Which religion do you think is the "right" religion

[Toms777]

Yea, we've talked about this...and that we shall just wait till the end to see.

You can wait and see...I'll accept what the Bible says

Once again... The dictionary decribes denomination as different congragations...under the same religion...

Ah, so the dictionary is no longer irrelevant as you said previously! We are making some progress.

Unfortunately, we don't know which dictionary you are using. I did provide my reference. Regardless, the CoC still would class as a denomination even under your unsubstantiated definition.

Ex: Baptist... Methodist.. all under christianity.
There are people in our building that are not saved... The human definition of the building would be church... I agree
but they are not in the body of christ... because they have not been written into the book of life.

Then the CoC is not the body of Christ since the CoC omits those who belong to other churches, other denominations, etc.. Those within the CoC who have received Christ as Saviour would be part of the body of Christ, as would be those in other congregations who have receive Jesus as saviour.

I agree that the body of christ is not divided... because the body of christ is teaching the truth.
I agree that divisions "IN" the church are not a bad thing. Yes people will disagree within the church about the meaning of scriptures... that's totally accepted because our job is to come to a common agreement.

Our "job" is to accept what God says and to allow the Holy Spirit guide us into a proper understanding.

yes I agree the body has never disapperared nor has it needed restoration.

More progress!

k... answer my question now.

What question?

 

[Xzist]

You can wait and see...I'll accept what the Bible says

yes, I accept what the bible says also...in its "full context"

Ah, so the dictionary is no longer irrelevant as you said previously! We are making some progress.

Unfortunately, we don't know which dictionary you are using. I did provide my reference. Regardless, the CoC still would class as a denomination even under your unsubstantiated definition.

dictionary.com

Then the CoC is not the body of Christ since the CoC omits those who belong to other churches, other denominations, etc.. Those within the CoC who have received Christ as Saviour would be part of the body of Christ, as would be those in other congregations who have receive Jesus as saviour.

If different people are teaching different things... then all cannot be right

Our "job" is to accept what God says and to allow the Holy Spirit guide us into a proper understanding.

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

This is our job also... to search the scriptues to find the truth.

What question?

Wow, I've posted this at least 3 times... I'll post it in red this time

If people are teaching and learning different things... if there are "denominations" or differences in what the bible teaches... do we not think that people will be held accountable for false teachings?
If one chuch is teaching baptism essential for salvation, and another is teaching baptism not essential... one is is teaching tongues, another teaching tongues has ceased... are we all going to be saved, although some are teaching lies?

 

[muffler dragon]

yes, I accept what the bible says also...in its "full context"

Sorry, but you've already been show to be lacking on the topic of baptism with regard to context. As I have shown you the documentation on what baptism meant to a Torah-observant Jew. This is not in-line with what you presented, and therefore, would prove your above statement to be incorrect.

Regards,

m.d.

 

[Xzist]

Sorry, but you've already been show to be lacking on the topic of baptism with regard to context. As I have shown you the documentation on what baptism meant to a Torah-observant Jew. This is not in-line with what you presented, and therefore, would prove your above statement to be incorrect.

Regards,

m.d.

Well... I'm a "bible observing" Christian and your non biblical documentation doesn't interest me... nor does it prove that baptism is not essential for salvation - thanks!

Happy b-day!

 

[muffler dragon]

Well... I'm a "bible observing" Christian and your non biblical documentation doesn't interest me... nor does it prove that baptism is not essential for salvation - thanks!

Happy b-day!

Yet, Judaic context means nothing to you. Apparently the conflict hasn't set in yet.

Anyways...

Thank you for the birthday wishes.

 

[Ave Maria]

I believe that Christianity is the right religion because of what the Bible says here:

(NIV) John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

I don't believe that any one denomination is the one true denomination. I like how CF uses the Nicene Creed to judge who is orthodox (as opposed to heterodox) Christians. I believe that anyone who follows the Nicene Creed is a "true" Christian.

 

[Toms777]

yes, I accept what the bible says also...in its "full context"

Good! That was difficult in the previous baptism discussion.

dictionary.com

That is not an answer - dictionary.com covers many different dictionaries.

If different people are teaching different things... then all cannot be right

Your point is???

