Which Is Better...Non-Denominational Or Denominational??......

peebly63 · Mar 25, 2013

Albion said:
Like over-emphasizing the gifts of the Holy Spirit?

yes..I went to a pentecostal church who believed if you did not speak in tongues you had not been in filled with the Holy spirit...

certain groups will not even eat the bread and drink the wine at the Lord's supper even though it was a clear message to do so in remembrance of him...

all denominations seem to add, subtract, inflate or deflate certain parts of the bible for no greater reason than doctrine........

some go to the extremes of having their own re written version of the bible that is changed to suit there doctrine which is very dangerous, others go to the extreme of producing another testament of the bible, now that is seriously dangerous...

Albion · Mar 25, 2013

peebly63 said:
yes..I went to a pentecostal church who believed if you did not speak in tongues you had not been in filled with the Holy spirit...

certain groups will not even eat the bread and drink the wine at the Lord's supper even though it was a clear message to do so in remembrance of him...

all denominations seem to add, subtract, inflate or deflate certain parts of the bible for no greater reason than doctrine........

some go to the extremes of having their own re written version of the bible that is changed to suit there doctrine which is very dangerous, others go to the extreme of producing another testament of the bible, now that is seriously dangerous...

I still don't think we've established that there's a thing that differentiates a "denominational" congregation from a "non-denominational" congregation except that the non-denom does not 1) make clear up front what it believes, and 2) is a stray congregation operating like a mini-denomination without any higher supervision. I can't see how either of those characteristics is an improvement.

For sure, we have not seen that a non-denom is less extreme in any way than a denominational church.

peebly63 · Mar 25, 2013

Albion said:
I still don't think we've established that there's a thing that differentiates a "denominational" congregation from a "non-denominational" congregation except that the non-denom does not 1) make clear up front what it believes, and 2) is a stray congregation operating like a mini-denomination without any higher supervision. I can't see how either of those characteristics is an improvement.

For sure, we have not seen that a non-denom is less extreme in any way than a denominational church.

the non denoms.. have a statement of faith which will tell you what they believe so you know what you are getting in to but i believe in the denominational ones especially the ones right on the fringes and some would argue are not even Christian such as the JW'S AND LDS force their members to believe some pretty outlandish and often non scriptural doctrines..

the non denoms don't seem as member must kind of churches, the teaching still may come through but it does not seem as regimented that you must believe it or else..

in my personal experience....

Albion · Mar 25, 2013

peebly63 said:
the non denoms.. have a statement of faith which will tell you what they believe so you know what you are getting in to

SOME do. But many have such a skimpy or vague one that it tells the inquirer almost nothing. That isn't a problem with denominational churches because there is a wealth of information about every denomination.

i believe in the denominational ones especially the ones right on the fringes and some would argue are not even Christian such as the JW'S AND LDS force their members to believe some pretty outlandish and often non scriptural doctrines..

No more or less than some non-denoms. The difference is that you know they are JWs up front and can find out everything about the JWs.

the non denoms don't seem as member must kind of churches, the teaching still may come through but it does not seem as regimented that you must believe it or else..
in my personal experience....

Once again, it IS your personal experience, but we cannot discuss this comparison of denominational churches with non-denominational churches by picking out a couple of each from among the tens of thousands of both kinds that are out there.

If I were to find one of each and then compare them, I could make either side look good, but it's what the OVERALL comparison looks like that matters.

peebly63 · Mar 25, 2013

Albion said:
SOME do. But many have such a skimpy or vague one that it tells the inquirer almost nothing. That isn't a problem with denominational churches because there is a wealth of information about every denomination.

No more or less than some non-denoms. The difference is that you know they are JWs up front and can find out everything about the JWs.

Once again, it IS your personal experience, but we cannot discuss this comparison of denominational churches with non-denominational churches by picking out a couple of each from among the tens of thousands of both kinds that are out there.

If I were to find one of each and then compare them, I could make either side look good, but it's what the OVERALL comparison looks like that matters.

I hear what you are saying but in the case of the JW'S and LDS their real doctrines don't emerge until later they are careful how they word things to keep them vague and to catch the casual observer, often their most damning information such as older writings, quotes, claims are hidden away from prying eyes...

overall, as i can only speak from limited experience having not visited every denomination possible, if you stick to your bible, the entire bible, study for yourself, check everything that is taught were ever you go against the word you will be ok but I still maintain that denominations especially the ones above have hidden agendas that are often very dangerous and non sriptural...

