Which statement is more "scriptural"?

[Iambatman2u]

duplicate

 

[Iambatman2u]

I couldn't vote for either.

 

[Iambatman2u]

AWESOME! you actually have answered an OP - that's the first in a long time.

Getting to the point of less of me and more of Him, IMHO, would include what I concentrate my time and effort on.

Less of me would include just that - less of me.

Not what I do or say, but what God is doing or saying.

When my focus becomes God drive, then I start to fade away. My sins become less frequent because my focus is on God, not me. I become more pleasing to the Master because, like Jesus I do what I see Father do and say what the Holy Spirit is saying.

Realizing that I have already received the fullness of Him takes all the effort out of trying to get something from Him by my words and actions.

Look at how Paul prayed for the church:

Eph 1:16 [For I always pray to] the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, that He may grant you a spirit of wisdom and revelation [of insight into mysteries and secrets] in the [deep and intimate] knowledge of Him,

18 By having the eyes of your heart flooded with light, so that you can know and understand the hope to which He has called you, and how rich is His glorious inheritance in the saints (His set-apart ones),

19 And [so that you can know and understand] what is the immeasurable and unlimited and surpassing greatness of His power in and for us who believe, as demonstrated in the working of His mighty strength,

20 Which He exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His [own] right hand in the heavenly [places],

21 Far above all rule and authority and power and dominion and every name that is named [above every title that can be conferred], not only in this age and in this world, but also in the age and the world which are to come.

22 And He has put all things under His feet and has appointed Him the universal and supreme Head of the church [a headship exercised throughout the church],

23 Which is His body, the fullness of Him Who fills all in all [for in that body lives the full measure of Him Who makes everything complete, and Who fills everything everywhere with Himself].​

Or how about here:

Eph 3:14 For this reason [seeing the greatness of this plan by which you are built together in Christ], I bow my knees before the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

15 For Whom every family in heaven and on earth is named [that Father from Whom all fatherhood takes its title and derives its name].

16 May He grant you out of the rich treasury of His glory to be strengthened and reinforced with mighty power in the inner man by the [Holy] Spirit [Himself indwelling your innermost being and personality].

17 May Christ through your faith [actually] dwell (settle down, abide, make His permanent home) in your hearts! May you be rooted deep in love and founded securely on love,

18 That you may have the power and be strong to apprehend and grasp with all the saints [God’s devoted people, the experience of that love] what is the breadth and length and height and depth [of it];

19 [That you may really come] to know [practically, [e]through experience for yourselves] the love of Christ, which far surpasses [f]mere knowledge [without experience]; that you may be filled [through all your being] [g]unto all the fullness of God [may have the richest measure of the divine Presence, and [h]become a body wholly filled and flooded with God Himself]!

20 Now to Him Who, by (in consequence of) the [action of His] power that is at work within us, is able to [carry out His purpose and] do superabundantly, far over and above all that we [dare] ask or think [infinitely beyond our highest prayers, desires, thoughts, hopes, or dreams]—

21 To Him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations forever and ever. Amen (so be it).
​

Or here:

Col 19 For this reason we also, from the day we heard of it, have not ceased to pray and make [[g]special] request for you, [asking] that you may be filled with the [h]full (deep and clear) knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom [in comprehensive insight into the ways and purposes of God] and in understanding and discernment of spiritual things—

10 That you may walk (live and conduct yourselves) in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to Him and [j]desiring to please Him in all things, bearing fruit in every good work and steadily growing and increasing in and by the knowledge of God [with fuller, deeper, and clearer insight, [k]acquaintance, and recognition].

11 [We pray] that you may be invigorated and strengthened with all power according to the might of His glory, [to exercise] every kind of endurance and patience (perseverance and forbearance) with joy,

12 Giving thanks to the Father, Who has qualified and made us fit to share the [l]portion which is the inheritance of the saints (God’s holy people) in the Light.

13 [The Father] has delivered and [m]drawn us to Himself out of the control and the dominion of darkness and has transferred us into the kingdom of the Son [n]of His love,

14 In Whom we have our redemption through His blood, [which means] the forgiveness of our sins.​

or here:

Phil 1:9 And this I pray: that your love may abound yet more and more and extend to its fullest development in knowledge and all keen insight [that your love may [d]display itself in greater depth of acquaintance and more comprehensive discernment],

10 So that you may surely learn to sense what is vital, and approve and prize what is excellent and of real value [recognizing the highest and the best, and distinguishing the moral differences], and that you may be untainted and pure and unerring and blameless [so that with hearts sincere and certain and unsullied, you may approach] the day of Christ [not stumbling nor causing others to stumble].

