Who are the tares?

[Zao is life]

Just wanted to know what others think about the identity of the tares. Reading what I've quoted below should make it obvious that I believe the tares refer to those who are members of the invisible part of the church that is an harlot (not visible to us, but visible to God). I'm not going to argue against your opinion, if you believe differently. I just want to know what others think.

Matthew 13
37 He answered and said to them, He who sows the good seed is the Son of man;
38 the field is the world; the good seed are the sons of the kingdom; but the tares are the sons of the evil one.
39 The enemy who sowed them is the Devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it shall be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send out His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who do iniquity (Greek: anomía, lawlessness)
42 and shall cast them into a furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous shall shine out like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

41 The Son of man shall send out His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who do iniquity (Greek: anomía, lawlessness).

It's the same word that is found in Matthew 7:23; Matthew 23:28; Matthew 24:12 (lawlessness abounding); and 2 Thessalonians 2:7, and it's related to the word describing the son of perdition as the man of lawlessness (Greek: ánomos) in 2 Thessalonians 2:8.

Matthew 7
21 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord! shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your name, and through Your name throw out demons, and through Your name do many wonderful works?
23 And then I will say to them I never knew you! Depart from Me, those working lawlessness! (Greek: anomía, lawlessness).
24 Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on a rock.

So, comparing it with Matthew 24:12 and all the other verses where the same word is found, who are the tares in Matthew 13:38?

41 The Son of man shall send out His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who do lawlessness.

Revelation 17
16 and the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked. And they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire.
17 For God gave into their hearts to do His mind, and to act with one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast until the words of God will be fulfilled.

 

[JohnB445]

I believe they are anybody who does not have the Holy Spirit. And that can include those who profess to be Christians.

Nobody can convince me that someone doing heinous crimes, without any stop and remorse has the Holy Spirit inside of them.

 

[Hammster]

I think they are part of the church in that they have entered into the covenant, but they are not regenerate.

 

[Danthemailman]

I think they are part of the church in that they have entered into the covenant, but they are not regenerate.

There are genuine Christians and there are nominal/pseudo Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers.

 

[trophy33]

Jews who did not believe in Christ.

 

[A_Thinker]

There are genuine Christians and there are nominal/pseudo Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers.

Scripture says that the source of the tares is the devil, and that they are purposely planted in among the wheat (i.e. believers). I believe that this would include those who see the Church as a route to personal gain (this was discussed in the New Testament letters of the Apostles).

Jude

4 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.
...

11 Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam’s error; they have been destroyed in Korah’s rebellion.

12 These people are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead. 13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.

14 Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones 15 to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” 16 These people are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage.

17 But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the people who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

I think the tares are what I call psudoChristians. These are those who say they are Christians but they deny the very divinity of Lord Jesus.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Just wanted to know what others think about the identity of the tares. Reading what I've quoted below should make it obvious that I believe the tares refer to those who are members of the invisible part of the church that is an harlot (not visible to us, but visible to God). I'm not going to argue against your opinion, if you believe differently. I just want to know what others think.

Matthew 13
37 He answered and said to them, He who sows the good seed is the Son of man;
38 the field is the world; the good seed are the sons of the kingdom; but the tares are the sons of the evil one.
39 The enemy who sowed them is the Devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it shall be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send out His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who do iniquity (Greek: anomía, lawlessness)
42 and shall cast them into a furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous shall shine out like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

41 The Son of man shall send out His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who do iniquity (Greek: anomía, lawlessness).

It's the same word that is found in Matthew 7:23; Matthew 23:28; Matthew 24:12 (lawlessness abounding); and 2 Thessalonians 2:7, and it's related to the word describing the son of perdition as the man of lawlessness (Greek: ánomos) in 2 Thessalonians 2:8.

Matthew 7
21 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord! shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your name, and through Your name throw out demons, and through Your name do many wonderful works?
23 And then I will say to them I never knew you! Depart from Me, those working lawlessness! (Greek: anomía, lawlessness).
24 Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on a rock.

