Which one is right?

shturt678 · Jun 25, 2013

Epecho said:
Dear friend, may I respectfully tell you that the Bible says "God is not the author of confusion".

- See more at: Why Are There So Many Churches? | WhyAreThereSoManyChurches.com

After years and years of secular education as a semi-atheist, ie, called upon God after a few near death experiences for some reason, I went through not only depression but confusion, exponentially. Since that time, after my "instant of faith," I have learned to measure Biblical Truth on a sliding linear scale, the more confusing another's inference is, the more valid it most likely is.

Albion · Jun 25, 2013

The thread's apparently gone cold, but the question of the OP is still relevant if anyone wants to discuss it:

There seem to be so many.. Which one is right? I wasn't raised in a certain one.. so I am looking at all of these from a complete outsider's perspective.

I know that I need to study Christian history and find these answers myself.. but just wondering if anybody would be able to share general information or how they were able to determine which denomination they were.

shturt678 · Jun 25, 2013

Albion said:
The thread's apparently gone cold, but the question of the OP is still relevant if anyone wants to discuss it:

.... I've noticed that most essentials of the faith type threads can get cold quick? ? ? Have the highest respect for you and your words my ol' sparring friend.

samcarternx · Jun 25, 2013

Albion said:
The thread's apparently gone cold, but the question of the OP is still relevant if anyone wants to discuss it:

hahahah the one left standing at the end.

shturt678 · Jun 25, 2013

samcarternx said:
hahahah the one left standing at the end.

Although denominations/non-denominations have some control to extreme, we still have to remember those those that are hurting and God is calling don't know us; however they know that little Church up on that little hill, and God is in there although the antichristian power and propaganda is very well there also, ie, the Lord Christ Jesus is still the BOSS in absolutely control absolutely. The little Baptist Church was there for me; however I went over to the Lutheran camp as I asked too many questions which led to my change. I'm not happy with the modern Lutheran Churches of today but still active, keeping my shut in there and yakking away here. Good Christians on this forum and a great forum.

MarkRohfrietsch · Jun 25, 2013

shturt678 said:
Although denominations/non-denominations have some control to extreme, we still have to remember those those that are hurting and God is calling don't know us; however they know that little Church up on that little hill, and God is in there although the antichristian power and propaganda is very well there also, ie, the Lord Christ Jesus is still the BOSS in absolutely control absolutely. The little Baptist Church was there for me; however I went over to the Lutheran camp as I asked too many questions which led to my change. I'm not happy with the modern Lutheran Churches of today but still active, keeping my shut in there and yakking away here. Good Christians on this forum and a great forum.

I think that you would be happy in my Parish; even the children are hard nosed old farts

.

revhewett · Jun 25, 2013

christianmom2389 said:
I have been a Christian for a couple years now.. and I am still confused by all of the denominations.

There seem to be so many.. Which one is right? I wasn't raised in a certain one.. so I am looking at all of these from a complete outsider's perspective.

I know that I need to study Christian history and find these answers myself.. but just wondering if anybody would be able to share general information or how they were able to determine which denomination they were.

I believe the answer here is "yes"

shturt678 · Jun 25, 2013

MarkRohfrietsch said:
I think that you would be happy in my Parish; even the children are hard nosed old farts.

....and your invitation as my parents were full fledged alcoholics and my teachers and professors were my parents, ie, my point is I've never grown up and taken responsibility, whatever that means, at my ol' old age and probably will not before I pass on hence would fit right in. Thank you and Sam and others.

Jon S · Jul 8, 2013

christianmom2389 said:
I have been a Christian for a couple years now.. and I am still confused by all of the denominations.

There seem to be so many.. Which one is right? I wasn't raised in a certain one.. so I am looking at all of these from a complete outsider's perspective.

I know that I need to study Christian history and find these answers myself.. but just wondering if anybody would be able to share general information or how they were able to determine which denomination they were.

yes study history! I did, thousands of others have, and when you do you see that all roads lead to Rome! I have been so blessed since heading on this journey stepping out in faith.

New Testament Canon confirmed- Catholic Council of Carthage
Ignatius of Antioch- Speaks about the Eucharist
Ireneaus and Justin Maryr- Confirm belief in the Eucharist and Authority of Bishops.

It goes on and on.

I will pray for your journey, and if you do consider Catholicsim, check out the Catholic Answers Forum

branchofthevine · Jul 8, 2013

wouldn't the most accurate answer be: Because God purposed it?
or God in His sovereignty allowed it to happen for the ultimate purpose of the culmination of His Kingdom and the revealing of Jesus in splendor and glory at His return?

Jon S · Jul 8, 2013

branchofthevine said:
wouldn't the most accurate answer be: Because God purposed it?
or God in His sovereignty allowed it to happen for the ultimate purpose of the culmination of His Kingdom and the revealing of Jesus in splendor and glory at His return?