11 May you abound in and be filled with the fruits of righteousness (of right standing with God and right doing) which come through Jesus Christ (the Anointed One), to the honor and praise of God [[e]that His glory may be both manifested and recognized].​

Here is Paul praying four time for three different churches spanning 15 years or so of ministry -

Why doesn't he pray for brokenness?

Hmmm...... they had just as many problems as we do - sexual immorality in the church - having to put out immoral brothers - people dropping dead for lying to the Holy Spirit.

Ever think maybe he got more results because he knew how to pray more effectively?

Now that is an interesting question. I need to run this through the Bat Scripture comparison data relief computer.

 

[probinson]

AWESOME! you actually have answered an OP - that's the first in a long time.

It's unfortunate that this is how you chose to start your response. Your entire post just said that someone following after God so closely would be able to restrain their flesh from taking personal digs. Don't you see that rude (and untrue) comments like this simply undermines what you're saying?

When Paul prayed for those churches, he did so because genuinely cared for the people he was praying for. He wasn't trying to win points in a discussion. Perhaps that's the reason he had more success.

See, you and I aren't all that far apart in what we believe on this topic, but the delivery of your message does not convey the genuineness that it once did.

I find that unfortunate, because the truth of the matter is that you, gideon, myself, Yitzchak, Bryan and EVERY SINGLE PERSON ON THIS FORUM could learn much from one another if we'd truly begin to realize and act like we don't have all the answers ourselves and recognize our need for one another.

 

[Always in His Presence]

It's unfortunate that this is how you chose to start your response. Your entire post just said that someone following after God so closely would be able to restrain their flesh from taking personal digs. Don't you see that rude (and untrue) comments like this simply undermines what you're saying?

When Paul prayed for those churches, he did so because genuinely cared for the people he was praying for. He wasn't trying to win points in a discussion. Perhaps that's the reason he had more success.

Pete, what did the OP ask for? Which was most scriptural. Right

What was my reply?

Neither - and then I told him why I felt that way. We even had a couple more clarifying post about it.

I don't know what your problem is, but get over yourself. I wasn't correcting him, I wasn't attacking him I was giving what he asked for. Along with an explanation. YOU somehow found fault in it. I don't know how or why but you did.

That's not my problem, but yours.

Did you reply to the OP. no, the first thing you did was take offence at what I said and then swiped at me.

I don't know what's eating you, though I am pretty sure you will once again offer a multi pronged answer and somehow shift the blame on me.

When you do, I'll just place you on ignore.

 

[probinson]

Pete, what did the OP ask for? Which was most scriptural. Right

What was my reply?

Neither - and then I told him why I felt that way. We even had a couple more clarifying post about it.

I don't know what your problem is, but get over yourself. I wasn't correcting him, I wasn't attacking him I was giving what he asked for. Along with an explanation. YOU somehow found fault in it. I don't know how or why but you did.

I wasn't correcting you. I didn't even quote your post. I simply made a post myself that you apparently took issue with and then swiped at me. Maybe my post hit a little too close to home? Or perhaps you should try following your own advice and "get over yourself".

Did you reply to the OP. no, the first thing you did was take offence at what I said and then swiped at me.

I didn't "swipe" at anyone. I simply offered another option for the poll. However, your posts here have demonstrated, in spades, that it probably would have been a good option to add.

When you do, I'll just place you on ignore.

You sure do write off and discard an awful lot of people. I imagine that ignore list of yours must be quite long by now.

Here's one last suggestion since I'm apparently being added to your ever-expanding list of people you have no need of; if you're going to ignore someone, why don't you just try actually ignoring them instead of making a public announcement about your intent to ignore them. That's just silly.

As to the OP, as we can see by the bulk of the posts here at CF in this Spirit-filled forum (and in this thread), we've got all the Holy Spirit we need, and He's quite obviously got all of us. The fruit of the Spirit (for those who may have forgotten, those fruits include love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control) is almost too overwhelming to contain...

 

[Always in His Presence]

Getting to the point of less of me and more of Him, IMHO, would include what I concentrate my time and effort on.

Less of me would include just that - less of me.

Not what I do or say, but what God is doing or saying.

