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Which Day of the Week is the Sabbath?

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oldsage

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karenmarie said:
I don't know if its been brought up yet or not. Jesus IS the SABBATH. Jesus is the 8th day!! We REST in HIM now! I think everyone knows the Sabbath in the OT was on Saturday. NOBODY changed the Sabbath to Sunday. We worship our LORD on Sunday as a group. We worship our LORD everyday for that matter. We are in the NEW COVENANT, not the OLD. JESUS IS OUR SABBATH REST, we no longer need to REST on the 7th day..hes the 8th day!

I don't see in the bible where Jesus is a day, that makes no sense. I can see where Jesus is God or I can see where Jesus is a man, but I can't see where the bible calls Him a day. Now the "we worship everyday" quote is exactly what Jews did of His day, they worshipped every day, did you know there were sacrifices everyday in the Temple? and the Temple had people there worshipping all the time? I actually think the Jews of that time are more devout that most, not all, but most Christians today who say they worship God every day.

Can you show what is different from the "old covenant" to the "new covenant"? I read the prophecy about the "new covenant" in Jeremiah and looked at the same reference in the NT. The only think I see that seems to have changed from our perspective is the law went from stone to our heart.
If you see anything different I would like to see it, thanks.

Chris
 
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BrightCandle

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karenmarie said:
really? wonder why the jews circumcised their babies on the 8th day after birth? wonder why there were 8 people on the ark? wonder why David was the 8th son of Jesse? is this all COINCIDENCE?

heres some scripture for ya..

Leviticus 23:39:
Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when you have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the Lord seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.


Numbers 29:35:
On the eighth day you shall have a solemn assembly: you shall do no laborious work, but you shall offer a burnt offering, an offering by fire, a pleasant odor to God.

In the Bible, the Hebrews celebrated a Feast called the Feast of Tabernacles, or Feast of the Ingathering (sukkot), which lasted seven days. The Eighth Day Assembly is the "additional day" added to the end of the Feast of Tabernacles

In the New Testament, Jesus Christ resurrected from the dead on the Eighth Day (Matthew 28:1). He came 'when the fullness of time was come...made under the law' (Galatians 4:4). The fullness of time under the law according to God's time clock is seven days (days 1 - 7), seven meaning 'completion.' Jesus Resurrected on day 8!!!

The 8th day is a "hidden day". Not having place within the boundaries of the earthly seven days, it is not something you see, but rather something you experience. And in Christ, it can be experienced daily, not just on Saturday or Sunday.

The Apostle Paul spoke of the Eighth Day sabbath in Hebrews chapters 3 & 4.

Hebrews 4: 4-9:
For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place AGAIN, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: AGAIN, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, Today, after so long a time; as it is said, Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of ANOTHER DAY. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

The rest spoken of above is NOT referring to the seventh day sabbath, it is referring to the Eighth Day sabbath of Christ. It is His Day, His enclosure, His peace, His rest, His unity. And the way you enter in is by Faith. Faith in the Grace, Reconciliation, and Love of Christ

We are talking about the Sabbath not circumscion, Noah's Ark, etc., etc., don't confuse the topic in discussion with topics that are unrelated. Hebrews 4: 9 as translated in the NASB and ESV (the most literal of the English speaking translations, put it this way: "So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God." Note, it uses a capital "S" for Sabbath, indicating the 7th day Sabbath as written in the Ten Commandments.
 
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moicherie

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The Roman Catholic church changed the official Sabbath from what we know as Saturday to Sunday and its well documented that they did so. Hence Chrisitanity having Sunday as The Sabbath occured well after the apostles were all dead there is not a New Testament mandate that the 'Jewish' sabbath which the apostles observed stopped being The Sabbath of Genesis and Exodus 20.
BTW our whole life shoudl be one of worship every day but if we want to argue which day did the Lord sanctify and bless its the seventh day of the week what we call Saturday if we changed the name to Bill Clinton day or 'can be bothered to get up' day it will still be The Sabbath.
 