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Yep....Your point is???

This is our job also... to search the scriptues to find the truth.

The truth is in God's word and we have been promised the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth. It is not up to us to decide upon what truth is.

Wow, I've posted this at least 3 times... I'll post it in red this time

I only saw it once before and it appeared rhetorical....and it is 2 questions not one!

If people are teaching and learning different things... if there are "denominations" or differences in what the bible teaches... do we not think that people will be held accountable for false teachings?

You have made unsubstantiated assumptions. these are:

1) that if there are denominations, then there are differences in what the Bible teaches.
2) that if there are differences, that these differences ae in areas requiring accountability.

Let's look at the first one. There are numerous reasons for denominations (and BTW, I do not belong to any denomination and I do not defend denominationalism, Iam merely pointing out facts fairly). Some of the reasons are:

- Geographic location
- Mission and calling
- Language
- Historical roots
- Differences in emphasis of belief
- Differences in doctrine.

You have assumed only the last, whereas the vast majority fall into one of the other categories which do not in any way impact doctrine. (BTW, The CoC falls into the last because of the doctrines around salvation which actually causes differences in the gospel of salvation from that held by other churches. So, your assumption is in error.

The second is also in error because not all differences require accountability. For instance, what if I believe that Saul went to hell after deasth and someone else believes that he went to heaven. Does that differences require accountabuility on the part of one or both? No, because it is not something that is essential. Most denominations agree on essentials, so that is a non-issue. For those who alter essentails or key doctrines, yes indeed there will be accountability, but that is also of secondary importance.

I'll bet you are waiting to jump on that one....but it is of secondary importance. Nothing could possibly be of greater importance in a person's life than if they are saved and no denomination be it CoC, Baptist, Lutheran, RCC or Methodis can be saved or can guarantee salvation. Now, some denominations are little more than cults or cultic and teach that one can only be saved through their organization and possibly only in certain ways, saying certain wordas, or by certain people, and believing certain esoteric doctrines that only they teach. Those denominations are outside orthodox Christianity, and they deserve to be exposed publicly for those false teaching, which is a large part of my ministry.

What we were discussion was Christian denominations, so that catgeory falls off and the remainder all agree on essentials. So your point in a moot point.

If one chuch is teaching baptism essential for salvation, and another is teaching baptism not essential... one is is teaching tongues, another teaching tongues has ceased... are we all going to be saved, although some are teaching lies?

No churches are going to be saved. You may thing taht to be a sarcastic remark, but it is not intended that way. It is a fact. You are mixing up two things. Second, you are smeared tyhe line with respect to essentials and non-essentials also, so I could not answer the question as written, since it cannot have an answer which is unambiguous because the question itself is ambiguous.

Now, as for those who do believe false teachings on matters of essence, the gospel, salvation, who God is, etc., will they be saved? probably not, but as for those indidviduals, that is for God to determine, not me since I cannot know the person's heart.

 

[muffler dragon]

I believe that Christianity is the right religion because of what the Bible says here:

(NIV) John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

I don't believe that any one denomination is the one true denomination. I like how CF uses the Nicene Creed to judge who is orthodox (as opposed to heterodox) Christians. I believe that anyone who follows the Nicene Creed is a "true" Christian.

The way/truth/life is actually a statement about 2 possible things:

1) The Torah. Each of the words used is synonymous with the Torah.
2) Each is the name of a portion of the Temple (except the Holy of Holies).

With this statement, Y'shua was affirming the Torah. Granted, this only comes forth from a Jewish perspective, but I thought I would share it nonetheless.

m.d.

 

[Xzist]

Good! That was difficult in the previous baptism discussion.


That is not an answer - dictionary.com covers many different dictionaries.


Your point is???


Yep....Your point is???


The truth is in God's word and we have been promised the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth. It is not up to us to decide upon what truth is.


I only saw it once before and it appeared rhetorical....and it is 2 questions not one!



You have made unsubstantiated assumptions. these are:

1) that if there are denominations, then there are differences in what the Bible teaches.
2) that if there are differences, that these differences ae in areas requiring accountability.