When my focus becomes God drive, then I start to fade away. My sins become less frequent because my focus is on God, not me. I become more pleasing to the Master because, like Jesus I do what I see Father do and say what the Holy Spirit is saying.

Realizing that I have already received the fullness of Him takes all the effort out of trying to get something from Him by my words and o
actions.

Look at how Paul prayed for the church:

Eph 1:16 [For I always pray to] the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, that He may grant you a spirit of wisdom and revelation [of insight into mysteries and secrets] in the [deep and intimate] knowledge of Him,

18 By having the eyes of your heart flooded with light, so that you can know and understand the hope to which He has called you, and how rich is His glorious inheritance in the saints (His set-apart ones),

19 And [so that you can know and understand] what is the immeasurable and unlimited and surpassing greatness of His power in and for us who believe, as demonstrated in the working of His mighty strength,

20 Which He exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His [own] right hand in the heavenly [places],

21 Far above all rule and authority and power and dominion and every name that is named [above every title that can be conferred], not only in this age and in this world, but also in the age and the world which are to come.

22 And He has put all things under His feet and has appointed Him the universal and supreme Head of the church [a headship exercised throughout the church],

23 Which is His body, the fullness of Him Who fills all in all [for in that body lives the full measure of Him Who makes everything complete, and Who fills everything everywhere with Himself].​

Or how about here:

Eph 3:14 For this reason [seeing the greatness of this plan by which you are built together in Christ], I bow my knees before the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

15 For Whom every family in heaven and on earth is named [that Father from Whom all fatherhood takes its title and derives its name].

16 May He grant you out of the rich treasury of His glory to be strengthened and reinforced with mighty power in the inner man by the [Holy] Spirit [Himself indwelling your innermost being and personality].

17 May Christ through your faith [actually] dwell (settle down, abide, make His permanent home) in your hearts! May you be rooted deep in love and founded securely on love,

18 That you may have the power and be strong to apprehend and grasp with all the saints [God’s devoted people, the experience of that love] what is the breadth and length and height and depth [of it];

19 [That you may really come] to know [practically, [e]through experience for yourselves] the love of Christ, which far surpasses [f]mere knowledge [without experience]; that you may be filled [through all your being] [g]unto all the fullness of God [may have the richest measure of the divine Presence, and [h]become a body wholly filled and flooded with God Himself]!

20 Now to Him Who, by (in consequence of) the [action of His] power that is at work within us, is able to [carry out His purpose and] do superabundantly, far over and above all that we [dare] ask or think [infinitely beyond our highest prayers, desires, thoughts, hopes, or dreams]—

21 To Him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations forever and ever. Amen (so be it).
​

Or here:

Col 19 For this reason we also, from the day we heard of it, have not ceased to pray and make [[g]special] request for you, [asking] that you may be filled with the [h]full (deep and clear) knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom [in comprehensive insight into the ways and purposes of God] and in understanding and discernment of spiritual things—

10 That you may walk (live and conduct yourselves) in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to Him and [j]desiring to please Him in all things, bearing fruit in every good work and steadily growing and increasing in and by the knowledge of God [with fuller, deeper, and clearer insight, [k]acquaintance, and recognition].

11 [We pray] that you may be invigorated and strengthened with all power according to the might of His glory, [to exercise] every kind of endurance and patience (perseverance and forbearance) with joy,

12 Giving thanks to the Father, Who has qualified and made us fit to share the [l]portion which is the inheritance of the saints (God’s holy people) in the Light.

13 [The Father] has delivered and [m]drawn us to Himself out of the control and the dominion of darkness and has transferred us into the kingdom of the Son [n]of His love,

14 In Whom we have our redemption through His blood, [which means] the forgiveness of our sins.​

or here:

Phil 1:9 And this I pray: that your love may abound yet more and more and extend to its fullest development in knowledge and all keen insight [that your love may [d]display itself in greater depth of acquaintance and more comprehensive discernment],

10 So that you may surely learn to sense what is vital, and approve and prize what is excellent and of real value [recognizing the highest and the best, and distinguishing the moral differences], and that you may be untainted and pure and unerring and blameless [so that with hearts sincere and certain and unsullied, you may approach] the day of Christ [not stumbling nor causing others to stumble].