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RedTulipMom

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moicherie said:
The Roman Catholic church changed the official Sabbath from what we know as Saturday to Sunday and its well documented that they did so. Hence Chrisitanity having Sunday as The Sabbath occured well after the apostles were all dead there is not a New Testament mandate that the 'Jewish' sabbath which the apostles observed stopped being The Sabbath of Genesis and Exodus 20.
BTW our whole life shoudl be one of worship every day but if we want to argue which day did the Lord sanctify and bless its the seventh day of the week what we call Saturday if we changed the name to Bill Clinton day or 'can be bothered to get up' day it will still be The Sabbath.

the Roman Catholic church doesnt think sunday is the Sabbath day. They are well aware that Saturday is the 7th day of the week. What your sayin above is innacurate. The Church doesnt teach us that we must observe Sunday as the Sabbath. I think i already clarified everything about the 8th day above. Jesus is the Sabbath and we rest in him and worship every day of the week.
 
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BrightCandle

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karenmarie said:
the Roman Catholic church doesnt think sunday is the Sabbath day. They are well aware that Saturday is the 7th day of the week. What your sayin above is innacurate. The Church doesnt teach us that we must observe Sunday as the Sabbath. I think i already clarified everything about the 8th day above. Jesus is the Sabbath and we rest in him and worship every day of the week.

Jesus is God, and He created the Sabbath. Man cannot create a Sabbath. This is a divine thing. Our responsibility is to obey God with a loving heart, and not make up our own laws. The Godhead is the lawgiver, when we sinfull human beings start making up our own then we get into trouble, that is what Eve, she did her own thing, and look where it has got us!

Why not just keep the Ten Commandments as they are written and discard all of the fanciful reasons to do otherwise?
 
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tall73

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Montalban said:
I don't. So not answering my question with a straw-man doesn't make any sense. But then what am I to expect?
]

Of course you don't. Which is why it would be similar for me to say it. You also know that we don't wear vestments. So your question was just more sarcasm. You still did not answer the greek linguistic evidence in Ignatius. Nor did you find anyway to explain why there were 400 years of near universal Sabbath keeping, and more than one endorsement of it if Jesus replaced it.

Where does it say this? Why were these commandments not for all time?

HEB 9:6 When everything had been arranged like this, the priests entered regularly into the outer room to carry on their ministry. 7 But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. 8 The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still standing. 9 This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. 10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings--external regulations applying until the time of the new order.


HEB 10:11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. 13 Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, 14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

The sacrifices etc. were made no longer necessary by the true sacrifice. However, the Sabbath, coming before sin, and not a sacrifice, was not done away with.
The Apostolic constitutions were not written by the Apostles. So citing it continually as 'evidence' is rather silly.

Is it? Did you even realize that you cited it yourself in that cut and paste job from staycatholic.com? It is in fact evidence. It is evidence of an endorsement of the Sabbath in the 4th century AD, including reference to creation and the commandment. And it totally refutes your view that the Sabbath was replaced rfrom the beginning.
 
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Polycarp1

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You know, I haven't waded through all 970 posts in this thread, but let me contribute something that may shed some light on this. We're all English speakers, speaking of whether "Saturday" or "Sunday" is "the Sabbath."

In Spanish, the distinction and the significance are very clear.

Saturday is Sabado, derived from "Sabbath." And Sunday is Domingo, "the Lord's Day." The early Christians gathered on "the Lord's Day," the first day of the week, to celebrate His Resurrection on a weekly basis. "Every Sunday is a little Easter."
 
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tall73

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pjw said:
that is taking the verse completely out of context. what they are stating is that Gentiles have become Christians, are they bound to keep the ceremonial law? of course not. however, to avoid offending the Jewish Christians, and Gentile proselytes who have become Christians, who hear the law of Moses in the synagogue every Sabbath, we will command them to keep such and such laws.

I tend to agree with you here. I don't think he was saying they would receive more instruction later. They were trying to make things acceptable to those Christians of a Jewish background who were followers of Moses. They did this by requiring the gentile Christians to keep the laws that foreigners were supposed to while among the Israelites.
 
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tall73

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Montalban said:
that's slightly dishonest assessment of the 'facts'. Which ones say that it must be obeyed? That was the challenge of the site I gave. Which you simply try an oblique defelction with.

You don't get the site's point that the NT repeats certain things, and if the Sabbath were such a big deal, then it too would have been repeated.

Your analogy fails by another failure to grasp the central points of that post.

Why would they commend us to pray if everyone was doing it?