So, comparing it with Matthew 24:12 and all the other verses where the same word is found, who are the tares in Matthew 13:38?

41 The Son of man shall send out His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who do lawlessness.

Revelation 17
16 and the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked. And they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire.
17 For God gave into their hearts to do His mind, and to act with one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast until the words of God will be fulfilled.

He said " the field is the world" so I am thinking it is everyone. The ressurection includes everyone as well. Some to everlasting life and others condemnation.
Blessings

 

[DavidPT]

He said " the field is the world" so I am thinking it is everyone. The ressurection includes everyone as well. Some to everlasting life and others condemnation.
Blessings

I'm not an agricultural type person, but what I have read about agriculture in the past, in the early stages tares resemble wheat. So much so that it's difficult to tell which is which. In this parable the wheat are obviously symbolizing Christians. Atheists, for example, do not resemble wheat during the early stages nor during any stage. Therefore, this alone tells us the lost in general is not meant by the tares. The tares have to resemble the wheat. That means they have to resemble Christians. Only those professing to be Christians can resemble Christians.

 

[TedT]

the tares are the sons of the evil one.
39 The enemy who sowed them is the Devil

...and the sons of the evil one are the demonic angels of Satan who were flung into the earth with him who on their death return to Sheol, Ps 9:17, to await being cast into the outer darkness, Matt 25:41, when the last sinful good seed repents and is made free from the dangers of the judgement, Matt 13:29-30, by their holiness.

 

[DavidPT]

Just wanted to know what others think about the identity of the tares. Reading what I've quoted below should make it obvious that I believe the tares refer to those who are members of the invisible part of the church that is an harlot (not visible to us, but visible to God). I'm not going to argue against your opinion, if you believe differently. I just want to know what others think.

Matthew 13
37 He answered and said to them, He who sows the good seed is the Son of man;
38 the field is the world; the good seed are the sons of the kingdom; but the tares are the sons of the evil one.
39 The enemy who sowed them is the Devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it shall be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send out His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who do iniquity (Greek: anomía, lawlessness)
42 and shall cast them into a furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous shall shine out like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

41 The Son of man shall send out His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who do iniquity (Greek: anomía, lawlessness).

It's the same word that is found in Matthew 7:23; Matthew 23:28; Matthew 24:12 (lawlessness abounding); and 2 Thessalonians 2:7, and it's related to the word describing the son of perdition as the man of lawlessness (Greek: ánomos) in 2 Thessalonians 2:8.

Matthew 7
21 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord! shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your name, and through Your name throw out demons, and through Your name do many wonderful works?
23 And then I will say to them I never knew you! Depart from Me, those working lawlessness! (Greek: anomía, lawlessness).
24 Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on a rock.

So, comparing it with Matthew 24:12 and all the other verses where the same word is found, who are the tares in Matthew 13:38?

41 The Son of man shall send out His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who do lawlessness.

Revelation 17
16 and the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked. And they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire.
17 For God gave into their hearts to do His mind, and to act with one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast until the words of God will be fulfilled.

Maybe you will be one of the first ones on this board to actually agree with me about the identity of the goats recorded in Matthew 25? You are not obligated to agree if you simply don't agree, yet, the fact it's obvious from the OP that you have great insight into some of these things, if you don't get it probably no one else ever will either. They are meaning some of these same tares. 2 groups are being compared, that being sheep and goats. In this parable in Matthew 13 there are also 2 groups being compared, wheat and tares. The wheat is obviously meaning Christians, and so are the sheep obviously meaning Christians. Therefore, IMO, since you brought up Matthew 7, it is during the sheep and goats judgment, not during the great white throne judgment, where Jesus says to those who have professed to have done many wonderful works in His name, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Towards the end of Matthew 24 and in Matthew 25 leading up to this judgment, Jesus had been describing two types of professed servants of His, profitable servants and unprofitable servants. In Matthew 7:19 Jesus indicated this---Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Now compare with the fruit the sheep brought forth and the fruit the goats brought forth.

