Which Law Paul?

[HARK!]

119 Ministries presents a study which much more concisely gets at the truth in Paul's letters, than that of the study that I presented, which starts here: Paul on the Law: Romans Chapter 1

In order to understand which law Paul is speaking of, we must apply proper hermeneutics, and take each reference in it's own context. This presentation helps us to draw clear distinctions between the Law of Sin, and YHWH's eternal directions.

I look forward to when 119 starts breaking down each of Paul's letters, applying proper hermeneutics.

Shabbat shalom.

 

[BobRyan]

I like the point that the video makes regarding the Commandment to honor parents as "Moses said" and as "The Word of God" in Mark 7:6-13 showing how tradition was in violation of the commandments of God at the time of Christ in Mark 7.

 

[HARK!]

I like the point that the video makes regarding the Commandment to honor parents as "Moses said" and as "The Word of God" in Mark 7:6-13 showing how tradition was in violation of the commandments of God at the time of Christ in Mark 7.

This passage makes it clear that the Word of YHWH is found in Moses. In the beginning was the word.

However, Yahcob makes it clear that not all of the customs should be discounted.

(CLV) Ac 21:21
Now they were instructed concerning you that you teach all the Jews among the nations apostasy from Moses, telling them not to be circumcising their children, nor yet to be walking in the customs.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

119 Ministries presents a study which much more concisely gets at the truth in Paul's letters, than that of the study that I presented, which starts here: Paul on the Law: Romans Chapter 1

In order to understand which law Paul is speaking of, we must apply proper hermeneutics, and take each reference in it's own context. This presentation helps us to draw clear distinctions between the Law of Sin, and YHWH's eternal directions.

I look forward to when 119 starts breaking down each of Paul's letters, applying proper hermeneutics.

Shabbat shalom.

We should take into consideration the beginning of this chapter and how it may lead into a different interpretation.
Romans 7
7 Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

It's pretty clear we are no longer under the law according to his example.
Blessings

 

[HARK!]

It's pretty clear we are no longer under the law according to his example.

Which law?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Which law?

The law leading to death.
"5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death".

 

[HARK!]

The law leading to death.
"5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death".

Which law exactly would that be? This video provided us with seven. My study revealed eight. Can you name the law by name, as Paul named it?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Which law exactly would that be? This video provided us with seven. My study revealed eight. Can you name the law by name, as Paul named it?

It is all 613 of them. " Not one jot or tittle " can be removed or added.
Break one, break all.
James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

Anyway, Paul said " let every man be purseded in his own mind". All that we do is for the Lord.
Blessings.

 

[HARK!]

It is all 613 of them. " Not one jot or tittle " can be removed or added.
Break one, break all.
James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

Anyway, Paul said " let every man be purseded in his own mind". All that we do is for the Lord.
Blessings.

613? So you follow the Pharisee count? Well even the Pharisees disagree on this number.

However, Paul is clearly not speaking against the word of YHWH.

(CLV) Pr 6:23
For instruction is a lamp, and law is a light, And the reproofs of admonition are the way to life.

From the same chapter, in the same letter that you referenced:

(CLV) Ro 7:25
I thank God, through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Consequently, then, I myself, with the mind, indeed, am slaving for God's law, yet with the flesh for Sin's law.

You didn't reference the law, of the laws that Paul called by name.

Hermeneutics: Context, Context, Context!

 

[Soyeong]

We should take into consideration the beginning of this chapter and how it may lead into a different interpretation.
Romans 7
7 Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

It's pretty clear we are no longer under the law according to his example.
Blessings

In Romans 7:21-25, Paul said that he delighted in obeying the Law of God and served it with his mind, but contrasted it with the law of sin that was holding him captive, that was waging war against the law of his mind, which he he served with his flesh, so it should be worth considering which of the two laws he was referring to us not be under insofar as Romans 7:6 speaks about being delivered from a law that held us captive, yet you are treating the Law of God as being the same as the law of sin, and are wanting to be delivered from the Law of God that Paul delighting in obeying.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

613? So you follow the Pharisee count? Well even the Pharisees disagree on this number.

However, Paul is clearly not speaking against the word of YHWH.

(CLV) Pr 6:23
For instruction is a lamp, and law is a light, And the reproofs of admonition are the way to life.

From the same chapter, in the same letter that you referenced:

(CLV) Ro 7:25
I thank God, through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Consequently, then, I myself, with the mind, indeed, am slaving for God's law, yet with the flesh for Sin's law.

