Which OT laws should I obey?

[Soyeong]

Do you keep all the laws of Moses?

Not even Jesus kept the laws in regard to having a period or to giving birth.

 

[tonychanyt]

Not even Jesus kept the laws in regard to having a period or to giving birth.

How do you operationally decide which laws to obey?

 

[Studyman]

Paul gave us some guidelines in Colossians 2:

Col. 2: 20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ "from the rudiments of the world", why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; 22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines "of men"?

You are making a fundamental error here, according to the doctrines and traditions of this world's religions. First, You are implying that Paul is Judging God's Commandments and Judgments as "Rudiments of this world". Paul isn't doing that. Even a child would understand, after reading the Words of the Jesus of the Bible, that the mainstream religion of that time, the religious sect of the Pharisees, were teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of men, not the commandments of God. They had, as the Jesus of the Bible teaches, "Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition". These manmade commandments included washing in a certain way before eating. Not serving milk and meat at the same table.

Jesus tells us this, if men would just believe Him.

Mark. 7: 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

Paul is saying the same exact thing, "Touch not; taste not; handle not", after the commandments and doctrines "OF MEN".

The deceiver would have us believe that God's Commandments "Are Rudiments of this world" or that we should demean Him and reduce HIS Words to that of Evil men, like the Pharisees. This world's religions always do this, but Paul never does this. He teaches "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good".

Paul teaches that the men who are promoting these doctrines and commandments of men are those who "profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate". He warns of men who "Transform themselves" into Apostles of Christ, but are really deceivers.

So I hope you might consider the error on your part here. Your thread is, Which "OT" laws should men honor God by obeying.

Paul "Specifically" identifies for you in Colossians 2 that these "Ordinances" are not "Commandments of God", but Rudiments of this world and Commandments of MEN.

I know we both have been taught from our youth, by "Many" religious sects and businesses, all of whom "come in Christ's Name" and call Jesus Lord, Lord, that Paul is speaking of God's Commandments here. But if you read it for yourself, it is clear he is not. I'm hoping you might reconsider your adopted religious philosophy regarding Col. 2 here, and simply accept for yourself that what is written, is God's Truth.

Col. 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition "of men", after the rudiments "of the world", and not after Christ.

It is simply undeniable Biblical Truth that Jesus obeyed His Father's Commandments, not the religious doctrines and traditions of the world God placed Him in. Paul is clearly teaching here in Col. 2, that we abide by the same Philosophy. "Let no man judge thee"!!!

I will address the rest of your OP in another post.

This is a great topic, and one that should be discussed, in my view.

 

[Studyman]

Further, the indwelling Spirit will show us, Hebrews 10:

"my laws" refers to the Paraclete or Holy Spirit of God. The putting is fulfilled when the Spirit/Paraclete dwells in my conscience.

Of Course, God said "MY Laws", because Israel had rejected God's Laws and were, according to the Jesus "of the Bible" and Isaiah, "Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of men".

Here what is actually written?

Jer. 23: 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. 17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

So what does God Promise?

Jer. 31: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

And what do we have now Tony? We all have the Oracles of God in our own homes, in our own minds. I can, with the turning of a page, identify if a tradition of law is God's Law, or a tradition of man. I am in Moses Seat now, not the Pharisees. (Matt. 23:1-3)

What does God say about mans conscience? Jer. 17: 9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? What does the Jesus "of the bible" say about man's conscience?

John 3: 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

I too, have been taught by those same "MANY" who call Jesus Lord, Lord since my youth. I hope you might consider Jesus' and the Prophets, and Paul's Warnings, that they were written for you too, not written to exclude you.

 

[Studyman]

Rom 7:

That was before. Now comes the after:

Rom. 7: 5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

The wage of sin is death. This is called "The Law of Sin". Paul was held by this Law when he was dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past he "walked according to the course of this world, (Not God) according to the prince of the power of the air, (Satan) the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

6 But now (After Repentance) we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should (Be alive to) serve in newness of spirit, ( the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness).and not in the oldness of the letter. ( Thou shall surely be put to death)

The deceiver would have us believe we have been freed from God's Law defining Sin. But those who know and believe what is actually written, they understand this is another insidious falsehood.

Rom. 6: 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye "yield yourselves" servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death,

Read this Tony. This is years after Jesus ascended unto His Father and Paul is still teaching the Body of Christ that they still must choose who to "Yield themselves" a servant to obey and also that Sin still brings Death. So they have been "Freed from the Law" that held them in death so they can be free to "Yield themselves" servants to obey again. And if they continue to be the "Children of Disobedience", this choice still brings death.

or of obedience unto righteousness?

