• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Which is easier?

  • An evolutionist to sit through Instant Creation 101

  • An instant creationist to sit through Evolution 101

  • Neither


Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.

LightHorseman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2006
8,123
363
✟10,643.00
Faith
Catholic
Politics
AU-Liberals
Creationism should be taught in mathematics or history class and evolution should be taught in theology or pseudoscience class where it belongs.
If you can provide any mathematical or historical evidence to support Creationism, then sure. Until that time, well, I guess we're stuck with listening to how unfair the scientific method is for demanding things like evidence and replicable experimentation before considering a theory worthwhile or valid.
 
Upvote 0

driewerf

a day at the Zoo
Mar 7, 2010
3,434
1,961
✟267,108.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Your logic needs more improvement than your English.
I don't think I have to take lessons in logic from you, boy.

1. Do you think it's a good idea to have creationism taught as the only valid scientific theory in biology class?
No.
2. Do you think it's a good idea to make it illegal to teach Darwinism in school?
No.
3. If Darwinism is such a solid and sound hypothesis, why are Darwinists so afraid of alternative theories?
You make a big mistake against logic, boy. You make a false assumption and try to build an argument from that.
Who says scientists (or as you like it, darwinists) are afraid of alternative theories? Show you theories, show the evidence and they will be judged by their merrit.

Now, scientists are angry (and saddened) (note: not afraid), not by creeationism but by creationists. For creationist zeaots try to bypass all the checks and controls science has established to avoid lunatic theories.
Peer review, academic journals, scientific literature? No, creationists present their rubbish not to qualified scientists but to uneducated christian masses. Or worse, they manipulate children. Really, they display a very high moral standard by brainwashing children.

Avoiding of bias, double check? No, on the contrary, creationists embrace bias, like Ken Ham en Eric Hovind who advocate even the biblical bias.

Correcting errors? No, creationists still are uttering the same mistakes and lies that have been refuted a thousand times.

Keeping up with the new findings? No. Creationists still claim no tranistional fossils haven eebn found. Ignoring at least a dozen of transtional forms that haven eebn formed.
etc etc ad nauseam.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

driewerf

a day at the Zoo
Mar 7, 2010
3,434
1,961
✟267,108.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Of course you wouldn't know of any alternative theories because it is illegal to teach them because Darwinists are terrified of all hypotheses besides evolution.

You say that on account of ignorance and a lack of education.
That's irrelevant because it is illegal to teach any hypothesis other than evolution in public school and it is illegal to present any evidence that contradicts that hypothesis.


And the school system is the only way scientific knowledge is spread? Are you suggesting you learned nothing after leving school? This explains a lot.

Never heard of scientific journals, papers, congresses etc?

That's the way science is divulgated among peers.
 
Upvote 0

hydro jen

Active Member
Aug 18, 2010
68
0
✟182.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
I live in the United States where it is illegal to teach any evidence that contradicts evolution in public school.
If you had any EVIDENCE I am sure it would be welcomed with open arms by every scientist in America, but you don't, that's why you and yours are making so much noise.

Creationism is impotent and a waste of every ones time, people have even stopped laughing at it, now they just ignore it, perhaps it's time for another court case? what do you think?
 
Upvote 0

Agonaces of Susa

Evolution is not science: legalize creationism.
Nov 18, 2009
3,605
50
San Diego
Visit site
✟19,153.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Constitution
Actually, no, science is about evidence.
Therefore evolution is not science.

Evolution is about ignoring evidence and making evidence that contradicts it illegal.

"Well, and I think that's because of a double standard in the treatment of evidence. Evidence that goes along with the current theories is treated according to one set of rules whereas evidence that radically contradicts the current theories is judged by a much stricter standard. It's as if the rules of the game are suddenly changed, as if somebody were doing a high jump and one person jumps the five meter bar and then suddenly the next person who comes up doesn't just have to jump the five meter bar they have to jump the ten meter bars. And actually the standards are so strict that even the evidence that goes along with the current theories could not possibly meet these same standards. So that's what I mean about a double standard in the treatment of evidence." -- Michael A. Cremo, author, 2005

"Our work at Hueyatlaco has been rejected by most archaeologists because it contradicts that theory [evolution], period." -- Virginia Steen-McIntyre, tephrochronologist, March 30th 1981