Let's look at the first one. There are numerous reasons for denominations (and BTW, I do not belong to any denomination and I do not defend denominationalism, Iam merely pointing out facts fairly). Some of the reasons are:

- Geographic location
- Mission and calling
- Language
- Historical roots
- Differences in emphasis of belief
- Differences in doctrine.

You have assumed only the last, whereas the vast majority fall into one of the other categories which do not in any way impact doctrine. (BTW, The CoC falls into the last because of the doctrines around salvation which actually causes differences in the gospel of salvation from that held by other churches. So, your assumption is in error.

The second is also in error because not all differences require accountability. For instance, what if I believe that Saul went to hell after deasth and someone else believes that he went to heaven. Does that differences require accountabuility on the part of one or both? No, because it is not something that is essential. Most denominations agree on essentials, so that is a non-issue. For those who alter essentails or key doctrines, yes indeed there will be accountability, but that is also of secondary importance.

I'll bet you are waiting to jump on that one....but it is of secondary importance. Nothing could possibly be of greater importance in a person's life than if they are saved and no denomination be it CoC, Baptist, Lutheran, RCC or Methodis can be saved or can guarantee salvation. Now, some denominations are little more than cults or cultic and teach that one can only be saved through their organization and possibly only in certain ways, saying certain wordas, or by certain people, and believing certain esoteric doctrines that only they teach. Those denominations are outside orthodox Christianity, and they deserve to be exposed publicly for those false teaching, which is a large part of my ministry.

What we were discussion was Christian denominations, so that catgeory falls off and the remainder all agree on essentials. So your point in a moot point.



No churches are going to be saved. You may thing taht to be a sarcastic remark, but it is not intended that way. It is a fact. You are mixing up two things. Second, you are smeared tyhe line with respect to essentials and non-essentials also, so I could not answer the question as written, since it cannot have an answer which is unambiguous because the question itself is ambiguous.

Now, as for those who do believe false teachings on matters of essence, the gospel, salvation, who God is, etc., will they be saved? probably not, but as for those indidviduals, that is for God to determine, not me since I cannot know the person's heart.

Hmmm.. a false teaching is a false teaching... who are you to say what is essential and what is not?
if it's written in the bible one way... and taught another... it is a false teaching

I think you misunderstand me when I say use "church"... because you are still making reference to my use of church being a group of certain individuals that have plotted this teaching. The COC is the early church.

but hey... I def. don't agree with you... but I'd like to end this debate, because it would never end....

-plant the seed and let God add as should be saved.

byeeee now

 

[Telrunya]

Colossians 2:15-17 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.


Paul is saying that the particular day is not important but it is the fact that you set aside a day for the Sabbath. How many times do we read in the bible to beware of the traditions of man being a stumbling block? How many times do we read in the bible that it is not the words you do or the acts but what is in your heart that matters. Do you have a day set aside for the Lord? Do you welcome him into your heart and ask him to forgive you your sins?

 

[Toms777]

Hmmm.. a false teaching is a false teaching... who are you to say what is essential and what is not?

So are you saying that the colour of Jesus beard would be as important as the truth of the gospel? Are you saying that whether or not we use the English translation of John's name or the original Hebrew is as important as who the true God is?

I think you misunderstand me when I say use "church"... because you are still making reference to my use of church being a group of certain individuals that have plotted this teaching. The COC is the early church.

No sorry, the history of the CoC is much more recent. There were no denominations, no organization, no groups which went under the umbrella of a name such a Christ of Christ, Baptist or any other name. This is the same fallacy as the RCC amkes about being the original church. The fact is that Jesus did not create a group of men to meet together, but rather brought men into a saving knowledge of Him. That is the point.

Like I said, even the original Greek word translated as church refers to individuals, not to a grouping, no matter how you wish to call it or redefine the words.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Well... I'm a "bible observing" Christian and your non biblical documentation doesn't interest me... nor does it prove that baptism is not essential for salvation - thanks!

My question to you would be: does your position of "Bible observing" and your lack of interest in non-Biblical documentation mean you think that there is not truth outside the pages of the Bible?

 

[Xzist]

My question to you would be: does your position of "Bible observing" and your lack of interest in non-Biblical documentation mean you think that there is not truth outside the pages of the Bible?