This is the fruit the sheep brought forth.

Matthew 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

This is the fruit the goats brought forth.

Matthew 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[Zao is life]

Maybe you will be one of the first ones on this board to actually agree with me about the identity of the goats recorded in Matthew 25? You are not obligated to agree if you simply don't agree, yet, the fact it's obvious from the OP that you have great insight into some of these things, if you don't get it probably no one else ever will either. They are meaning some of these same tares. 2 groups are being compared, that being sheep and goats. In this parable in Matthew 13 there are also 2 groups being compared, wheat and tares. The wheat is obviously meaning Christians, and so are the sheep obviously meaning Christians. Therefore, IMO, since you brought up Matthew 7, it is during the sheep and goats judgment, not during the great white throne judgment, where Jesus says to those who have professed to have done many wonderful works in His name, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Towards the end of Matthew 24 and in Matthew 25 leading up to this judgment, Jesus had been describing two types of professed servants of His, profitable servants and unprofitable servants. In Matthew 7:19 Jesus indicated this---Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Now compare with the fruit the sheep brought forth and the fruit the goats brought forth.

This is the fruit the sheep brought forth.

Matthew 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

This is the fruit the goats brought forth.

Matthew 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

I think maybe you're asking the wrong question (so was I for a long time) .

Maybe the question we should as is, Does Jesus regard only those who believe in Him + those who say they believe in Him as a flock of sheep vs.a herd of goats?

Or does He include, with the nations who are unbelievers, those who say they believe in Him but whose works show the opposite? Matthew 7:23 and Matthew 25:12 are both marked by the Lord's statement, "I never knew you!"

So those to whom Jesus says, "I do not know you", are they counted among those in the "all nations" who are not saved?

Apparently so. They're not the Lord's sheep = they're all goats:

Galatians 3 (all nations meant to be blessed in the seed of Abraham):
8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the nations through faith, preached the gospel before to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all nations be blessed."
9 So then those of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

These are the ones who don't believe:

John 10
25 Jesus answered them, I told you and you did not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me.
26 But you did not believe because you are not of My sheep. As I said to you,
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

But there are also those mentioned in Matthew 25 who say they believe but whose works show the opposite (notice how they are all, those who say they believe and unbelievers alike, being judged by their works).

I just did a quick search in the Internet on the difference between the nature of sheep vs. goats. Extract from:

What Is the Difference Between Sheep and Goats?

"Sheep follow the voice of their shepherd and trust him to lead them to food, water and safety. If they wander, which some do, the shepherd will go out and rescue them and bring them back to the safety of the flock. Sheep separated from their shepherd and flock are nervous and vulnerable because they have no defensive or offensive survival abilities.

A goat, however, doesn’t follow anyone. A herd of goats goes where it wants, and the goatherd follows behind."

"Shepherds protect sheep from their environment, whereas goatherds protect the environment from their goats." (Goats not only do their own thing, they tend to be destructive).

So if sheep = believers in John 10:25-27, then unbelievers, plus those who say they believe but whose works show the opposite = ?

Jesus has already said He knows neither of the latter two groups, i.e of those who are not sheep:

Matthew 7
22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your name, and through Your name throw out demons, and through Your name do many wonderful works?
23 And then I will say to them I never knew you! Depart from Me, those working lawlessness!

Matthew 25
11 Afterwards the other virgins came also, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Truly I say to you, I do not know you.

So I'd say it's all nations being judged (just like the temple being measured in Revelation 11:1-2 to count the sheep in the sanctuary, but the outer court not being measured, because they are not in the holy place, the sanctuary. Jesus doesn't know them. They are all goats).

 

[DavidPT]

I think maybe you're asking the wrong question (so was I for a long time) .

Maybe the question we should as is, Does Jesus regard only those who believe in Him + those who say they believe in Him as a flock of sheep vs.a herd of goats?

Or does He include, with the nations who are unbelievers, those who say they believe in Him but whose works show the opposite? Matthew 7:23 and Matthew 25:12 are both marked by the Lord's statement, "I never knew you!"