You, or I should say the site, set up a false issue. If the command was already in effect, and no change was made then it is still in effect. If Jesus kept it and reformed it, if even Paul kept it, going to a place of prayer even when there was not synagogue in town, and if in fact it was kept by almost all Christians into the 5th century, then there is no reason to conclude it was done away with because it is not mentioned in certain contexts.
 
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tall73

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Montalban said:
Why is there none to keep Saturday? In fact Jesus is accused of breaking it, and uses the illustration of David breaking it too!


Already looked at the accusations against Jesus' Sabbath keeping. If Jesus broke any of God's laws then He could not be a sacrifice for anyone. Yet you want to try to make Jesus a law-breaker to defend your theory. Everyone holds that the Sabbath was a requirement before the resurrection, so you might want to reconsider your view on this.

Jesus also states that David and the priests were in fact innocent in their actions. In fact Jesus makes a point of saying that the leaders had a misconception of the law, saying God desired mercy, not sacrifice. It was their set of traditions that He set aside, not the Sabbath command.

You keep insisting that Jesus' statement that the Sabbath was made for man is violating the Sabbath. But that does not follow at all. Jesus was not breaking the Sabbath, He was going back to its original meaning. The Sabbath was MADE (past tense) for man. It was always meant to be a blessing, not a legalistic curse.

Jesus not only kept the Sabbath, but like the adultery and murder commands He reformed them.
 
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tall73

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karenmarie said:
I don't know if its been brought up yet or not. Jesus IS the SABBATH. Jesus is the 8th day!! We REST in HIM now! I think everyone knows the Sabbath in the OT was on Saturday. NOBODY changed the Sabbath to Sunday. We worship our LORD on Sunday as a group. We worship our LORD everyday for that matter. We are in the NEW COVENANT, not the OLD. JESUS IS OUR SABBATH REST, we no longer need to REST on the 7th day..hes the 8th day!

Please post the new covenant and how it backs up your conclusion. We have looked at the new covenant more than once here, and far from doing away with the law it says that the law is written on the heart. Those who wish to say that the new covenant means that Sunday is the new day must show that from the new covenant.
 
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tall73

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karenmarie said:
really? wonder why the jews circumcised their babies on the 8th day after birth? wonder why there were 8 people on the ark? wonder why David was the 8th son of Jesse? is this all COINCIDENCE?

heres some scripture for ya..

Leviticus 23:39:
Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when you have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the Lord seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.


Numbers 29:35:
On the eighth day you shall have a solemn assembly: you shall do no laborious work, but you shall offer a burnt offering, an offering by fire, a pleasant odor to God.

In the Bible, the Hebrews celebrated a Feast called the Feast of Tabernacles, or Feast of the Ingathering (sukkot), which lasted seven days. The Eighth Day Assembly is the "additional day" added to the end of the Feast of Tabernacles

In the New Testament, Jesus Christ resurrected from the dead on the Eighth Day (Matthew 28:1). He came 'when the fullness of time was come...made under the law' (Galatians 4:4). The fullness of time under the law according to God's time clock is seven days (days 1 - 7), seven meaning 'completion.' Jesus Resurrected on day 8!!!

The 8th day is a "hidden day". Not having place within the boundaries of the earthly seven days, it is not something you see, but rather something you experience. And in Christ, it can be experienced daily, not just on Saturday or Sunday.

The Apostle Paul spoke of the Eighth Day sabbath in Hebrews chapters 3 & 4.

Hebrews 4: 4-9:
For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place AGAIN, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: AGAIN, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, Today, after so long a time; as it is said, Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of ANOTHER DAY. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

The rest spoken of above is NOT referring to the seventh day sabbath, it is referring to the Eighth Day sabbath of Christ. It is His Day, His enclosure, His peace, His rest, His unity. And the way you enter in is by Faith. Faith in the Grace, Reconciliation, and Love of Christ



In fact Hebrews4 has been dealt with for pages in this thread. The day spoken of is today, and the rest is that of salvation. Quite true. However, this was never talking about the weekly rest at all, and it certainly said nothing about an eighth day. In fact there is no verse that says that the eighth day is a new Sabbath, or that the world ended at Jesus' death.

