Which KJV verse is correct and which is incorrect?

Beth77 · Saturday at 9:48 PM

One KJV verse says that some are punished forever. Another KJV verse says that all are made alive. They can't BOTH be true, so which one is, please?

Matthew 25:46
King James Version
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

1 Corinthians 15:22 King James Version
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Hoping2 · Saturday at 10:01 PM

Beth77 said:
One KJV verse says that some are punished forever. Another KJV verse says that all are made alive. They can't BOTH be true, so which one is, please?

Matthew 25:46
King James Version
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

1 Corinthians 15:22 King James Version
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

All the verses are true, but they have different subjects.
Matt. 25 delineates between righteous and unrighteous people.
Paul, in 1 Cor 15, does the same when he stipulates that only those in Christ will be made alive.
Those not in Christ, will suffer eternally as the unrighteous.

Beth77 · Saturday at 10:23 PM

Hoping2 said:
Paul, in 1 Cor 15, does the same when he stipulates that only those in Christ will be made alive.

That's not what it says.

DragonFox91 · Saturday at 10:35 PM

Paul is writing to Christians, those in Christ. He is saying we all in Christ are made alive in Christ. Not all are in Christ so not all are made alive in Christ.

I like how you post a lot @Beth77

Hoping2 · Saturday at 10:55 PM

Beth77 said:
That's not what it says.

Perhaps you should look at it again.

Gregory Thompson · Sunday at 12:13 AM

Beth77 said:
One KJV verse says that some are punished forever. Another KJV verse says that all are made alive. They can't BOTH be true, so which one is, please?

Matthew 25:46
King James Version
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

1 Corinthians 15:22 King James Version
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

People of this perspective tend to attack the word eternal and everlasting and attribute the Revelation event where Jesus makes all things new where all shall be made alive.

I tend to find flaws in most end theologies, including Ultimate Reconciliation, Annihilationism & Eternal Torment.

trophy33 · Sunday at 12:16 AM

Gregory Thompson said:
I tend to find flaws in most end theologies, including Ultimate Reconciliation, Annihilationism & Eternal Torment.

I tend to find flaws in basically all theologies. It seems to me that Bible is simply not written in a consistent, systematic way and therefore there are some contradictory ideas in it.

So many denominations and "no two Christians agree in details" is not by accident. It is because Bible is not a scientific dictionary, but a composition of writings that were not originally meant to be put side by side and taken word for word, literally.

Gregory Thompson · Sunday at 12:21 AM

trophy33 said:
I tend to find flaws in basically all theologies. It seems to me that Bible is simply not written in a consistent, systematic way and therefore there are some contradictory ideas in it.

So many denominations and "no two Christians agree in details" is not by accident. It is because Bible is not a scientific dictionary, but a composition of writings that were not originally meant to be put side by side and taken word for word, literally.

It's like a body of writings, much like in biology, how things are arranged tends to matter.

Radagast · Sunday at 12:45 AM

Beth77 said:
1 Corinthians 15:22 King James Version
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Those who are in Christ will be made alive.

Beth77 · Sunday at 2:40 AM

Radagast said:
Those who are in Christ will be made alive.

Gregory Thompson · Sunday at 5:20 AM

Radagast said:
Those who are in Christ will be made alive.

So only some of Adam's descendants die of natural causes?

Since only some will be made alive, I wonder where those immortals are hiding.

I wonder how one becomes one of those immortals.

Maria Billingsley · Sunday at 9:07 AM

Beth77 said:
One KJV verse says that some are punished forever. Another KJV verse says that all are made alive. They can't BOTH be true, so which one is, please?

Matthew 25:46
King James Version
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

1 Corinthians 15:22 King James Version
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

We can't cherry pick one line in scripture to prove a theological view point. Here is the entire verse:

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

Practicing hermenuetics can be a bit painstaking but this one is pretty easy.
All will be made alive but in order. First Jesus Christ of Nazareth, the firstfruits, then those who are in Him. All of these people will be made alive. The "who are" is in italics so that it is emphasized to the reader that this group is the one set apart and made Holy.
Blessings

Spiritual Jew · Sunday at 9:34 AM

Beth77 said:
One KJV verse says that some are punished forever. Another KJV verse says that all are made alive. They can't BOTH be true, so which one is, please?

Matthew 25:46
King James Version
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

1 Corinthians 15:22 King James Version
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Did you not read the verse that follows 1 Corinthians 15:22? The context of that verse, as it relates to being made alive (bodily resurrected) is only in relation to those who belong to Christ and not in relation to those who do not belong to Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

The context here is only in relation to being made alive in Christ in terms of inheriting bodily immortality with Christ. This does not mean that unbelievers will not also be resurrected, but that they will not be resurrected in Christ. The Bible is clear that unbelievers will be resurrected also (Daniel 12:2, John 5:28-29, Acts 24:15), but that is not part of the context of what Paul is talking about in 1 Corinthians 15:22-23.

Spiritual Jew · Sunday at 9:37 AM

trophy33 said:
I tend to find flaws in basically all theologies. It seems to me that Bible is simply not written in a consistent, systematic way and therefore there are some contradictory ideas in it.

