While it may be all right to have a layperson conduct a baptism (or attempt one), especially in emergency situations, the additional idea that the visible church is somehow unwanted by God and is a thing to be avoided is ridiculous...and contrary to the Bible. At the very least, no one should go that way so long as there is a trained clergyperson who is willing to baptize.


Nonsense. The first Christians "did it themselves" and the one who was closest to being a a Pastor to them never baptized anyone.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Mydreams
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Nonsense. The first Christians "did it themselves" and the one who was closest to being a a Pastor to them never baptized anyone.
Amazing. Not only is there no record that supports such a theory, but it would mean that Philip did not baptize the eunuch as Acts 8 says he did, but also that Jesus' own instructions to the Apostles as given in the gospel of Matthew for them to go into all the world baptizing new believers...were completely disregarded by them.
 
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Site Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,420
6,801
✟917,638.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Amazing. Not only is there no record that supports such a theory,

It's scriptural fact not theory.

but it would mean that Philip did not baptize the eunuch as Acts 8 says he did, but also that Jesus' own instructions to the Apostles as given in the gospel of Matthew for them to go into all the world baptizing new believers...were completely disregarded by them.


You somehow managed to completely misunderstand what I was talking about but I don't know how you did that. I specifically spoke of the disciples like Philip baptizing while Christ never performed a water baptism. It proves that there wasn't some special person who was in charge of baptizing. Any of the disciples did and were commanded to, while Jesus himself did not. From that very beginning, the "Pastor" in charge of the earliest flock was not the designated baptizer.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: Mydreams
Upvote 0

SwordmanJr

Double-edged Sword only
Nov 11, 2014
1,200
402
Oklahoma City
✟43,962.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Um, the teachings of my Church?
Oh? So, does that make it a moral crisis if you don't obey that teaching from your religion, if that's really the position of your religion's leadership (since you provided no reference)?

Jr.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

SwordmanJr

Double-edged Sword only
Nov 11, 2014
1,200
402
Oklahoma City
✟43,962.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Amazing. Not only is there no record that supports such a theory, but it would mean that Philip did not baptize the eunuch as Acts 8 says he did, but also that Jesus' own instructions to the Apostles as given in the gospel of Matthew for them to go into all the world baptizing new believers...were completely disregarded by them.
Which of the apostles were told to do that, and when (since you provided no quote nor reference), because Paul, THE apostle to us Gentiles said the following in that regard:

"For Christ sent me NOT to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect." 1 Cor. 1:17 (emphasis mine)

Jr.
 
Upvote 0

SwordmanJr

Double-edged Sword only
Nov 11, 2014
1,200
402
Oklahoma City
✟43,962.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I specifically spoke of the disciples like Philip baptizing while Christ never performed a water baptism. It proves that there wasn't some special person who was in charge of baptizing. Any of the disciples did and were commanded to, while Jesus himself did not. From that very beginning, the "Pastor" in charge of the earliest flock was not the designated baptizer.
It appears that you have to try seeing things through the lenses and blinders of religionists to understand their dogmas. There are many things taught to them that do not align with scripture, especially traditions that many of them subjectively place on the same level as scripture, thus those strange things being made matters of moral crisis if not followed.

Personally, I have no problem with them following the edicts and rantings of their respective denominational religions. That has freed me up from having to feel as though their internal, cultic teachings have any universal authority, as if such actually emanated from the Lord.

The coming of Christ Jesus had the following impact, as indicated by John the Baptist himself:

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: (Matt. 3:11). [Emphasis mine.]

Did not that same Jesus state that we would do mightier things than He did in His earthly ministry? Jesus instructed them, in Mark 16:15, "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." The majority of the apostles remained with the Jews rather than obeying what was commanded of them to go and preach to "...all the world..." I'm sure the denominational religionists have some slick reasoning to provide as their defense for the actions of the majority of the apostles, and why they did not do as commanded.

And then in Matt. 28:19, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

The majority of the denominational religionists seem to think that still applies to water baptism when we're told that Jesus came to baptize with Holy Spirit and with fire. Gee whiz, we wouldn't want to follow Jesus' example in baptism, especially when we ourselves lack the spiritual stature to which that same Jesus has called His followers. Perhaps that is the reason their denominational religions remain fettered to the posts of ineffectiveness, with the majority of their followers never rising up to any level of spiritual maturity when that baptism of "fire" and "Holy Spirit" remain a distant thought mentioned only in passing while pasting cotton on bunny tails.

It's interesting how their respective religions seem to have developed cultic teachings whereby they draw strange lines of parallel with some things, and yet totally miss others that are legitimately consistent with what's written. I'm saying this not to smear the various denominational religions out there, but rather to shine a light on a topic that I've been studying for some years now as the reasoning behind the continued erosion in their numbers and their continued slide toward liberal theologies, coupled with churchianity history. I simply cannot accept the idea that, had the majority of their ranks actually been baptized with Holy Spirit and with fire, they would never have slid into the modern deterioration we see today; constantly sliding toward an acceptance of homosexual conduct, women a senior leadership as teaching authorities over men, and many other historically and biblically rejected concepts.

Jr.
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Which of the apostles were told to do that, and when (since you provided no quote nor reference), because Paul, THE apostle to us Gentiles said the following in that regard:

"For Christ sent me NOT to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect." 1 Cor. 1:17 (emphasis mine)

Jr.
When Christ gave the commission we read in Matthew, it was apparently to all the Apostles as they were at that time. Paul was not yet numbered among them.

Later, when he was called by God, he was given a special assignment which we all know about and which he pursued vigorously. In the passage you cite, he says that his particular role is to evangelize...which is true. That doesn't mean that he never baptized anyone, but if he did not, it still doesn't mean that any and every lay person in the early church routinely went about baptizing converts rather than the deacons and presbyters and of course "the Twelve."
 
Upvote 0

thecolorsblend

If God is your Father, who is your Mother?
Site Supporter
Jul 1, 2013
9,199
8,425
Gotham City, New Jersey
✟308,231.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Oh? So, does that make it a moral crisis if you don't obey that teaching from your religion, if that's really the position of your religion's leadership (since you provided no reference)?

Jr.
Forgive me but I don't see what "moral crisis" could possibly ensue from allowing clergymen to baptize people as a general policy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Albion
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

SwordmanJr

Double-edged Sword only
Nov 11, 2014
1,200
402
Oklahoma City
✟43,962.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Forgive me but I don't see what "moral crisis" could possibly ensue from allowing clergymen to baptize people as a general policy.
Oh, man. Are you serious? You've got to be joking since nobody said anything about there being a moral crisis with your so-called "clergy" class doing the baptisms. They can and do whatever you people hire them to do. That's why they're hirelings. Nothing more. When you hire them to do the baptisms for you, then they will do just that. When they teach their gullible followers and hiring authorities that THEY are the only ones authorized to baptize, that's where the problem lies.

Jr.
 
Upvote 0