Or they can "Yield themselves" a servant to obey God, which leads to Righteousness, according to Paul.

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, (When they were "Children of Disobedience) but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, "ye became" the servants of (God's) righteousness.

Or as Paul calls it is Eph. 4: 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

 

[tonychanyt]

The deceiver would have us believe we have been freed from God's Law defining Sin. But those who know and believe what is actually written, they understand this is another insidious falsehood.

Are you circumcised?

 

[Studyman]

Are you circumcised?

I have been here many times. A man who "Professes to know God" furthers a popular false doctrine, like God's Laws are "Rudiments of this world, and Traditions of man. When I point this false doctrine out to them, not using my words, but the Holy scriptures themselves, the preacher has an opportunity to actually honestly discuss what is written, which might make him vulnerable to correction, in the same way the mainstream preachers of Jesus time, the Pharisees, would become vulnerable if they were to answer HIS questions about their religious philosophy or engage in honest discourse regarding the Scriptures HE quoted.

But that seldom happens, as the preacher who "comes in Christ's name" will almost always work to preserve his doctrine in spite of what is actually written and shield himself from possible "pride hurting" correction by changing the subject or working to direct the discussion away from his own religious philosophy. Or simply refusing to engage in honest discourse at all.

I am learning how to deal with such people and have come to understand that if there was any interest in honest discourse regarding the religious philosophy they are promoting, it would have already happened. And that I can only make the point and offer it up for discussion. I can't make someone engage in honest from the heart discussions.

So It's enough for me that I have made the case for the scriptures, and God's Word doesn't return void. Someone will read the post and consider. It edifies no one to partake is endless attempts to distract from the point at hand.

As for my private parts, Circumcision has always been a private matter between God and man. How would I know if a man is circumcised? Did God command this man to go around flashing his manhood to others, to prove his obedience? I think not. A faithful man, according to Moses, whose foreskin of the heart is circumcised, is known by his obedient "works", as was Jesus.

Nevertheless, I thank you for the platform to bring the LIGHT to shine on Col. 2, so as to expose an age-old deception promoted by "MANY" who come in Christ's Name for centuries.

Thanks Again.

 

[tonychanyt]

As for my private parts, Circumcision has always been a private matter between God and man. How would I know if a man is circumcised? Did God command this man to go around flashing his manhood to others, to prove his obedience? I think not. A faithful man, according to Moses, whose foreskin of the heart is circumcised, is known by his obedient "works", as was Jesus.

We are not communicating.

Please focus on my question: Are you circumcised physically?

This is the 2nd time I have asked.

If you don't want to answer it straightforwardly, just say so. Do you understand?

 

[Unqualified]

The circumcision is Israel. It is beneficial to be Israel in every way. The have the law and the service of God and are Gods people. Through them the gospel came.

 

[Studyman]

We are not communicating.

Please focus on my question: Are you circumcised physically?

This is the 2nd time I have asked.

If you don't want to answer it straightforwardly, just say so. Do you understand?

I understand how important it is for modern preachers to run the show, be in charge, etc. I've been pushed around by you guys since my youth. But you have no power. So you deal with your false preaching about Col. 2 first, afterward, I am happy to reveal the status of my penis, since you seem obsessed by it.

Paul gave us some guidelines in Colossians 2:

Col. 2: 20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ "from the rudiments of the world", why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; 22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines "of men"?

You are making a fundamental error here, according to the doctrines and traditions of this world's religions. First, You are implying that Paul is Judging God's Commandments and Judgments as "Rudiments of this world". Paul isn't doing that. Even a child would understand, after reading the Words of the Jesus of the Bible, that the mainstream religion of that time, the religious sect of the Pharisees, were teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of men, not the commandments of God. They had, as the Jesus of the Bible teaches, "Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition". These manmade commandments included washing in a certain way before eating. Not serving milk and meat at the same table.

Jesus tells us this, if men would just believe Him.

Mark. 7: 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

Paul is saying the same exact thing, "Touch not; taste not; handle not", after the commandments and doctrines "OF MEN".

The deceiver would have us believe that God's Commandments "Are Rudiments of this world" or that we should demean Him and reduce HIS Words to that of Evil men, like the Pharisees. This world's religions always do this, but Paul never does this. He teaches "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good".