Albion · Mar 25, 2013

peebly63 said:
I hear what you are saying but in the case of the JW'S and LDS their real doctrines don't emerge until later they are careful how they word things to keep them vague and to catch the casual observer, often their most damning information such as older writings, quotes, claims are hidden away from prying eyes...

Even so, because they are known denominations the information on them is easily obtained. Anyone like yourself can go to the library or internet and find out everything about them. By comparison, some cult-like non-denom down the street with a name like "New Life Tabernacle" offers....what? No one can know what they are all about, and being a self-professed "non-denominational" church allows them to fly under the radar with claims of not being "like those denominational churches."

Albion · Mar 25, 2013

peebly63 · Mar 25, 2013

Albion said:
Even so, because they are known denominations the information on them is easily obtained. Anyone like yourself can go to the library or internet and find out everything about them. By comparison, some cult-like non-denom down the street with a name like "New Life Tabernacle" offers....what? No one can know what they are all about, and being a self-professed "non-denominational" church allows them to fly under the radar with claims of not being "like those denominational churches."

lol... the cult like denominations do not parade their information quite so easily...

Albion · Mar 25, 2013

peebly63 said:
lol... the cult like denominations do not parade their information quite so easily...

I wasn't saying that the church would advertise itself as a cult, just that it might actually function as one. I know of a few in my area that certainly meet that description.

That's another weakness in non-denoms--no supervision. Any guy with a degree from some fly-by-night Bible college can set himself up as a pastor teaching whatever he wants and there's no restraint. Meanwhile, when you read Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod or Reformed Church in America, for example, you are getting something with a track record, known beliefs, regular clergy, AND a system of organization that promotes responsibility at the local level. If you, as an inquirer, don't care for the Lutheran or Reformed beliefs but prefer to be a Baptist, you can find one of them instead. But with a non-demon it's strictly a pig in a poke situation. Sometimes it works out all right--as you said it has for you--but it's completely chance.

peebly63 · Mar 25, 2013

Albion said:
I wasn't saying that the church would advertise itself as a cult, just that it might actually function as one. I know of a few in my area that certainly meet that description.

That's another weakness in non-denoms--no supervision. Any guy with a degree from some fly-by-night Bible college can set himself up as a pastor teaching whatever he wants and there's no restraint. Meanwhile, when you read Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod or Reformed Church in America, for example, you are getting something with a track record, known beliefs, regular clergy, AND a system of organization that promotes responsibility at the local level. If you, as an inquirer, don't care for the Lutheran or Reformed beliefs but prefer to be a Baptist, you can find one of them instead. But with a non-demon it's strictly a pig in a poke situation. Sometimes it works out all right--as you said it has for you--but it's completely chance.

You also run the chance of being taught added doctrine and if you don't have the savvy to check your bible and see it for yourself you are in danger, especially when the JW'S and LDS are very good at sounding very reasonable...

Albion · Mar 25, 2013

peebly63 said:
You also run the chance of being taught added doctrine

Not as compared to a non-demon. We've already covered that and there is no evidence to suggest that non-denoms are better at this than denoms, just that their own false doctrines are not evident in advance.

if you don't have the savvy to check your bible and see it for yourself you are in danger, especially when the JW'S and LDS are very good at sounding very reasonable...

If you have that savvy, you don't need to fall back on a non-denom, do you? You can easily chart your way through the list of denoms and choose wisely.

peebly63 · Mar 25, 2013

Albion said:
Not as compared to a non-demon. We've already covered that and there is no evidence to suggest that non-denoms are better at this than denoms, just that their own false doctrines are not evident in advance.

If you have that savvy, you don't need to fall back on a non-denom, do you? You can easily chart your way through the list of denoms and choose wisely.

denoms are more likely to teach you unwanted or unnecessary information as their denom will demand it taught, so to me it is more on purpose than by misunderstanding which is quite a big issue in it's self...

as I said earlier denoms hide their doctrinal add ons...