The Bible has no contradictions! Shame on you for saying so! It is not intended to all be read in a straightforward way or in "a consistent, systematic way". That's why Paul said we need spiritual discernment from the Holy Spirit to understand the deep things or the solid food of God's word (1 Corinthians 2:9-3:3).

trophy33 · Sunday at 9:49 AM

Spiritual Jew said:
The Bible has no contradictions! Shame on you for saying so!

oh sorry, oh sorry, oh sorry, forgive me for saying what I think after studying the Bible for decades.

BobRyan · Sunday at 10:15 AM

Beth77 said:
One KJV verse says that some are punished forever. Another KJV verse says that all are made alive. They can't BOTH be true, so which one is, please?

Matthew 25:46
King James Version
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

1 Corinthians 15:22 King James Version
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

John 5 - says there are two resurrection
-- one for the saints (see 1 Cor 15, 1 Thess 4:13-18 etc first resurreciton Rev 20:4-5 ) and one for the wicked Rev 20:5
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

John 5:
28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth

—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
-- and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

In Phil 3 Paul says he wants to "Attain to the resurrection"
11 "if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead."

-- ie the right resurrection not the one for the lost
==============================
Matt 10:28 KJV all versions... NASB, NKJV etc.

28 Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. NASB
28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. NKJV
28 ... fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. KJV

2 Peter 2:6 and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;

1 Cor 15 is specifically speaking of the saints being made a live at Christ's coming/appearing/rapture

Rev 20 says the all wicked come to life "After the 1000 years are over and are then judged and cast into the lake of fire.

Clare73 · Sunday at 12:47 PM

trophy33 said:
I tend to find flaws in basically all theologies. It seems to me that Bible is simply not written in a consistent, systematic way and therefore there are some contradictory ideas in it.

Such as?

Hoping2 · Sunday at 2:39 PM

Gregory Thompson said:
So only some of Adam's descendants die of natural causes?

I can't figure out how you got that question from the post you answered, as it is in regard to 1 Cor 15:22, which refers to post-resurrection life. ?
Adam ?

Gregory Thompson said:
Since only some will be made alive, I wonder where those immortals are hiding.

You will have to wait for the day of judgement to see them.

Gregory Thompson said:
I wonder how one becomes one of those immortals.

Thankfully, God gave us the answer to that question...Repent (of sin), and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins ! (Acts 2:38)
Then, endure faithfully until the end !

The Liturgist · Sunday at 3:46 PM

Beth77 said:
One KJV verse says that some are punished forever. Another KJV verse says that all are made alive. They can't BOTH be true, so which one is, please?

Matthew 25:46
King James Version
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

1 Corinthians 15:22 King James Version
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

They actually are both correct; the correct answer is that through Christ we are made righteous (Lutherans call this imputed righteousness; within Eastern Orthodoxy we don’t have a term specifically for this, but regard it as part of the process of theosis, which John Wesley translated into English as entire sanctification) and those in Christ, who is the New Adam, will be saved, whereas those without shall wind up in the Outer Darkness.

How is it that we can be in Christ? Well in 1 Corinthians St. Paul identifies the Christian Church, however we define it, as the Body of Christ, and so by being baptized (or intending to be baptized, if we should perchance die before immersion) we are grafted onto the Body of Christ which ensures our salvation.

My dearly beloved brethren @prodromos @FenderTL5, @Xeno.of.athens and @ViaCrucis can explain this matter from an Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic and traditional Protestant manner respectively, since you have shown an interest in all three faiths; I would encourage you to seek them out if they are unable to post here directly.

hedrick · Sunday at 4:14 PM

The Liturgist said:
They actually are both correct; the correct answer is that through Christ we are made righteous (Lutherans call this imputed righteousness; within Eastern Orthodoxy we don’t have a term specifically for this, but regard it as part of the process of theosis, which John Wesley translated into English as entire sanctification) and those in Christ, who is the New Adam, will be saved, whereas those without shall wind up in the Outer Darkness.

How is it that we can be in Christ? Well in 1 Corinthians St. Paul identifies the Christian Church, however we define it, as the Body of Christ, and so by being baptized (or intending to be baptized, if we should perchance die before immersion) we are grafted onto the Body of Christ which ensures our salvation.

My dearly beloved brethren @prodromos @FenderTL5, @Xeno.of.athens and @ViaCrucis can explain this matter from an Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic and traditional Protestant manner respectively, since you have shown an interest in all three faiths; I would encourage you to seek them out if they are unable to post here directly.

I am a universalist on alternate days. On those when I am not, I think the traditional responses are pretty much all double-talk, trying to explain why obviously parallel clauses using all aren’t really parallel. However Dunn's commentary on Romans makes an interesting suggestion: that Paul believed in eschatological universalism. I believe what he means by that is that eventually all will come to Christ, but not that everyone in history has done so. Rom 11 can be read that way. Israel is temporarily blinded but will eventually all come to Christ. That does not necessarily mean that every Jew will come to Christ, but that in the end all will.

As to traditional responses, Calvin's comment on Rom 5:18 is typical. (He ignores the issue in 1 Cor 15:22). Christ died for the whole world, but not everyone takes advantage of it. (Note that Calvin probably didn't believe in the L in TULIP.)

Which KJV verse is correct and which is incorrect?

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