So those to whom Jesus says, "I do not know you", are they counted among those in the "all nations" who are not saved?

Apparently so. They're not the Lord's sheep = they're all goats:

Galatians 3 (all nations meant to be blessed in the seed of Abraham):
8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the nations through faith, preached the gospel before to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all nations be blessed."
9 So then those of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

These are the ones who don't believe:

John 10
25 Jesus answered them, I told you and you did not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me.
26 But you did not believe because you are not of My sheep. As I said to you,
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

But there are also those mentioned in Matthew 25 who say they believe but whose works show the opposite (notice how they are all, those who say they believe and unbelievers alike, being judged by their works).

I just did a quick search in the Internet on the difference between the nature of sheep vs. goats. Extract from:

What Is the Difference Between Sheep and Goats?

"Sheep follow the voice of their shepherd and trust him to lead them to food, water and safety. If they wander, which some do, the shepherd will go out and rescue them and bring them back to the safety of the flock. Sheep separated from their shepherd and flock are nervous and vulnerable because they have no defensive or offensive survival abilities.

A goat, however, doesn’t follow anyone. A herd of goats goes where it wants, and the goatherd follows behind."

"Shepherds protect sheep from their environment, whereas goatherds protect the environment from their goats." (Goats not only do their own thing, they tend to be destructive).

So if sheep = believers in John 10:25-27, then unbelievers, plus those who say they believe but whose works show the opposite = ?

Jesus has already said He knows neither of the latter two groups, i.e of those who are not sheep:

Matthew 7
22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your name, and through Your name throw out demons, and through Your name do many wonderful works?
23 And then I will say to them I never knew you! Depart from Me, those working lawlessness!

Matthew 25
11 Afterwards the other virgins came also, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Truly I say to you, I do not know you.

So I'd say it's all nations being judged (just like the temple being measured in Revelation 11:1-2 to count the sheep in the sanctuary, but the outer court not being measured, because they are not in the holy place, the sanctuary. Jesus doesn't know them. They are all goats).

The following is an answer to the question posed at that site I give a link to at the bottom, where this person is understanding it pretty much like I am. I might not have anyone on this board on the same page with me about some of these things, yet I apparently have some on the same page with me elsewhere though, or that I'm on the same page with them.

-----------------------------------------
Goats and sheep are indistinguishable from a distance in the same way that wheat and tares are indistinguishable. Both sheep and goats are also "kosher" animals, which makes them similar. Thus this judgment is not between the righteous (believers) and wicked (unbelievers), but between the righteous (believers) and the apparent-righteous (unbelievers). In other words, the scope of this judgment is for the declared followers of the shepherd, who are ostensibly "kosher" creatures.

Ezekiel 20:33-44 appears to be the parallel account in the Hebrew Bible to this passage in Matthew, when the Lord God will one day regather his people from the nations of the world in order to be their king. That is, this regathering will be a mix of the righteous (believers) and the apparent-righteous (unbelievers). Thus he will judge his people in the "wilderness of the peoples" (Ezek 20:35). The comparison here is to the wilderness of the land of Egypt (Ezek 20:36), where the Lord had "purged" his people in order to prevent "rebels and transgressors" from entering the Promised Land. Thus the scope of judgment is limited to the declared followers of the Lord. As the shepherd he will make his people "pass under the rod" (Ezek 20:37). In this context, the goats will undergo the following.

Matthew 7:21-23 (NASB) 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’”

At the end of Matthew 25:31-46 the announcement is made: “These (goats) will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous (sheep) into eternal life.” That is, the sheep are the righteous (believers) and the goats are the unrighteous (unbelievers) notwithstanding that both groups were the ostensible and therefore self-declared followers of the Lord.

The idea here is that those "believers" who love other "believers" through both their words and deeds are indeed the sheep (cf. Ja 2:15-17 and 1 Jn 3:18), whereas the remainder (the goats) are those whose spiritual gifts (which were prophesying, healing, miracles) were of no use or benefit to the sheep (hunger, thirst, nakedness, sickness, and their loneliness in incarceration) and therefore the goats were never "known" by the Lord.