Yes, there is truth outside of the bible... but I myself have seen things like "his"tory written to glorify one's theory.... those theroies and writings not always true... and it has a huuuuuge effect. I read non biblical text... but of course you always have to use common sense to distinguish between truth, and lies. Knowledge is key.

 

[Josh187]

As many have said before, there is no "right religion." All that matters to God is that you come to repentance through Jesus Christ, and follow what his word says, not what any Epi-Mormo-Baptizin'-Pentesosters say.

The latter part was not to bash any of these particular denominations, its just that I love word play .

Later
Josh,

 

[Toms777]

As many have said before, there is no "right religion." All that matters to God is that you come to repentance through Jesus Christ, and follow what his word says, not what any Epi-Mormo-Baptizin'-Pentesosters say.

This seems contrradictory. Are you saying that Muslims or Hindus can be saved in their own religion is they "..come to repentance through Jesus Christ, and follow what his word says", and how could they stay in their own religion is they follow what the Bible says?

 

[Stan the Man]

This is kinda alog the lines of Tom's post

They're so many different religions to choose from out there... alot of people have a hard time deciding which one is which... i personally use to be baptist, about a year and a half ago i started goin to a church of christ with my girlfriend... after about 5 or so months of going and studying i found that i truley believe that i found the right church now... but of course thats what everyone says... i want to go to heaven when i die but i really wanna know, which church is the "true" church?

As many have said before, there is no "right religion."

Okay, why are people confusing religion with denomination? The only people I know who say there is no "right religion" are post-modernists. And why the suggestion from the thread starter that there is one denomination that can claim to be right and claim that all the others are wrong?

Romans 12:5

"So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. "

So as long as you are in Christ, you cannot claim to be better in any regard than another:

Romans 12:3

"For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."

Romans 12:20

"Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits. "

If there is a particular aspect of a denomination that is teaching something which contradicts the Gospel of Jesus Christ, then we should discipline them with love, but be careful that we do not fall victim to the same contradictions.

But in response to the question "which religion do you think is the right religion" I would say, the religion that is taught to be right in the bible: feeding the hungry and caring for the poor.

If someone asks me "Are you religious?", I say "No, but I am a Christian". As someone else has already said in this thread, Christianity is not a religion... it's a relationship.

 

[Xzist]

Romans 12:5

"So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. "

So as long as you are in Christ, you cannot claim to be better in any regard than another:

How is a person "in Christ"... like what does a person have to do to be in Christ?
You have to remember that soooo many people have different beliefs on how to be "in Christ".

 

[Stan the Man]

There are 4 other threads going on elsewhere about baptism and its part in salvation. They seem to all end up having personal attacks, flaming of other denominations, and all kinds of divisions come to the fore at some stage in the thread, so I'm not going to broach the issue here.

If you have "washed your robes in the blood of the Lamb" then you are in Christ. Exactly how you do this, and so get "in Christ" is an issue that seems to cause such fierce confrontation between Christians that I'd like to nip it in the bud here and ask that we save it for another thread if we wish to discuss it.

 

[Xzist]

There are 4 other threads going on elsewhere about baptism and its part in salvation. They seem to all end up having personal attacks, flaming of other denominations, and all kinds of divisions come to the fore at some stage in the thread, so I'm not going to broach the issue here.

If you have "washed your robes in the blood of the Lamb" then you are in Christ. Exactly how you do this, and so get "in Christ" is an issue that seems to cause such fierce confrontation between Christians that I'd like to nip it in the bud here and ask that we save it for another thread if we wish to discuss it.

Ok... I agree. We don't have to discuss it... I was asking the question so that I could pose the same question to you that I gave to Tom.

My question was...
If soooo many people are teaching salvation through different means....wouldn't some of those teachings be false? and if so, will people be held accountable for false teaching?

 

[Toms777]

Ok... I agree. We don't have to discuss it... I was asking the question so that I could pose the same question to you that I gave to Tom.

My question was...
If soooo many people are teaching salvation through different means....wouldn't some of those teachings be false? and if so, will people be held accountable for false teaching?

Actually, your question to me was much broader than salvation. That was part of the problem - the question was not clearly defined and you were mixing essentials and non-essentials.