"The problem as I see it is much bigger than Hueyatlaco. It concerns the manipulation of scientific thought and the suppression of 'Enigmatic Data,' data that challenges the prevailing mode of thinking. Hueyatlaco certainly does that! Not being an anthropologist, I didn't realize the full significance of our dates back in 1973, nor how deeply woven into our thought the current theory of human evolution had become. Our work at Hueyatlaco has been rejected by most archaeologists because it contradicts that theory [evolution], period. Their reasoning is circular. H. sapiens sapiens evolved ca. 30,000-50,000 years ago in Eurasia. Therefore any H.s.s. tools 250,000 years old found in Mexico are impossible because H.s.s. evolved ca. 30,000- ... etc. Such thinking makes for self-satisfied archaeologists but lousy science!" -- Virginia Steen-McIntyre, tephrochronologist, March 30th 1981

Steen-McIntyre, V., et al., Geologic Evidence for Age Deposits at Hueyatlaco Archaeological Site Valsequillo Mexico, Quaternary Research, Number 16, Pages 1-17, 1981

If you can provide any mathematical or historical evidence to support Creationism, then sure.
Absurd.

I can provide mathematical evidence to support Creationism in Isaac Newton's treatise on mathematics, namely the Principia.

General Scholium Book III: http://hss.fullerton.edu/philosophy/GeneralScholium.htm


I can provide historical evidence to support Creationism in any ancient text from any country on Earth.

That must be why Intelligent Design is now being taught in history class as part of the national curriculum in Queensland public schools in Australia: http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ional-curriculum/story-e6freoof-1225872896736

On the other hand, there is not one single mathematical formula or equation in Darwin's book On The Origin of Species.

YouTube - Dr. David Berlinski: Math and Darwinian Evolution (Part 2)

YouTube - Dr. David Berlinski: What Does It Take for Change? (Clip 5)

Until that time, well, I guess we're stuck with listening to how unfair the scientific method is for demanding things like evidence and replicable experimentation before considering a theory worthwhile or valid.
Evolution via natural selection and undirected random mutation has never been reproduced in the laboratory and it never will be.

"Empedocles, then, was in error when he said that many of the characters presented by animals were merely the result of incidental occurrences during their development; for instance, that the backbone was divided as it is into vertebrae, because it happened to be broken owing to the contorted position of the foetus in the womb. In so saying he overlooked the fact that propogation implies a creative seed endowed with certain formative properties. Secondly, he neglected another fact, namely, that the parent animal pre-exists, not only in idea, but actually in time. For man is generated from man; and thus it is the possession of certain characters by the parent that determines the development of like characters in the child." -- Aristotle, On the Parts of Animals, Book I, 350 B.C.

"There are some too who ascribe this heavenly sphere and all the worlds to spontaneity. They say that the vortex arose spontaneously, i.e. the motion that separated and arranged in its present order all that exists. This statement might well cause surprise. For they are asserting that chance is not responsible for the existence or generation of animals and plants, nature or mind or something of the kind being the cause of them (for it is not any chance thing that comes from a given seed but an olive from one kind and a man from another); and yet at the same time they assert that the heavenly sphere and the divinest of visible things arose spontaneously, having no such cause as is assigned to animals and plants. Yet if this is so, it is a fact which deserves to be dwelt upon, and something might well have been said about it. For besides the other absurdities of the statement, it is the more absurd that people should make it when they see nothing coming to be spontaneously in the heavens ...." -- Aristotle, Physics, Book II, 350 B.C.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Agonaces of Susa

Evolution is not science: legalize creationism.
Nov 18, 2009
3,605
50
San Diego
Visit site
✟19,153.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Constitution
If you had any EVIDENCE I am sure it would be welcomed with open arms by every scientist in America, but you don't, that's why you and yours are making so much noise.
LOL.

You mean the illegal and forbidden evidence you are deliberately ignoring because you believe and have faith it doesn't exist?