I am not sure how you reconcile that with Jesus' prayer in John 17:

20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."

Denominations are not Gods will, but the evil one's. satan sows division for the destruction of souls.

shturt678 · Jul 8, 2013

branchofthevine said:
wouldn't the most accurate answer be: Because God purposed it?
or God in His sovereignty allowed it to happen for the ultimate purpose of the culmination of His Kingdom and the revealing of Jesus in splendor and glory at His return?

Culmination of the Kingdom of the antichrist that Jesus will destroy upon His one Return, correct? Most are in the Kingdom of God 'outwardly' thinking they are in 'inwardly' to keep the church economics going, ie, going to be some forever type surprises when one awakes in the wrong place even before Christ's one Return.

branchofthevine · Jul 8, 2013

Jon S said:
I am not sure how you reconcile that with Jesus' prayer in John 17:

20 My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one 23 I in them and you in meso that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."

Denominations are not Gods will, but the evil one's. satan sows division for the destruction of souls.

satans and his demons do I suppose, but let's ignore them for the time being because even they are under God's sovereignty.

See, here's the thing. I don't see denominations as divisive. Maybe because I didn't grow up with that mindset, but to me, it doesn't matter if someone is a Catholic or an Anglican, or a Baptist, or a Charismatic Pentecostal.
I can sum it up in the words a homeless man once told me: under all the appearances, we are just Brothers in Christ.
The outward show of that in terms of liturgy, in terms of service and praise, we can be different. In terms of doctrine we may be different, though in dogma we are similar. Underneath all that is our connectedness to Christ and one another through Him.

Should we say that all cultures have to be the same in order for humanity to be "one"? certainly not. We should not expect the African Churches to look the same as NA Churches, or to be the same as the Chinese or the Indian, or the Kurds.

Denominations and differences do not necessarily mean division and separation. In a sense we are the ones dividing, not denominations.

branchofthevine · Jul 8, 2013

shturt678 said:
Culmination of the Kingdom of the antichrist that Jesus will destroy upon His one Return, correct? Most are in the Kingdom of God 'outwardly' thinking they are in 'inwardly' to keep the church economics going, ie, going to be some forever type surprises when one awakes in the wrong place even before Christ's one Return.

I'm not sure I follow. I'm talking about the Kingdom of God as Jesus talks about in the Gospels which is experienced here on earth through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which is come to its culmination when Jesus returns to judge the living and the dead, and reign forever with His saints.

shturt678 · Jul 8, 2013

branchofthevine said:
I'm not sure I follow. I'm talking about the Kingdom of God as Jesus talks about in the Gospels which is experienced here on earth through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which is come to its culmination when Jesus returns to judge the living and the dead, and reign forever with His saints.

The same Kingdom of God only from the interpretation of Matt.20:1-16; 22:1-14 from the older Lutheran works tillllll aboooutt 1918, where one is in the Kingdom only "outwardly" where God only knows if in "inwardly" upon one's passing. Don't be that concerned as considered not only out-dated by modern Lutherans but almost to the point of being fallacious. btw the Holy Spirit does indwell those in the Kingdom "outwardly." Thank for giving me a chance to clarify although you will still have to agree to disagree.

branchofthevine · Jul 8, 2013

shturt678 said:
The same Kingdom of God only from the interpretation of Matt.20:1-16; 22:1-14 from the older Lutheran works tillllll aboooutt 1918, where one is in the Kingdom only "outwardly" where God only knows if in "inwardly" upon one's passing. Don't be that concerned as considered not only out-dated by modern Lutherans but almost to the point of being fallacious. btw the Holy Spirit does indwell those in the Kingdom "outwardly." Thank for giving me a chance to clarify although you will still have to agree to disagree.

can I ask a question. Do you equate Kingdom (outward only) with going to church, participating in church, claiming to be a Christian -like those sorts of things?

I believe that the Kingdom of God refers to everything under the Lordship of God, anything in obedience to His purpose -so those who are saved and forgiven, and are indwelled by the Holy Spirit. I'm not familiar with the old Lutheran beliefs, my understanding has come from my classes with Dr. Barry Smith
link:Jesus as Teacher in the Synoptic Gospels
and an article in `the dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels" entitled "Kingdom of God/heaven"

I am just trying to understand, not to make an argument

shturt678 · Jul 8, 2013

branchofthevine said:
can I ask a question. Do you equate Kingdom (outward only) with going to church, participating in church, claiming to be a Christian -like those sorts of things?