Who are the Sheep and the Goats in Matthew 25?

 

[Matt5]

Just wanted to know what others think about the identity of the tares. Reading what I've quoted below should make it obvious that I believe the tares refer to those who are members of the invisible part of the church that is an harlot (not visible to us, but visible to God). I'm not going to argue against your opinion, if you believe differently. I just want to know what others think.

Matthew 13
37 He answered and said to them, He who sows the good seed is the Son of man;
38 the field is the world; the good seed are the sons of the kingdom; but the tares are the sons of the evil one.
39 The enemy who sowed them is the Devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it shall be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send out His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who do iniquity (Greek: anomía, lawlessness)
42 and shall cast them into a furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous shall shine out like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

41 The Son of man shall send out His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who do iniquity (Greek: anomía, lawlessness).

It's the same word that is found in Matthew 7:23; Matthew 23:28; Matthew 24:12 (lawlessness abounding); and 2 Thessalonians 2:7, and it's related to the word describing the son of perdition as the man of lawlessness (Greek: ánomos) in 2 Thessalonians 2:8.

Matthew 7
21 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord! shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your name, and through Your name throw out demons, and through Your name do many wonderful works?
23 And then I will say to them I never knew you! Depart from Me, those working lawlessness! (Greek: anomía, lawlessness).
24 Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on a rock.

So, comparing it with Matthew 24:12 and all the other verses where the same word is found, who are the tares in Matthew 13:38?

41 The Son of man shall send out His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who do lawlessness.

Revelation 17
16 and the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked. And they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire.
17 For God gave into their hearts to do His mind, and to act with one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast until the words of God will be fulfilled.

A tare is everybody except these people:

1. They die rather than take the mark.
2. They avoid the mark by hiding out away from civilization.

When Jesus comes at the end the people who are talking to him are Christians who took the mark. That means they are no longer Christian.

Note: There are (almost) no Christians waiting for Jesus when he arrives. Maybe some small groups hiding out but that's about it. The whole "mark" thing wiped them out.

 

[Zao is life]

The following is an answer to the question posed at that site I give a link to at the bottom, where this person is understanding it pretty much like I am. I might not have anyone on this board on the same page with me about some of these things, yet I apparently have some on the same page with me elsewhere though, or that I'm on the same page with them.

-----------------------------------------
Goats and sheep are indistinguishable from a distance in the same way that wheat and tares are indistinguishable. Both sheep and goats are also "kosher" animals, which makes them similar. Thus this judgment is not between the righteous (believers) and wicked (unbelievers), but between the righteous (believers) and the apparent-righteous (unbelievers). In other words, the scope of this judgment is for the declared followers of the shepherd, who are ostensibly "kosher" creatures.

Ezekiel 20:33-44 appears to be the parallel account in the Hebrew Bible to this passage in Matthew, when the Lord God will one day regather his people from the nations of the world in order to be their king. That is, this regathering will be a mix of the righteous (believers) and the apparent-righteous (unbelievers). Thus he will judge his people in the "wilderness of the peoples" (Ezek 20:35). The comparison here is to the wilderness of the land of Egypt (Ezek 20:36), where the Lord had "purged" his people in order to prevent "rebels and transgressors" from entering the Promised Land. Thus the scope of judgment is limited to the declared followers of the Lord. As the shepherd he will make his people "pass under the rod" (Ezek 20:37). In this context, the goats will undergo the following.

Matthew 7:21-23 (NASB) 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’”

At the end of Matthew 25:31-46 the announcement is made: “These (goats) will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous (sheep) into eternal life.” That is, the sheep are the righteous (believers) and the goats are the unrighteous (unbelievers) notwithstanding that both groups were the ostensible and therefore self-declared followers of the Lord.