Albion · Mar 25, 2013

peebly63 said:
denoms are more likely to teach you unwanted or unnecessary information as their denom will demand it taught

The only way I can agree to that is if we acknowledge that one of the characteristics of the typical non-denominational church is doctrinal vagueness. However, I certainly do not consider that to be a positive.

as I said earlier denoms hide their doctrinal add ons...

Then, on that matter, you are just wrong.

singlecandle · Mar 28, 2013

I grew up non-denom, about twenty years and haven't actually been to a non-denom church that didn't have a doctrine of its own. I have actually found some problems with non-denom churches' beliefs.
So, they're not infallible just because they may presume to interpret the Bible ex cathedra. It seems that they have just become a denomination of their own.
I was once VERY against denominations but now I see that confessions and creeds are essential because if you don't have them anybody can come in say their reading the Bible and introduce wild stuff. It seems that there aren't any boundaries on the
non-denominational churches or a real authority. Not good.

shturt678 · Mar 28, 2013

singlecandle said:
I grew up non-denom, about twenty years and haven't actually been to a non-denom church that didn't have a doctrine of its own. I have actually found some problems with non-denom churches' beliefs.
So, they're not infallible just because they may presume to interpret the Bible ex cathedra. It seems that they have just become a denomination of their own.
I was once VERY against denominations but now I see that confessions and creeds are essential because if you don't have them anybody can come in say their reading the Bible and introduce wild stuff. It seems that there aren't any boundaries on the
non-denominational churches or a real authority. Not good.

Find any discrepancies with my yardstick, the Lutheran Creed? Thank you.

now faith · Mar 29, 2013

singlecandle said:
I grew up non-denom, about twenty years and haven't actually been to a non-denom church that didn't have a doctrine of its own. I have actually found some problems with non-denom churches' beliefs.
So, they're not infallible just because they may presume to interpret the Bible ex cathedra. It seems that they have just become a denomination of their own.
I was once VERY against denominations but now I see that confessions and creeds are essential because if you don't have them anybody can come in say their reading the Bible and introduce wild stuff. It seems that there aren't any boundaries on the
non-denominational churches or a real authority. Not good.

Why would we need mans authority?
The Word is the only one that counts.

If some one is teaching contrary to the Word then it is evident.
Do we need a council to tell us what the Word says,or will we go back in time before Luther?

Christ is the head of the only Church that matters.
Non denomination,or denomination are both fine,as long as we are not lethargic in our own study.

Churches promote their own brand of social club,like people and cars.
People get downright nasty,about Ford,Dodge and Chevy.
You could say,Baptist,Methodist and Lutheran,and to be real interesting nondenominational.

My point is to know what is being taught,by holding it accountable to the Bible, and read it for yourself.

now faith · Mar 29, 2013

Albion said:
The only way I can agree to that is if we acknowledge that one of the characteristics of the typical non-denominational church is doctrinal vagueness. However, I certainly do not consider that to be a positive.

Then, on that matter, you are just wrong.

What about missionaries?

Some denominations,hold back your money for their purposes and delegate a portion of what you give to whom you intended it for.

This is not from a local level, but through denominational councils on mission's.

Albion · Mar 29, 2013

now faith said:
What about missionaries?

Some denominations,hold back your money for their purposes and delegate a portion of what you give to whom you intended it for.

This is not from a local level, but through denominational councils on mission's.

You're going to have to elaborate for me. Is it that you consider this a positive thing for denominations but which non-denoms are not equipped to engage in?

shturt678 · Mar 29, 2013

now faith said:
Why would we need mans authority?
The Word is the only one that counts.

My point is to know what is being taught,by holding it accountable to the Bible, and read it for yourself.

I agree with you ... even the modern Lutheran churches fall under this category, but have just two questions: "accountable to which Bible" and and after determining which, "accountable to which Bible interpretation"??

singlecandle · Mar 29, 2013

shturt678 said:
Find any discrepancies with my yardstick, the Lutheran Creed? Thank you.

I have actually been visiting LCMS churches and agree with them on a lot of things especially the way they treat the Lord's Supper...something that has been downplayed in, not all, but many modern churches.
The only thing I disagree with the LCMS on is that they believe grace can
be resisted-not sure if they apply that to soteriology or just the Christian life...but...this subject is probably something for another forum

Which Is Better...Non-Denominational Or Denominational??......

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