11 May you abound in and be filled with the fruits of righteousness (of right standing with God and right doing) which come through Jesus Christ (the Anointed One), to the honor and praise of God [[e]that His glory may be both manifested and recognized].​

Here is Paul praying four time for three different churches spanning 15 years or so of ministry -

Why doesn't he pray for brokenness?

Hmmm...... they had just as many problems as we do - sexual immorality in the church - having to put out immoral brothers - people dropping dead for lying to the Holy Spirit.

Ever think maybe he got more results because he knew how to pray more effectively? When I start lining my prayers and vision up the way the Apostles did, I started getting results

 

[Yahu]

Let me know what you think...

Why do they have to be mutually exclusive? I say both are just as valid. You can have a greater anointing of the Holy Spirit as well as allowing the HS to lead you in more areas of your life.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Neither.

It's a nice religious thought, but neither is scriptural. When I received the Holy Spirit, I received the Holy Spirit, not just part of him.

You're absolutely right! It is a nice religious thought but not at all accurate. At the point of being born again God creates in us a new spirit that is made to be like God in true righteousness and holiness, Eph. 4:22-24. At this point He gives all of himself to us, then He may also give the baptism of the Holy Spirit which is kinda like an ignition switch. After being born again though, the rest of our lives consists of renewing and releasing. As we renew our minds and believe more and more of God's word, our soul will agree with what's already happend in our born again spirit. When our soul comes into alignment with God's word, our born again spirit releases into our soul life, freedom, power, and revelation.

I believe people don't need to ask God to fill them with more of something that God has already given them 100%. What you're actually doing is ignorantly asking for something that you already have.

 

[Always in His Presence]

You're absolutely right! It is a nice religious thought but not at all accurate. At the point of being born again God creates in us a new spirit that is made to be like God in true righteousness and holiness, Eph. 4:22-24. At this point He gives all of himself to us, then He may also give the baptism of the Holy Spirit which is kinda like an ignition switch. After being born again though, the rest of our lives consists of renewing and releasing. As we renew our minds and believe more and more of God's word, our soul will agree with what's already happend in our born again spirit. When our soul comes into alignment with God's word, our born again spirit releases into our soul life, freedom, power, and revelation.

I believe people don't need to ask God to fill them with more of something that God has already given them 100%. What you're actually doing is ignorantly asking for something that you already have.

AMEN!

 

[nephilimiyr]

No no, don't get me wrong, I know better than to believe he Holy Spirit is like some skiddish dove who will jump ship at the slightest infraction. I just have a hard time accepting any person gave themselves fully to God at conversion or even upon receiving the Spirit baptism. I mean Paul in Phil 3 said he still had not fully known the Lord, which to me reads that he needed to mature more in the faith. I am not saying you are wrong though, I don't know you to say well the fruit doesn't match the tree or however you want to say it. Thanks for your reply BTW!

Hi Bryan,

The main reason why we disagree with you is that we believe it has nothing to do with how much we have given ourselves to God but has everything to do with what God has given us. We believe the Holy Spirit has given 100% of himself to us when we invited him in. He lives inside us day after day and minute by minute. Our job is to tap into him, He's here with us and for us.

 

[FoundInGrace]

Getting to the point of less of me and more of Him, IMHO, would include what I concentrate my time and effort on.

Less of me would include just that - less of me.

Not what I do or say, but what God is doing or saying.

When my focus becomes God drive, then I start to fade away. My sins become less frequent because my focus is on God, not me. I become more pleasing to the Master because, like Jesus I do what I see Father do and say what the Holy Spirit is saying.

Realizing that I have already received the fullness of Him takes all the effort out of trying to get something from Him by my words and o
actions.

Look at how Paul prayed for the church:

Eph 1:16 [For I always pray to] the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, that He may grant you a spirit of wisdom and revelation [of insight into mysteries and secrets] in the [deep and intimate] knowledge of Him,

18 By having the eyes of your heart flooded with light, so that you can know and understand the hope to which He has called you, and how rich is His glorious inheritance in the saints (His set-apart ones),

19 And [so that you can know and understand] what is the immeasurable and unlimited and surpassing greatness of His power in and for us who believe, as demonstrated in the working of His mighty strength,

20 Which He exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His [own] right hand in the heavenly [places],

21 Far above all rule and authority and power and dominion and every name that is named [above every title that can be conferred], not only in this age and in this world, but also in the age and the world which are to come.