The idea here is that those "believers" who love other "believers" through both their words and deeds are indeed the sheep (cf. Ja 2:15-17 and 1 Jn 3:18), whereas the remainder (the goats) are those whose spiritual gifts (which were prophesying, healing, miracles) were of no use or benefit to the sheep (hunger, thirst, nakedness, sickness, and their loneliness in incarceration) and therefore the goats were never "known" by the Lord.

Who are the Sheep and the Goats in Matthew 25?

The reason why I'm cautious about interpreting it the above way is because of the words "all nations". My own human intellect doesn't grant me the liberty to assume the words "all nations" does not mean all nations.

 

[Zao is life]

A tare is everybody except these people:

1. They die rather than take the mark.
2. They avoid the mark by hiding out away from civilization.

When Jesus comes at the end the people who are talking to him are Christians who took the mark. That means they are no longer Christian.

Note: There are (almost) no Christians waiting for Jesus when he arrives. Maybe some small groups hiding out but that's about it. The whole "mark" thing wiped them out.

Thanks Matt5. That was interesting. I promised not to say whether I agree or disagree, but yes, there is no way that anyone who takes the mark is going to be counted among the Lord's sheep. All of this is very sobering stuff for me. Not that I've been intoxicated with "winds of doctrine", but for want of a better word than the word "scary", I'll use the word "sobering".

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Just wanted to know what others think about the identity of the tares. Reading what I've quoted below should make it obvious that I believe the tares refer to those who are members of the invisible part of the church that is an harlot (not visible to us, but visible to God). I'm not going to argue against your opinion, if you believe differently. I just want to know what others think.

Matthew 13
37 He answered and said to them, He who sows the good seed is the Son of man;
38 the field is the world; the good seed are the sons of the kingdom; but the tares are the sons of the evil one.
39 The enemy who sowed them is the Devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it shall be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send out His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who do iniquity (Greek: anomía, lawlessness)
42 and shall cast them into a furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous shall shine out like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

41 The Son of man shall send out His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who do iniquity (Greek: anomía, lawlessness).

It's the same word that is found in Matthew 7:23; Matthew 23:28; Matthew 24:12 (lawlessness abounding); and 2 Thessalonians 2:7, and it's related to the word describing the son of perdition as the man of lawlessness (Greek: ánomos) in 2 Thessalonians 2:8.

Matthew 7
21 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord! shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your name, and through Your name throw out demons, and through Your name do many wonderful works?
23 And then I will say to them I never knew you! Depart from Me, those working lawlessness! (Greek: anomía, lawlessness).
24 Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on a rock.

So, comparing it with Matthew 24:12 and all the other verses where the same word is found, who are the tares in Matthew 13:38?

41 The Son of man shall send out His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who do lawlessness.

Revelation 17
16 and the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked. And they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire.
17 For God gave into their hearts to do His mind, and to act with one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast until the words of God will be fulfilled.

I understand that there were times when Jesus contrasted true believers with those who pretended to be true believers or thought they were, but were not. But, I don't think that is what He was doing in the parable of the wheat and tares.

In Matthew 13:38 Jesus said the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the evil one, which is the devil, Satan.

In my view all people are either part of Christ's kingdom or they are part of Satan's kingdom. Jesus Himself said in Matthew 12:30 “Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters". So, Jesus looks at everyone as being part of two groups. Those who are with Him (wheat/good fish/sheep/righteous/saved, etc.) and those who are not with Him and are instead against Him (tares/bad fish/goats/wicked/lost, etc.).

Shortly after telling the parable of the wheat and tares, Jesus told another short parable about the kingdom of heaven and then followed that up with this parable which is similar to the parable of the wheat and tares and, in my opinion, is speaking of the same two groups of people but in a different way (represented as good and bad fish instead of wheat and tares this time).