I believe that the Kingdom of God refers to everything under the Lordship of God, anything in obedience to His purpose -so those who are saved and forgiven, and are indwelled by the Holy Spirit. I'm not familiar with the old Lutheran beliefs, my understanding has come from my classes with Dr. Barry Smith
link:Jesus as Teacher in the Synoptic Gospels
and an article in `the dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels" entitled "Kingdom of God/heaven"

I am just trying to understand, not to make an argument

In the Churches and out 24/7 absolute Jesus' nut and the Cross 25/8 kind of thing. btw I did my serious learning by arguments when I thought I was 'correct' and humbly found out 'in error,' ie, nothing to do with you as only a side point. I hold a different view of the Kingdom even from the Lexicons, Wikipedia, and etc. so by majority standards, I in error again? Now the negative side: I view the uncomfortable Jn.8:51, with the one valid interpretation whatever that may mean in today's time, that deals with those are saved (instant of faith), more so with those that are "being saved" (in the Kingdom "outwardly") so they can be "shall be saved" (in the Kingdom "inwardly") upon one's passing. Just remove Jn.8:51 out of the equation then I too just needs to go to Church for the hour and a half on Sunday, and really be religious showing up for a mid-week Bible study. No sarcasm intended. I met Mr. Smith, not personally of course, when I was working on the NWO and bumped into his works. I'm the antithesis of any scholar of today and have a total different view of his view of "born again" and interpretation of Revelation, ie, he may very well be correct and the older so called outdated Lutheran works I bring forward invalid? Keep caring for the Word and the Cross wayyyy beyond Sunday for the hour and a half, good job!

branchofthevine · Jul 8, 2013

shturt678 said:
In the Churches and out 24/7 absolute Jesus' nut and the Cross 25/8 kind of thing. btw I did my serious learning by arguments when I thought I was 'correct' and humbly found out 'in error,' ie, nothing to do with you as only a side point. I hold a different view of the Kingdom even from the Lexicons, Wikipedia, and etc. so by majority standards, I in error again? Now the negative side: I view the uncomfortable Jn.8:51, with the one valid interpretation whatever that may mean in today's time, that deals with those are saved (instant of faith), more so with those that are "being saved" (in the Kingdom "outwardly") so they can be "shall be saved" (in the Kingdom "inwardly") upon one's passing. Just remove Jn.8:51 out of the equation then I too just needs to go to Church for the hour and a half on Sunday, and really be religious showing up for a mid-week Bible study. No sarcasm intended. I met Mr. Smith, not personally of course, when I was working on the NWO and bumped into his works. I'm the antithesis of any scholar of today and have a total different view of his view of "born again" and interpretation of Revelation, ie, he may very well be correct and the older so called outdated Lutheran works I bring forward invalid? Keep caring for the Word and the Cross wayyyy beyond Sunday for the hour and a half, good job!

I didn't mean to come across as if saying the Lutheran work is invalid. It seems that we do have a different view of the Kingdom, though for the life of me I can't honestly say I fully understand what you are trying to say :/

I'm still not quite sure of my opinion of going to Sunday services, but going to one doesn't equate being in the Kingdom, I think we can both agree to that.

frogman2x · Jul 8, 2013

christianmom2389 said:
I have been a Christian for a couple years now.. and I am still confused by all of the denominations.

There seem to be so many.. Which one is right? I wasn't raised in a certain one.. so I am looking at all of these from a complete outsider's perspective.

Make sure they referene the Bib le for what they teach.

>>I know that I need to study Christian history and find these answers myself..<<

You will have more success studying the Bible instead of Christians hisitory.

>> but just wondering if anybody would be able to share general information or how they were able to determine which denomination they were.

If you are looking for a church, visit a PCA church(Presbyterian Church in America). I know they emphasize personal Bible study to know about God and our walk with Him.

You will also find that they have very good Sunday school teachers and that is where I learned the most.

kermit

shturt678 · Jul 8, 2013

branchofthevine said:
I didn't mean to come across as if saying the Lutheran work is invalid. It seems that we do have a different view of the Kingdom, though for the life of me I can't honestly say I fully understand what you are trying to say :/

You didn't. I was over killing the point that modern Lutherans view my view as fallacious, let alone the other settings just for you to keep things in an honest perspective.

I'm still not quite sure of my opinion of going to Sunday services, but going to one doesn't equate being in the Kingdom, I think we can both agree to that.

In the Kingdom but "outwardly" from my view, going nor not going. I'll share something with you that I normally don't: This isn't in the Book of Concord. God is in the Churches, whether apostate or not, and He is measuring the hearts and puts Truth of His precious Word right in front of those he foreknew before creation. We just don't know who these "elect" are, although most claim they do and we don't know what this Truth actually is when God does place it right under our noses. It's a doom and gloom from the older out-dated Lutheran works that placed me even in a deep depression when I came out of school. Lasted for about two months and now lol at myself and sinfully at others. I don't think you want to go through a depression hence stay with the moderns. Just ol' old Jack and nice working with you.

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