You didn't reference the law, of the laws that Paul called by name.

Hermeneutics: Context, Context, Context!

Was not Paul a Pharisee?
Indeed he never speaks againt the law of God. It is written in his heart.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

In Romans 7:21-25, Paul said that he delighted in obeying the Law of God and served it with his mind, but contrasted it with the law of sin that was holding him captive, that was waging war against the law of his mind, which he he served with his flesh, so it should be worth considering which of the two laws he was referring to us not be under insofar as Romans 7:6 speaks about being delivered from a law that held us captive, yet you are treating the Law of God as being the same as the law of sin, and are wanting to be delivered from the Law of God that Paul delighting in obeying.

The law of God exposes sin. The " law of sin", it is the result of breaking the law. The law of sin is bondage in other words , the flesh is under the bondage of sin and reveals all people as law breakers. We are now in the Spirit . That bondage has been lifted through Jesus Christ of Nazareth. The" yoke "of the law that exposes sin, that Paul delighted in obeying, is now written in his heart and not by letter.
2 Corinthians
Do we begin again to commend ourselves? Or do we need, as some others, epistles of commendation to you or letters of commendation from you? 2 You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read by all men; 3 clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.
4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Blessings

 

[Soyeong]

The law of God exposes sin. The " law of sin", it is the result of breaking the law. The law of sin is bondage in other words , the flesh is under the bondage of sin and reveals all people as law breakers. We are now in the Spirit . That bondage has been lifted through Jesus Christ of Nazareth. The" yoke "of the law that exposes sin, that Paul delighted in obeying, is now written in his heart and not by letter.

Paul said that the Law of God is good and that he wanted to do good, but that there was a law of sin that was working within his members to cause him not to do the good that he wanted to do, so the law of sin is not the result of breaking the law, but rather it is what causes us to break the law. In other words, the law of sin stirs up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death (Romans 7:5), so we are under the law of God insofar as we are still obligated to refrain from doing what God has revealed to be sin, but we are not under the law of sin. In other words, the freedom that we have in Christ is the freedom from sin, not the freedom to do what God has revealed though His law to be sin. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Law of God.

2 Corinthians
Do we begin again to commend ourselves? Or do we need, as some others, epistles of commendation to you or letters of commendation from you? 2 You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read by all men; 3 clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.
4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Blessings

Changing the medium upon which the Law of God is written from on stone to our hearts does not change the content of what it instructs us to do. For example, the law against theft written on stone is the same content as the law against theft written on our hearts.

 

[BobRyan]

This passage makes it clear that the Word of YHWH is found in Moses. In the beginning was the word.

However, Yahcob makes it clear that not all of the customs should be discounted.

(CLV) Ac 21:21
Now they were instructed concerning you that you teach all the Jews among the nations apostasy from Moses, telling them not to be circumcising their children, nor yet to be walking in the customs.

In Acts 21 they tell Paul that there is a distinction between what Jews were being commanded vs Gentiles.

Acts 21:“You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law; 21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to abandon Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 So what is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come.

23 Therefore, do as we tell you: we have four men who have a vow upon themselves; 24 take them along and purify yourself together with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and then everyone will know that there is nothing to what they have been told about you, but that you yourself also conform, keeping the Law. 25 But regarding the Gentiles who have believed, we sent a letter, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and what is strangled, and from sexual immorality.” 26 Then Paul took along the men, and the next day, after purifying himself together with them, he went into the temple giving notice of the completion of the days of purification, until the sacrifice was offered for each one of them.

Notice that they engage in the very sacrifices in vs 26 that Hebrews 10 says are ended.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Paul said that the Law of God is good and that he wanted to do good, but that there was a law of sin that was working within his members to cause him not to do the good that he wanted to do, so the law of sin is not the result of breaking the law, but rather it is what causes us to break the law. In other words, the law of sin stirs up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death (Romans 7:5), so we are under the law of God insofar as we are still obligated to refrain from doing what God has revealed to be sin, but we are not under the law of sin. In other words, the freedom that we have in Christ is the freedom from sin, not the freedom to do what God has revealed though His law to be sin. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Law of God.



Changing the medium upon which the Law of God is written from on stone to our hearts does not change the content of what it instructs us to do. For example, the law against theft written on stone is the same content as the law against theft written on our hearts.

In the end it does not matter as we are all in the Spirit.
Blessings

 

[Hank77]

The law leading to death.
"5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death".

