Which news story is more devistating to you?

[JesusRox]

My vote went with "The Brutal Beheading of Nick Berg". He can't come back.

 

[Larry]

What, you mean with a stop watch or something? "Ok 5 min more over the prisoners, then we switch to the beheading!" vile acts are vile acts, and I don't think one cancels the other out. This is one of those "Eye for an eye" things that ends up with everyone being blind to anything but shedding more blood. (IMHO)
tulc(I'm whitetrash and Irish, I know everyone suffers when getting even is the only thing on people minds)

I think you know exactly what I meant.

You do get points for creative arguments, though.

 

[BigToe]

Why do people make it a game over who gets "outraged" over which events more. They were both horrible crimes against humanity and should both be looked upon with disgust.

 

[Elyse]

I'm not voting, because I think it's ridiculous to have a poll about outrage over both these atrocities. Our outrage and our "contests" over which is worse somehow seems disrespectful, and minimizes the whole thing. Maybe the space of time has been so short between them, that I'm not able to process them just yet. I feel numb and sad over both. It's not a contest. Everyone loses. I will say I expected more from our side, though, and I think the shame some of us feel over those actions may lead us to try to focus and assign blame as if it IS a contest. Fact is, we're all humans and we're all capable of unspeakable evil toward each other. I don't think God is cheering any of us now.

 

[Larry]

By the way, let's keep these posts real nice, everyone. Some people are extremely 'report-happy', with a trigger finger on that report button.

 

[Mϋzikdϋde]

I would really like to vote but I can't find the button for "Oversensationalizing vile acts to gain ratings"...

Also, posters at CF are doing a pretty good job of keeping the story alive. Can we have any more threads on the subject?

It's like when you pass road kill and are completely grossed out but you just gotta try to figure out what it was.

 

[praying]

They are both horrible.

There was an article in the NY times this morning regarding this question and a young man answered it eloquently:

"We justify killing by using technology," Mr. Jerrett said. "We use lasers and smart bombs. They cut someone's head off with a knife. We look at them like they're so barbaric," but "it's all killing, one way or another."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/13/national/13VOIC.html

Seeing the beheading makes it appear more barbaric especially given the method. That is the exact reason it was done that way and filmed. It is the use of psychological warfare. The beheading and the prisoner abuse (rape, sodomy, physical beatings) were barbaric acts.

I venture to say that if people had seen the abuse photos in relation to a crime (rape, sodomy or sexual assault) we would be describing them, as being committed by a depraved barbaric human being, because these are American soldiers committing the acts does not change how barbaric the acts were.

 

[praying]

I didn't vote either because it was either or wihtout the third choice both.

 

[Larry]

I would really like to vote but I can't find the button for "Oversensationalizing vile acts to gain ratings"...

Also, posters at CF are doing a pretty good job of keeping the story alive. Can we have any more threads on the subject?

It's like when you pass road kill and are completely grossed out but you just gotta try to figure out what it was.

I understand completely.

I am sure that these stories will run their course, fade in time, and take a back seat to newer events and stories.

 

[praying]

Both stories should be treated as seperate events, not intertwined to make it one worse than the other, with a slant of whatever political view you hold. As a Christian, I weep for all those involved.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to HumbleMan again.

 

[Larry]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to HumbleMan again.

Got it covered.

 

[renegade pariah]

I am not voting as I refuse to indulge in comparisons of degree of excess or style of abuse and hate.....but I do wonder at how this grieves the Holy Spirit. I do wonder how the family of Nick Berg feels, I do wonder how the prisoners, and their families who were ridiculed and abused feel. And I wonder how the victims of war and hate more often than not are the defenseless and the innocent.

 

[UberLutheran]

What both stories -- the beheading of Nick Berg, and the prisoner abuse at Al Gharib -- represent is profound moral evil.

At Al Gharib, we have people who were willing to compartmentalize their actions, subordinate their decision-making processes to their superiors and "follow orders", even though that meant they were willingly committing acts which were utterly despicable and profoundly immoral.

With Nick Berg, we have people (Al Queda) who have so completely abrogated their basic sense of humanity that they were able to take an innocent person, turn him from a fellow human into an object, and use that to justify killing him.

We have stooped to the level of Slobodan Milosevic and his use of ritualized sexual humiliation and torture (because rape and shoving a glowing wand into someone's orifices does constitute torture) and lost any moral high ground we could have claimed.

Al Queda has stooped to the level of the German Nazis and Russian Stalinists, who turned innocent people into subhuman objects and therefore justified their Final Solution of eliminating them.

Just like the German guards who justified colossal evil by claiming they were "following orders", the guards at Al Gharib (and those who support them) justify moral evil on a colossal scale by pointing fingers and saying they, too, were following orders. The guards at Al Gharib did not stop to think about the ramifications of their actions for even so much as a minute -- that their actions might generate reprisals from Al Queda.

Al Queda, in turn, doesn't realize (or refuses to realize) that their actions WILL result in massive retaliatory action by the United States.

I predict that this whole scenario will now keep escalating until one of two things happen:

1) one side or the other (or both) trigger a catastrophic and cataclysmic reaction, possibly involving nuclear weapons or biological weapons, resulting in the deaths of possibly millions of people; or

2) people of reason on both sides of the conflict figure out a way to reclaim the moral high ground and declare, "Enough of this."

I hope number two happens; but I greatly fear number one is going to be the result.

 

[Blessed75]

I would say you hit the nail on the head but then someone would twist that around to try and rile people up so I'll just say I agree with you.

You forgot one. "All of the Above"

 

[burrow_owl]

the torture business is potentially more devastating to the whole war effort - if it significantly contributes to failure on our part to secure an ally in the region, than all those lives and all that money will be for naught. That's a lotta lives, and a lotta money. What happened to Berg was truly horrible, but given what happened to Daniel Pearl, it could be hardly be said to be unforeseeable.

 

[Larry]

I would say you hit the nail on the head but then someone would twist that around to try and rile people up so I'll just say I agree with you.

'Equally devistating' has already been agreed to in this thread, without a problem.

And, let's not assume the motivations of others. When we do this, we are usually wrong, and may cause flare-ups in the threads, resulting in threads being closed.

Thanks.

 

[Blessed75]

I totally agree Toe - TOTALLY.

Why do people make it a game over who gets "outraged" over which events more. They were both horrible crimes against humanity and should both be looked upon with disgust.

 

[Arwen Undomiel]

I did express my personal outrage in the poll of Mr. Berg's beheading. My gut reaction is that at least the Iraqi prisoners still have heads.

But that in no way excuses or condones our soldiers who were involved in the torture. Both they AND the Islamic militants will have to answer for their actions before a judge much greater than any military court can produce.

 

[Blessed75]

I have no earthly idea what you're talking about but if you have a problem, the report button is to your right. Thanks!

'Equally devistating' has already been agreed to in this thread, without a problem.

And, let's not assume the motivations of others. When we do this, we are usually wrong, and may cause flare-ups in the threads, resulting in threads being closed.

Thanks.

edited to add that I can still say my input although others already have the same agreement as I. I don't see a problem with that.

 

[Elyse]

the torture business is potentially more devastating to the whole war effort - if it significantly contributes to failure on our part to secure an ally in the region, than all those lives and all that money will be for naught. That's a lotta lives, and a lotta money. What happened to Berg was truly horrible, but given what happened to Daniel Pearl, it could be hardly be said to be unforeseeable.

That's a good point, and I'd wager that our troops over there may be in more danger from the insurgents now than they already were.