Moreover, if there are texts where Sabbath is kept, that shows that it is in force, regardless of what is said about it. But you want us to believe that the day was changed because of a mystical eighth day that was never mentioned...until the ECF of course. And we have already looked at evidencde that the church after the apostles endorsed the Sabbath and kept it, and at some point celebrated the resurrection on Sunday as well. If Sunday had replaced the Sabbath they would not in fact be keeping both.
 
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Normann

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BrightCandle said:
Where in the Bible does it say that the Sabbath is the 8th day? Nowhere...............

.

Leviticus 23:39
Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the Lord seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath


You're welcome!
 
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tall73

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Rut said:
As I promised I have read much these 3 day I have day off.In my brain have it begin to be some question if that is true that Adam had Sabbath day.I can`t see it in the Bibel I shall explain;)

It is fairly clear that Adam was aware of it as it was after his creation that God rested, and then blessed and sanctified the day. However, like the rest of the law it was probably not written in stone etc. until later when man had lost sight of God's commands.

When Israel was in Egypt thye couldn`t have had Sabbath.

true, nor is it clear whether they even remembered it after 400 years in a land of idolatry, which brings out the need of God to restate the law and make it quite clear in stone.


When Moses came to Pharaoh and asked for 3 day off to sacrifice to God Then Pharaoh was complained that Moses came and interfering.How much more so ifthe Israelites had tried to rest one day out of seven (Ex 5:1 - 5) If Israel already had observing the sabbath it could not have servedas a reminder of theirs deliverance from Egypt by God as shown in Deuteronomy 5:15 The fact that some of them went out and pick mannaon the seventh day show in spite of direct instuction to the contrary indicate that sabbath observance was something new.That there was uncertainty in handling the case of the recorded sabbath breaker after the law had been given at Sinai also show I thinkthat sabbath had only recently been instituted (Num 15:32 - 36)

yes, it undoubtedly was new to them. But this does not change anything about Adam knowing of the Sabbath from the beginning. Most of the nations at this time knew of none of the law. God revealed Himself to Abraham to begin the process of bringing about a people who would glorify His name. After this people was in bondage for 400 years it was necessary for God to give them all of His instructions anew. Moreover, a theocracy was not a reality before so the penalty would be unclear under that kind of regime.

That is what I found that I begin to think little

In regard to the slaves who came out of Egypt I think you are right on. But it doesn't tell us much about Adam and what he knew. Romans 1 tells us that though man knew God he turned away from Him to idols and depravity. So it is no wonder that they no longer knew God's commands.
 
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tall73

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Normann said:
.



Leviticus 23:39
Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the Lord seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath


You're welcome!




So are you now planning on keeping the feast of tabernacles in honor of this text you found? If not then you better keep looking for a text that replaces the Sabbath.
 
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Normann

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Cliff2 said:
You have missed my point about the 7th day Sabbath.

The 7th day Sabbath was what the Jews kept in the time of Christ. No where in the NT is there a text to say that it has been changed. Christ and the Apostles did not need to say to keep it as it was the day everyone kept.

...........It was exactly the same with the Sabbath back then. It was not an issue, they all kept it.

As I have said it is mentioned over 70 times in the NT and not once is there any indication to say that the Sabbath has been changed.


Cliff you missed it all together. No where in the N.T. does it say Saturday is the Sabbath, yet you want me to take your word for it that it was.

There is no Bibical proff that the Sabbath was the same day always. Please get you mind off the calendar and on the Bible.

I will repeat- the command to keep the Sabbath is not in the New Testament at all.

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann
 
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tall73

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karenmarie said:
the Roman Catholic church doesnt think sunday is the Sabbath day. They are well aware that Saturday is the 7th day of the week. What your sayin above is innacurate. The Church doesnt teach us that we must observe Sunday as the Sabbath. I think i already clarified everything about the 8th day above. Jesus is the Sabbath and we rest in him and worship every day of the week.

Sorry, we cannot accept what you said here as I already quoted from pope John Paul II's papal letter that said that Sunday took on the meaning of Sabbath and that the 4th commandment is in fact still moral law.

Please check your church's stand on this issue. You can find his letter Dies Domini on the Vatican Site. Or you could read the whole thread and find the selections.
 
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Cliff2

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Normann said:
Cliff you missed it all together. No where in the N.T. does it say Saturday is the Sabbath, yet you want me to take your word for it that it was.