I agree with you, I think. Here is a link to Clarke's Commentary in BibleHub. Clarke wasn't a kitchen table apologist like most of us. He read Hebrew, Greek, etc. He read the most ancient MSS available and owned some himself. He collaborated with theologians such as Mc Knight, Lightfoot, etc. So when someone says hermeneutics, hermeneutics we can turn to theologians such as Clarke who understood and practiced hermeneutics.

Romans 7 is written to the Jews to convince them that they can accept Christ and His New Covenant law without being guilty of sinning against Moses' law and therefore, God because Moses' law is like the dead husband that the wife is no longer bound to. As Hebrews also says, Moses' law was soon to fade away.
Romans 7 Clarke's Commentary

 

[HARK!]

In Acts 21 they tell Paul that there is a distinction between what Jews were being commanded vs Gentiles.

Jew? What is a Jew? The letter J didn't even exist until about the Year 1500 AD. So what is the Hebrew word that was being expressed here? If you mean Yahudim (Yah's people) there has always been a distinction between those of the Goyim and the Yahudim, including those Egyptians who entered a threshold covenant with YHWH before the first Pesach. When these Egyptians, entered that covenant; they became Yahudim, fellow citizens of Israel.

Acts 21:“You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law; 21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to abandon Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 So what is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come.

23 Therefore, do as we tell you: we have four men who have a vow upon themselves; 24 take them along and purify yourself together with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and then everyone will know that there is nothing to what they have been told about you, but that you yourself also conform, keeping the Law. 25 But regarding the Gentiles who have believed, we sent a letter, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and what is strangled, and from sexual immorality.” 26 Then Paul took along the men, and the next day, after purifying himself together with them, he went into the temple giving notice of the completion of the days of purification, until the sacrifice was offered for each one of them.


Notice that they engage in the very sacrifices in vs 26 that Hebrews 10 says are ended.

Where in Acts 21 can we find the word θυσιαν?

 

[HARK!]

I agree with you, I think. Here is a link to Clarke's Commentary in BibleHub. Clarke wasn't a kitchen table apologist like most of us. He read Hebrew, Greek, etc. He read the most ancient MSS available and owned some himself. He collaborated with theologians such as Mc Knight, Lightfoot, etc. So when someone says hermeneutics, hermeneutics we can turn to theologians such as Clarke who understood and practiced hermeneutics.

Romans 7 is written to the Jews to convince them that they can accept Christ and His New Covenant law without being guilty of sinning against Moses' law and therefore, God because Moses' law is like the dead husband that the wife is no longer bound to. As Hebrews also says, Moses' law was soon to fade away.
Romans 7 Clarke's Commentary

Hebrews mentions nothing of YHWH's eternal Law passing away.

Here is what Paul himself says in Romans 7:


(CLV) Ro 7:12
So that the law, indeed, is holy, and the precept holy and just and good.

(CLV) Ro 7:22
For I am gratified with the law of God as to the man within,

(CLV) Ro 7:25
I thank God, through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Consequently, then, I myself, with the mind, indeed, am slaving for God's law, yet with the flesh for Sin's law.

Paul trumps Clarke

More importantly, here is what Yahshua has to say on this subject:

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

Yahshua trumps Paul; but that's OK. They're in agreement.

Clarke's commentary fails the Deuteronomy 13 test.

 

[HARK!]

In the end it does not matter as we are all in the Spirit.
Blessings

YHWH tells us the characteristics of this Ruach (Spirit).

(CLV) Ezk 36:26
I will give you a new heart, And a new spirit will I bestow within you, And I will take away the heart of stone from your flesh, And I will give you a heart of flesh.

(CLV) Ezk 36:27
My spirit shall I bestow within you, And I will make it that you shall walk in My statutes and observe My ordinances, And you will obey them.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

YHWH tells us the characteristics of this Ruach (Spirit).

(CLV) Ezk 36:26
I will give you a new heart, And a new spirit will I bestow within you, And I will take away the heart of stone from your flesh, And I will give you a heart of flesh.

(CLV) Ezk 36:27
My spirit shall I bestow within you, And I will make it that you shall walk in My statutes and observe My ordinances, And you will obey them.

Your quoting the Old Covenant statues. We now under the New Covenant but like I said, it does not matter. Jesus Christ of Nazareth said " If they are not against us they are for us". I am for Jesus Christ of Nazareth.