Which denomination....

[CelticRebel]

Sorry, didn't mean to try to pull you into an argument. If you'd like to discuss NT polity we can do that. But I don't want to pull you into it. If not, we will just have to disagree. What I see in the New Testament either fits Episcopal or Presbyterian models. I don't see congregationalism at all.

And I didn't when I was a Baptist either just to be clear. That is just one of the reasons I'm no longer a Baptist.

You didn't pull me into an argument. We need not discuss NT polity. Let's just agree to disagree.

 

[circuitrider]

Sounds good to me CelticRebel.

By the way, does your name imply an interest in Celtic spirituality?

 

[CelticRebel]

Sounds good to me CelticRebel.

By the way, does your name imply an interest in Celtic spirituality?

Yes, and my ancestors were also Irish. So, I have a two-fold interest.

Might I ask you, why did you leave the Baptists and become United Methodist?

 

[CelticRebel]

As an aside, I prefer an equal apportionment among the local churches. I think it is more fair than each local church voting what it wants to pay. In most Baptist denomination a church of equal size that gives $200 gets the same votes as a church that gives $2,000 or $2,000,000. That hardly seems fair to me.

So, you would base votes on the dollar amount a church gives? That doesn't seem right.

 

[CelticRebel]

No, we do not allow infant dedications. I'm not aware that it was ever officially allowed. But now it is specifically forbidden.

Yes, each local church is part of an annual conference. The members of the annual conference (clergy and laity) vote on an annual budget which is apportioned by a formula that evenly divides the support of the conference budget between all the local churches.

The property is held in trust by the local trustees for the UMC but becomes the property of the Annual Conference should the church ever cease to exist or cease to be United Methodist.

The purpose of the "trust clause" for the property is actually more of a protection for the local church. It prevents a group of non-methodists from joining the church and then trying to run off with the property. (This has happened to some Baptist churches.)

As I understood it, the old EUB church allowed it before the merger. And I know of UMC churches that did it. So, you say it is now forbidden. Who has the authority to forbid it? Also, that seems rather strict and harsh to me.

 

[circuitrider]

Yes, and my ancestors were also Irish. So, I have a two-fold interest.

Might I ask you, why did you leave the Baptists and become United Methodist?

It was a long process. It began in my experiences in the Walk to Emmaus Community, a retreat program of the Upper Room of the UMC. There I came in contact with John Wesley and also with UMC sacramental theology.

I spent a lot of years reading Wesley and became a convinced believer in his understanding of Grace. I also became a member of the Order of Saint Luke, which is related to the UMC, in my sacramental study.

Finally I became convinced that congregational polity is so flawed that largely creates little local clubs where a few powerful lay people control the church and relegate pastors to the role of hireling.

Once I became convinced that I no longer supported congregational polity since my own theology had already become Wesleyan it made sense to me to see to become a UMC pastor.

 

[circuitrider]

So, you would base votes on the dollar amount a church gives? That doesn't seem right.

Not entirely. But I wouldn't think that a church that only gives a few dollars to the denomination by choice, not because they don't have the money, shouldn't get the same vote in how that money is spent as a church that is fully supporting the work of the denomination.

It is like someone in the local church who doesn't give to the church trying to tell the rest of us how to spend the budget. For giving to really be fair each local church ought to give a similar percentage of their income to support the larger church just like we encourage church members all to tithe to the church.