Paul teaches that the men who are promoting these doctrines and commandments of men are those who "profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate". He warns of men who "Transform themselves" into Apostles of Christ, but are really deceivers.

So I hope you might consider the error on your part here. Your thread is, Which "OT" laws should men honor God by obeying.

Paul "Specifically" identifies for you in Colossians 2 that these "Ordinances" are not "Commandments of God", but Rudiments of this world and Commandments of MEN.

I know we both have been taught from our youth, by "Many" religious sects and businesses, all of whom "come in Christ's Name" and call Jesus Lord, Lord, that Paul is speaking of God's Commandments here. But if you read it for yourself, it is clear he is not. I'm hoping you might reconsider your adopted religious philosophy regarding Col. 2 here, and simply accept for yourself that what is written, is God's Truth.

Col. 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition "of men", after the rudiments "of the world", and not after Christ.

It is simply undeniable Biblical Truth that Jesus obeyed His Father's Commandments, not the religious doctrines and traditions of the world God placed Him in. Paul is clearly teaching here in Col. 2, that we abide by the same Philosophy. "Let no man judge thee"!!!

I will address the rest of your OP in another post.

This is a great topic, and one that should be discussed, in my view.

 

[Studyman]

The circumcision is Israel. It is beneficial to be Israel in every way. The have the law and the service of God and are Gods people. Through them the gospel came.

As the Jesus of the Bible teaches .

John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

True Post, unqualified.

 

[tonychanyt]

The circumcision is Israel. It is beneficial to be Israel in every way.

E.g. ...

 

[Unqualified]

E.g. ...

I gave examples that transcend the flesh…

 

[tonychanyt]

I understand how important it is for modern preachers to run the show, be in charge, etc.

We are still not communicating.

Please focus on my question if you are able: Are you circumcised physically?

It is a simple question. This is the 3rd and the last time I have asked.

If you don't want to answer it straightforwardly, just say so. Do you finally understand this simple question and possible response?

 

[tonychanyt]

I gave examples that transcend the flesh…

I am having trouble understanding you. How is that beneficial to be Israel in every way as you have claimed? Please explain your reasoning logically step by step.

 

[Soyeong]

How do you operationally decide which laws to obey?

Most of the laws are fairly straightforward for which situations they apply. For example, an number of laws say "when you enter the land..." that applies when someone is in the land.

 

[Unqualified]

It is scripture for one thing. Rom 9:4 for instance. God has not forsaken His people for their unbelief. But has a remnant. At a certain time all Israel will be saved.

they have benefited by their relationship to God. They are smart , patient, willing to sacrifice. They have a lot of godly attributes as a people. Good with money, strong, in control, sober, self righteous, some righteousness by the law still. Prayerful, trusting, loving kind, love God. They have preserved their pure bloodlines. They have been dispersed and regathered according to Gods will. They are warriors like God and they seem to have Gods blessing of prosperity and victory for now. They obey international law. They have been tried by world court and passed the test. Etc.

 

[Soyeong]

self righteous, some righteousness by the law still.

If God's law were His instructions for how to become self-righteous and God does not want us to become self-righteous, then it would follow that God therefore does not want to be obeyed, which is absurd considering that all throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law, therefore it is not God's instructions for how to become self-righteous, rather it is God's instructions for how to testify about God's goodness. Likewise, God's law is not His instructions for how to establish our own goodness, but rather they are His instructions for how to testify about His goodness, which is why our good works bring glory to Him (Matthew 5:16).

The is a difference between the way to become righteous and what we are becoming when we become righteous. The only way to become righteous is through faith that we ought to be doers of righteous works and become righteous through faith means that we are becoming doers of righteous works through faith.

 

[Unqualified]

We are not communicating, that’s not what I was answering. I was answering how it is beneficial to be Israel in every way…

 

[Bob S]

Morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to obey God, so all of God's laws are inherently moral laws.

All of the laws that God ever gave to the Israelites were not given to all mankind. That is a fact. How could our perfect God give anyone an immoral law? Some of the perfect laws given to Israel were never given to the remainder of mankind.

If morality were just in regard to our relationship with man and not our relationship with God, the it would not be immoral to commit idolatry. Laws were given to equip Israel to be a light and a blessing to the nations by turning them from their wickedness and teaching the nations to obey them in accordance with the promise and with spreading the Gospel. Some laws deal with religious or solemn ceremonies consisting of a series of actions performed according to a prescribed order. Those Laws are called Ritual Laws.

You mean like only Israel's weekly Sabbath, new moon celebrations and feast days?