"Our work at Hueyatlaco has been rejected by most archaeologists because it contradicts that theory [evolution], period." -- Virginia Steen-McIntyre, tephrochronologist, March 30th 1981

"The problem as I see it is much bigger than Hueyatlaco. It concerns the manipulation of scientific thought and the suppression of 'Enigmatic Data,' data that challenges the prevailing mode of thinking. Hueyatlaco certainly does that! Not being an anthropologist, I didn't realize the full significance of our dates back in 1973, nor how deeply woven into our thought the current theory of human evolution had become. Our work at Hueyatlaco has been rejected by most archaeologists because it contradicts that theory [evolution], period. Their reasoning is circular. H. sapiens sapiens evolved ca. 30,000-50,000 years ago in Eurasia. Therefore any H.s.s. tools 250,000 years old found in Mexico are impossible because H.s.s. evolved ca. 30,000- ... etc. Such thinking makes for self-satisfied archaeologists but lousy science!" -- Virginia Steen-McIntyre, tephrochronologist, March 30th 1981

Steen-McIntyre, V., et al., Geologic Evidence for Age Deposits at Hueyatlaco Archaeological Site Valsequillo Mexico, Quaternary Research, Number 16, Pages 1-17, 1981

Creationism is impotent and a waste of every ones time, people have even stopped laughing at it, now they just ignore it, perhaps it's time for another court case? what do you think?
Evolution is a debunked Victorian Age hypothesis with no supporting evidence.

All the scientific evidence contradicts evolution.

Evolution is a pseudoscientific joke contrived by Satan.
 
Upvote 0

driewerf

a day at the Zoo
Mar 7, 2010
3,434
1,961
✟267,108.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married

Then show us that evidence.
We're not in a class room here. You can not hide behind a (fictional) rule that forbids the teaching of alternatives in the classroom. This not a class room. Or shall you stretch the court rules to discussion forums too?
 
Upvote 0

Agonaces of Susa

Evolution is not science: legalize creationism.
Nov 18, 2009
3,605
50
San Diego
Visit site
✟19,153.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Constitution
Then show us that evidence.
We're not in a class room here. You can not hide behind a (fictional) rule that forbids the teaching of alternatives in the classroom. This not a class room. Or shall you stretch the court rules to discussion forums too?
I already showed you the evidence but you deliberately and customarily ignored it.
 
Upvote 0

Agonaces of Susa

Evolution is not science: legalize creationism.
Nov 18, 2009
3,605
50
San Diego
Visit site
✟19,153.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Constitution
Upvote 0

driewerf

a day at the Zoo
Mar 7, 2010
3,434
1,961
✟267,108.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married

So, a few out of context quotes are the ultimate evidence that evoltuion is wrong. A quick search on the internet learned me that the debate is going on. This is a sign of good science. It appears also that even not everybody in the archeological team supported the dating of 260.000 years.

So, your claim isn't that solid at all.
 
Upvote 0

Agonaces of Susa

Evolution is not science: legalize creationism.
Nov 18, 2009
3,605
50
San Diego
Visit site
✟19,153.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Constitution
I'm done here.
Try Europe.

BBC NEWS | Europe | Serb schools told to drop Darwin


Darwin Under Fire in Poland: Education Ministry with a Bent towards Creationism - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

Poland's deputy education minister has called for Polish schools to ditch Darwinism in favor of creationism.
 
Upvote 0

Agonaces of Susa

Evolution is not science: legalize creationism.
Nov 18, 2009
3,605
50
San Diego
Visit site
✟19,153.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Constitution
So, a few out of context quotes are the ultimate evidence that evoltuion is wrong.
LOL.

You ignored the context.

A quick search on the internet learned me that the debate is going on. This is a sign of good science.
You're welcome.

It appears also that even not everybody in the archeological team supported the dating of 260.000 years.
Duh. Of course evolutionists don't believe in scientific dating methods.

So, your claim isn't that solid at all.
"I determined fission-track ages on zircons from two of the tephra units overlying the artifacted beds. The Hueyatlaco ash yielded a zircon fission-track age of 370,000+/-200,000 years, and the Tetela brown mud yielded an age of 600,000+/-340,000 years. There is a 96 percent chance that the true age of these tephras lie within the range defined by the age and the plus or minus value. Now, there were four different geological dating techniques that suggested a far greater antiquity to the artifacts than anyone in the archaeological community wanted to admit." -- Charles W. Naeser, chemist, April 2007

Do you claim to know more about geochemistry and uranium dating than Charles Naeser?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2005/mar/11/20050311-095632-7802r/

 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

hydro jen

Active Member
Aug 18, 2010
68
0
✟182.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
Try Europe.