22 And He has put all things under His feet and has appointed Him the universal and supreme Head of the church [a headship exercised throughout the church],

23 Which is His body, the fullness of Him Who fills all in all [for in that body lives the full measure of Him Who makes everything complete, and Who fills everything everywhere with Himself].​

Or how about here:

Eph 3:14 For this reason [seeing the greatness of this plan by which you are built together in Christ], I bow my knees before the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

15 For Whom every family in heaven and on earth is named [that Father from Whom all fatherhood takes its title and derives its name].

16 May He grant you out of the rich treasury of His glory to be strengthened and reinforced with mighty power in the inner man by the [Holy] Spirit [Himself indwelling your innermost being and personality].

17 May Christ through your faith [actually] dwell (settle down, abide, make His permanent home) in your hearts! May you be rooted deep in love and founded securely on love,

18 That you may have the power and be strong to apprehend and grasp with all the saints [God’s devoted people, the experience of that love] what is the breadth and length and height and depth [of it];

19 [That you may really come] to know [practically, [e]through experience for yourselves] the love of Christ, which far surpasses [f]mere knowledge [without experience]; that you may be filled [through all your being] [g]unto all the fullness of God [may have the richest measure of the divine Presence, and [h]become a body wholly filled and flooded with God Himself]!

20 Now to Him Who, by (in consequence of) the [action of His] power that is at work within us, is able to [carry out His purpose and] do superabundantly, far over and above all that we [dare] ask or think [infinitely beyond our highest prayers, desires, thoughts, hopes, or dreams]—

21 To Him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations forever and ever. Amen (so be it).
​

Or here:

Col 19 For this reason we also, from the day we heard of it, have not ceased to pray and make [[g]special] request for you, [asking] that you may be filled with the [h]full (deep and clear) knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom [in comprehensive insight into the ways and purposes of God] and in understanding and discernment of spiritual things—

10 That you may walk (live and conduct yourselves) in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to Him and [j]desiring to please Him in all things, bearing fruit in every good work and steadily growing and increasing in and by the knowledge of God [with fuller, deeper, and clearer insight, [k]acquaintance, and recognition].

11 [We pray] that you may be invigorated and strengthened with all power according to the might of His glory, [to exercise] every kind of endurance and patience (perseverance and forbearance) with joy,

12 Giving thanks to the Father, Who has qualified and made us fit to share the [l]portion which is the inheritance of the saints (God’s holy people) in the Light.

13 [The Father] has delivered and [m]drawn us to Himself out of the control and the dominion of darkness and has transferred us into the kingdom of the Son [n]of His love,

14 In Whom we have our redemption through His blood, [which means] the forgiveness of our sins.​

or here:

Phil 1:9 And this I pray: that your love may abound yet more and more and extend to its fullest development in knowledge and all keen insight [that your love may [d]display itself in greater depth of acquaintance and more comprehensive discernment],

10 So that you may surely learn to sense what is vital, and approve and prize what is excellent and of real value [recognizing the highest and the best, and distinguishing the moral differences], and that you may be untainted and pure and unerring and blameless [so that with hearts sincere and certain and unsullied, you may approach] the day of Christ [not stumbling nor causing others to stumble].

11 May you abound in and be filled with the fruits of righteousness (of right standing with God and right doing) which come through Jesus Christ (the Anointed One), to the honor and praise of God [[e]that His glory may be both manifested and recognized].​

Here is Paul praying four time for three different churches spanning 15 years or so of ministry -

Why doesn't he pray for brokenness?

Hmmm...... they had just as many problems as we do - sexual immorality in the church - having to put out immoral brothers - people dropping dead for lying to the Holy Spirit.

Ever think maybe he got more results because he knew how to pray more effectively? When I start lining my prayers and vision up the way the Apostles did, I started getting results

that's really interesting, food for thought, thank you

 

[nephilimiyr]

I would say the first one only because I've never heard of God being the one to submit you to Him or one of the pieces of the Holy Trinity.

Makeing us submit to him does go against free will. I was trying to find a way on how to give the reason for not voting for the 2nd option and you just helped me out, thanks!

 

[The Unforgettable Fire]

I'm just here to watch the fight between simply put and prorob. Don't mind me. Carry on.


Oh ok I'll throw in a response to the OP.

I don't relate to either option in the poll.

If I were to get the opportunity to add an additional option it would look something like...

Learning to stop trying and start trusting, getting the 'me' more out of the way so the Holy Spirit can flow more freely out of my life.

My two cents for whatever it is worth.