Matthew 13:47 “Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. 48 When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. 49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

So, the parable is about a fishing net that is let down into a lake that caught "all kinds of fish" until it was full. The fish obviously figuratively represent people. Since it's talking about all kinds of fish and the net being full, then we can conclude that this is talking about all people, in my opinion. And they are all separated into two groups with the good fish being collected in baskets and the bad being thrown away. That represents the wicked people being separate from the righteous. The wicked are thrown "into the blazing furnace", which, to me, is the same event as those whose names are not in the book of life being cast into the lake of fire (Rev 20:15).

There's one other way to look at the parable of the wheat and tares in terms of who the wheat and tares represent. Jesus said that the good seed/wheat represented the children of the kingdom/the righteous and they inherit "the kingdom of their Father" (Matt 13:43). All of those who are saved will inherit the kingdom of our Father. That happens at "the end" when Jesus will deliver the kingdom to the Father, according to Paul (1 Cor 15:24). The end of what? The age? I think so.

I think most of us, whether Premil or Amil, would agree that "the end" Paul refers to in 1 Cor 15:24 will occur after the thousand years (and Satan's little season). When else will the good seed/wheat/children of the kingdom/the righteous inherit "the kingdom of their Father" except at "the end" when Jesus delivers the kingdom to the Father? So, to me, the end of the age is the same as "the end" that Paul references in 1 Cor 15:24. This means that the tares represent those whose names are not written in the book of life, since those are the ones who are cast into the fire (Rev 20:15) at the time when the end comes and the kingdom is delivered to the Father.

 

[DavidPT]

The reason why I'm cautious about interpreting it the above way is because of the words "all nations". My own human intellect doesn't grant me the liberty to assume the words "all nations" does not mean all nations.

I don't see all nations being a problem since that's exactly where those professing to be Christians are going to be located when Jesus returns, within all nations. It's not like they are going to be found in only one or two locations. They are going to be found globally, and then they have to be gathered from where they are in order to be at this judgment.

This judgment happens at the 2nd coming. If this judgment is meaning the goats equal all the lost, rather than unprofitable servants of Christ, that can only mean one thing, Amils have been right all along, this judgment and the GWTJ are one and the same. Thus no thousand years after the 2nd coming, since the GWTJ is obviously after the thousand years.

Thus no way to fulfill any of the following Scriptures below since it obviously requires more than 24 hours, yet it isn't meaning for all eternity, because even Christ Himself eventually puts down all authority and power. And when does Christ grant them this authority to begin with? When He returns and sits upon His throne of glory. Matthew 25:31 makes it crystal clear as to when that is meaning.

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Luke 22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

 

[Halbhh]

Just wanted to know what others think about the identity of the tares. Reading what I've quoted below should make it obvious that I believe the tares refer to those who are members of the invisible part of the church that is an harlot (not visible to us, but visible to God). I'm not going to argue against your opinion, if you believe differently. I just want to know what others think.

Matthew 13
37 He answered and said to them, He who sows the good seed is the Son of man;
38 the field is the world; the good seed are the sons of the kingdom; but the tares are the sons of the evil one.
39 The enemy who sowed them is the Devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it shall be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send out His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who do iniquity (Greek: anomía, lawlessness)
42 and shall cast them into a furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous shall shine out like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

41 The Son of man shall send out His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who do iniquity (Greek: anomía, lawlessness).

It's the same word that is found in Matthew 7:23; Matthew 23:28; Matthew 24:12 (lawlessness abounding); and 2 Thessalonians 2:7, and it's related to the word describing the son of perdition as the man of lawlessness (Greek: ánomos) in 2 Thessalonians 2:8.

Matthew 7
21 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord! shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your name, and through Your name throw out demons, and through Your name do many wonderful works?
23 And then I will say to them I never knew you! Depart from Me, those working lawlessness! (Greek: anomía, lawlessness).
24 Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on a rock.

So, comparing it with Matthew 24:12 and all the other verses where the same word is found, who are the tares in Matthew 13:38?

41 The Son of man shall send out His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who do lawlessness.

Revelation 17
16 and the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked. And they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire.
17 For God gave into their hearts to do His mind, and to act with one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast until the words of God will be fulfilled.