BBC NEWS | Europe | Serb schools told to drop Darwin



Darwin Under Fire in Poland: Education Ministry with a Bent towards Creationism - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International
Why did you miss out the rest of it??

Maciej Giertych also happens to be the father of the LPR's leader, Roman Giertych, who is Poland's education minister as well as deputy prime minister. Giertych junior has, however, distanced himself from Orzechowski's remarks, saying that the theory of evolution would continue to be taught in Polish schools -- "as long as most scientists in our country say that (it) is the right theory."

Orzechowski's comments have been greeted with angry protests in Poland. The country's scientific community has condemned Orzechowski and affirmed their support for teaching Darwinian theories of evolution. Prominent molecular biologist Maciej Zylicz told the magazine Nature that "the point that really requires further discussion is not evolution, but how a minister can say such stupid things."

Other dissenting voices indulged in some evolutionary speculation of their own. Young Polish demonstrators chanted that "Giertych in particular is descended from apes," according to the German daily Tagesspiegel. The Polish newspaper Nie had another theory of certain politicians' genetic background: it commented caustically that some people clearly had "donkeys rather than apes as their ancestors."
 
Upvote 0

Skaloop

Agnostic atheist, pro-choice anti-abortion
May 10, 2006
16,332
899
48
Burnaby
Visit site
✟36,546.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-NDP
What is it then?

The null hypothesis, you mean? It's that there was not evolution.

And why is it illegal?

It isn't.

If you think evolution can be falsified, then why is it illegal to teach any evidence that contradicts evolution?

There is no such evidence. But even if there were, it's not illegal to teach it.

So you claim.

Even if such evidence existed, and it would require a server farm to catalogue it all, it would still be illegal to teach it.

No, it wouldn't be illegal.


It is not impossible, nor is the human brain irreducibly complex, and the idea that the bacterial flagellum is irreducibly complex was disproven ages ago.
 
Upvote 0

Agonaces of Susa

Evolution is not science: legalize creationism.
Nov 18, 2009
3,605
50
San Diego
Visit site
✟19,153.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Constitution
The null hypothesis, you mean? It's that there was not evolution.
I thought you said that's impossible...

It isn't.
What planet do you live on again?

There is no such evidence.
LOL.

All scientific evidence contradicts evolution.

"The problem as I see it is much bigger than Hueyatlaco. It concerns the manipulation of scientific thought and the suppression of 'Enigmatic Data,' data that challenges the prevailing mode of thinking. Hueyatlaco certainly does that! Not being an anthropologist, I didn't realize the full significance of our dates back in 1973, nor how deeply woven into our thought the current theory of human evolution had become. Our work at Hueyatlaco has been rejected by most archaeologists because it contradicts that theory [evolution], period. Their reasoning is circular. H. sapiens sapiens evolved ca. 30,000-50,000 years ago in Eurasia. Therefore any H.s.s. tools 250,000 years old found in Mexico are impossible because H.s.s. evolved ca. 30,000- ... etc. Such thinking makes for self-satisfied archaeologists but lousy science!" -- Virginia Steen-McIntyre, tephrochronologist, March 30th 1981

"I determined fission-track ages on zircons from two of the tephra units overlying the artifacted beds. The Hueyatlaco ash yielded a zircon fission-track age of 370,000+/-200,000 years, and the Tetela brown mud yielded an age of 600,000+/-340,000 years. There is a 96 percent chance that the true age of these tephras lie within the range defined by the age and the plus or minus value. Now, there were four different geological dating techniques that suggested a far greater antiquity to the artifacts than anyone in the archaeological community wanted to admit." -- Charles W. Naeser, chemist, April 2007

There is no evidence for biological evolution.

But even if there were, it's not illegal to teach it.

No, it wouldn't be illegal.
I live in the United States where it is illegal to teach any evidence that contradicts evolution in public school.

It is not impossible, nor is the human brain irreducibly complex, and the idea that the bacterial flagellum is irreducibly complex was disproven ages ago.
LOL.

And 2+2=5.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.