There is no Bibical proff that the Sabbath was the same day always. Please get you mind off the calendar and on the Bible.

I will repeat- the command to keep the Sabbath is not in the New Testament at all.

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

Can you show me a command to keep the 1st day of the week which is Sunday in the New Testament?

Can you show me a command where it says that we should now keep the 1st day of the week instead of the 7th day of the week and if there is one when did it come into force?
 
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tall73

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Montalban said:
BrightCandle said:
Why is there none to keep Saturday? In fact Jesus is accused of breaking it, and uses the illustration of David breaking it too!

While I already made the Scriptural point, I thought I would add that you are in disagreement with Irenaeus on this point:

Irenaeus Against Heresies Book 4, chapter 8

For the Lord vindicated Abraham's posterity by loosing them from
bondage and calling them to salvation, as He did in the case of the woman
whom He healed, saying openly to those who had not faith like Abraham,
"Ye hypocrites, doth not each one of you on the Sabbath-days loose his ox
or his ass, and lead him away to watering? And ought not this woman,
being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound these eighteen
years, be loosed from this bond on the Sabbath-days?" It is clear therefore,
that He loosed and vivified those who believe in Him as Abraham did,
doing nothing contrary to the law when He healed upon the Sabbath-day.
For the law did not prohibit men from being healed upon the Sabbaths; [on
the contrary,] it even circumcised them upon that day, and gave command
that the offices should be performed by the priests for the people; yea, it
did not disallow the healing even of dumb animals. Both at Siloam and on
frequent subsequent occasions, did He perform cures upon the Sabbath;
and for this reason many used to resort to Him on the Sabbath-days. For
the law commanded them to abstain from every servile work, that is, from
all grasping after wealth which is procured by trading and by other worldly
business; but it exhorted them to attend to the exercises of the soul, which
consist in reflection, and to addresses of a beneficial kind for their
neighbors' benefit. And therefore the Lord reproved those who unjustly
blamed Him for having healed upon the Sabbath-days. For He did not
make void, but fulfilled the law, by performing the offices of the high
priest, propitiating God for men, and cleansing the lepers, healing the sick,
and Himself suffering death, that exiled man might go forth from
condemnation, and might return without fear to his own inheritance.
3. And again, the law did not forbid those who were hungry on the
Sabbath-days to take food lying ready at hand: it did, however, forbid
them to reap and to gather into the barn. And therefore did the Lord say to
those who were blaming His disciples because they plucked and ate the
ears of corn, rubbing them in their hands, "Have ye not read this, what
David did, when himself was an hungered; how he went into the house of
937
God, and ate the shew-bread, and gave to those who were with him; which
it is not lawful to eat, but for the priests alone?" justifying His disciples
by the words of the law, and pointing out that it was lawful for the priests
to act freely. For David had been appointed a priest by God, although Saul
persecuted him. For all the righteous possess the sacerdotal rank. And all
the apostles of the Lord are priests, who do inherit here neither lands nor
houses, but serve God and the altar continually. Of whom Moses also
says in Deuteronomy, when blessing Levi, "Who said unto his father and
to his mother, I have not known thee; neither did he acknowledge his
brethren, and he disinherited his own sons: he kept Thy commandments,
and observed Thy covenant." But who are they that have left father and
mother, and have said adieu to all their neighbors, on account of the word
of God and His covenant, unless the disciples of the Lord? Of whom again
Moses says, "They shall have no inheritance, for the Lord Himself is their
inheritance." And again, "The priests the Levites shall have no part in the
whole tribe of Levi, nor substance with Israel; their substance is the
offerings (fructifications) of the Lord: these shall they eat." Wherefore also
Paul says, "I do not seek after a gift, but I seek after fruit." To His
disciples He said, who had a priesthood of the Lord, to whom it was
lawful when hungry to eat the ears of corn, "For the workman is worthy
of his meat." And the priests in the temple profaned the Sabbath, and were
blameless. Wherefore, then, were they blameless? Because when in the
temple they were not engaged in secular affairs, but in the service of the
Lord, fulfilling the law, but not going beyond it, as that man did, who of
his own accord carried dry wood into the camp of God, and was justly
stoned to death. "For every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit shall be
hewn down, and cast into the fire;" and "whosoever shall defile the temple
of God, him shall God defile."
 
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