Those that become vessels for destruction, the tares, also will get delusion(s):

10and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. 2 Thessalonians 2 NIV

Examples of delusions range from believing in flat earth to the somewhat less obvious but telling delusions some have like like denying global warming or believing in Trump as savior. But possibly the most key delusions are to believe such things as believing one has nothing to repent of (as Trump once infamously said) (also, consider an example in scripture: Luke 18:9-14), and other critical (not merely arguable, but key to salvation) matters of faith.


But we also learn in scripture that it's still possible to repent, until the end of one's mortal life. Names are added and/or removed to the Book of Life we learn in scripture....

 

[Zao is life]

I don't see all nations being a problem since that's exactly where those professing to be Christians are going to be located when Jesus returns, within all nations. It's not like they are going to be found in only one or two locations. They are going to be found globally, and then they have to be gathered from where they are in order to be at this judgment.

I've also considered what you are saying above. To me, the words "out of His Kingdom" in Matthew 13:41 suggest or imply the taking out of His Kingdom what was part of His Kingdom. i.e the tares (because nothing that was never in, or part of the Kingdom of Christ can be removed from His Kingdom).

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Luke 22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

It obviously requires more than 24 hours, yet it isn't meaning for all eternity, because even Christ Himself eventually puts down all authority and power.

And when does Christ grant them this authority to begin with? When He returns and sits upon His throne of glory. Matthew 25:31 makes it crystal clear as to when that is meaning.

I do see what you mean. Also, I've never assumed that "judging the twelve tribes of Israel" implies merely judging between the sheep and the goats, but also implies ruling over them, just as at first the judges of Israel did, and then the kings.

BUT my human intellect leaves me with a good few questions unanswered, when I consider the following:

THE PROMISES TO THOSE WHO OVERCOME:-

(1) They will eat of the Tree of Life (Revelation 2:7)
(2) They will not be hurt by the Second Death (Revelation 2:11)
(3) They will eat Hidden Manna and receive a New Name (Revelation 2:17)
(4) Their names will not be blotted out of the Book of Life (Revelation 3:5)
(5) They will be made a Pillar in the Temple of God (Revelation 3:12, suggesting permanent residence in the Temple of God)
(6) They will inherit All Things (Revelation 21:7)
(7) They will sit with Christ in His Throne (Revelation 3:21)
(8) They will be given power over the nations (Revelation 2:26)

βασιλεύσει (He will reign) forever and ever: Revelation 11:15 (Christ).
βασιλεύσουσιν (they will reign) on the earth: Revelation 5:10 (those who overcome).
βασιλεύσουσιν (they will reign) with Christ a thousand years: Revelation 20:6 (those who overcome).
βασιλεύσουσιν (they will reign) forever and ever: Revelation 22:5.

Revelation 22:5 (new heavens & earth)
“And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God gives them light: and they will reign (βασιλεύσουσιν) for ever and ever.”

So the unanswered questions in my human intellect are:-

1. Who are "they" that Revelation 22:5 says will reign forever and ever?
2. Are they reigning now?
3. Will they only begin to reign after Christ returns?
4. How long will they reign?
5. What about what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:24?

The Revelation assumes that we will understand, and know the answers to the above questions, but for me the line between metaphor, hyperbole, simile and symbolism on one hand, and the realities they represent on the other hand, are (for my human intellect) far too indistinct in some parts of Apocalyptic/prophetic scripture for my dim eyes to see 100% clearly what is being said.

@DavidPT Also,

The word dominion and the word reign are closely linked, and what is Christ's first and only purpose?

Dominion:

Psalm 19
13 Keep back your servant also from arrogant sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in your sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

Paul speaks about our deliverance from the dominion of sin in Romans 6:6-14.

Christ came as the sacrifice for our sins and to free us from bondage to sin (John 8:33-36; Romans 7:14-25).

Ephesians 1
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.

So I think we should understand all Revelation's statements that use the word "reigning" in reference to the saints, in terms of the dominion of sin, Christ's deliverance from sin, and reigning over sin as the basis and reason of all Christ's work.