Which Day of the Week is the Sabbath?

[Montalban]

THE NINE "MORAL" COMMANDS OF THE 10 COMMANDMENTS ARE REITERATED in the New Testament:

1). To worship the Lord God only (1st commandment): no less than 50 times
2). Idolatry (2nd commandment): condemned 12 times
3). Profanity (3rd commandment): condemned 4 times
4). Honoring parents (5th commandment) is taught 6 times
5). Murder (6th commandment) condemned 6 times
6). Adultery (7th commandment) condemned 12 times
7). Theft (8th commandment) condemned 4 times
8). False Witness (9th commandment) condemned 4 times
9). Covetousness (10th commandment) condemned 9 times
* see references here *


Why is it that the duty to keep the Seventh day as Sabbath is not mentioned ONCE in the New Testament?

WHEN THE NEW TESTAMENT LISTS SINS, SABBATH BREAKING IS CONSPICUOUSLY ABSENT:

In Mark 7:21-22 13 sins are listed. Jesus did not mention breaking the Sabbath.
In Romans 1:29-32 20 sins are listed and not one of them is Sabbath breaking.
In Galatians 5:19-21 a list of 15 sins are given,
In 2 Timothy 3:1-4 there's a list of 18 sins, but not once is Sabbath breaking mentioned!
http://www.sdaoutreach.org/sabbath.cfm

 

[Montalban]

What does a Seventh Day Adventist service look like?

Anything like this...?
Exodus 35
4 And Moses spake unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, saying, This is the thing which the LORD commanded, saying,

5 Take ye from among you an offering unto the LORD: whosoever is of a willing heart, let him bring it, an offering of the LORD; gold, and silver, and brass,

6 And blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' hair,

7 And rams' skins dyed red, and badgers' skins, and [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]tim wood,

8 And oil for the light, and spices for anointing oil, and for the sweet incense,

9 And onyx stones, and stones to be set for the ephod, and for the breastplate.

10 And every wise hearted among you shall come, and make all that the LORD hath commanded;

11 The tabernacle, his tent, and his covering, his taches, and his boards, his bars, his pillars, and his sockets,

12 The ark, and the staves thereof, with the mercy seat, and the vail of the covering,

13 The table, and his staves, and all his vessels, and the shewbread,

14 The candlestick also for the light, and his furniture, and his lamps, with the oil for the light,

15 And the incense altar, and his staves, and the anointing oil, and the sweet incense, and the hanging for the door at the entering in of the tabernacle,

16 The altar of burnt offering, with his brasen grate, his staves, and all his vessels, the laver and his foot,

17 The hangings of the court, his pillars, and their sockets, and the hanging for the door of the court,

18 The pins of the tabernacle, and the pins of the court, and their cords,

19 The cloths of service, to do service in the holy place, the holy garments for Aaron the priest, and the garments of his sons, to minister in the priest's office.

20 And all the congregation of the children of Israel departed from the presence of Moses.

21 And they came, every one whose heart stirred him up, and every one whom his spirit made willing, and they brought the LORD's offering to the work of the tabernacle of the congregation, and for all his service, and for the holy garments.

22 And they came, both men and women, as many as were willing hearted, and brought bracelets, and earrings, and rings, and tablets, all jewels of gold: and every man that offered offered an offering of gold unto the LORD.

23 And every man, with whom was found blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' hair, and red skins of rams, and badgers' skins, brought them.

24 Every one that did offer an offering of silver and brass brought the LORD's offering: and every man, with whom was found [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]tim wood for any work of the service, brought it.

25 And all the women that were wise hearted did spin with their hands, and brought that which they had spun, both of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine linen.

26 And all the women whose heart stirred them up in wisdom spun goats' hair.

27 And the rulers brought onyx stones, and stones to be set, for the ephod, and for the breastplate;

28 And spice, and oil for the light, and for the anointing oil, and for the sweet incense.

29 The children of Israel brought a willing offering unto the LORD, every man and woman, whose heart made them willing to bring for all manner of work, which the LORD had commanded to be made by the hand of Moses.

30 And Moses said unto the children of Israel, See, the LORD hath called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah;

31 And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship;

32 And to devise curious works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass,

33 And in the cutting of stones, to set them, and in carving of wood, to make any manner of cunning work.

34 And he hath put in his heart that he may teach, both he, and Aholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan.

35 Them hath he filled with wisdom of heart, to work all manner of work, of the engraver, and of the cunning workman, and of the embroiderer, in blue, and in purple, in scarlet, and in fine linen, and of the weaver, even of them that do any work, and of those that devise cunning work.

I'd like to visit an SDA Synagogue to see such wonderous vestments and adornments!

 

[oldsage]

Does your priest wear the vestments as stated in the OT?

Again you are not understanding the difference in not having a Temple and having one. The priest of the Temple service is in the Temple, not outside it. As I stated eariler, The priesthood is suspended until such time as there is a Temple again.

We follow the laws that we can follow given our circumstances, if there isn't a theocracy we can't hand down civil punishment, no Temple, no sacrifices nor and work for the priest. No farm, nothing to do with agriculture, I am not a lady, so those laws don't apply to me either, I am not a king, so those laws don't apply. But the principles do apply in all times and places. So, please don't ask anymore questions in regard to Temple worship since there isn't one.

Chris

 

[oldsage]

Which day of the weeks is the Sabbath? Well, all the Lord wants us to do is to set aside a day for reflection and worship, much the same as he stated in Genesis when he rested on the 7th Day. It depends upon what you set aside, as long as you have a day.

Hello, christianmarine,

It would be nice to say such a thing to make it easy for people to do their own thing. But we need scripture to show such a teaching is correct. This thread has addressed many issues some at great length. The bible shows that the Sabbath was a particular day following a 7 day cycle which God put in motion, it shows everyone keeping the same day and not some keeping this day or another day, they were unified. God at creation blessed the seventh day of creation and made it holy, but God didn't make everyday holy, just one. When we reach to Exodus we see in Chap 16 that God shows them which day the Sabbath is. Later God gives the Law to the people and talks about the Sabbath and tells them its origin, He tells them to remember it and keep it holy, He tells us it is a sign of His authority. Later on in Exodus God gets ready to hand the tablets over to Moses and of all the laws He set down He reiterates one out of them all, and that is the Sabbath.

Throughout biblical history we see that he Hebrews disobeyed God's Sabbath many times and bad things kept happening to them because of it. During the intertestamental period the Hebrews made several cumbersome laws pertaining to the Sabbath to make sure they do not profane it again. When Jesus came on the scene He showed how to keep the Sabbath, and gave its original purpose and intent. Knocking down the laws that the Hebrews imposed on top of it.

Later in the biblical record of the 1st century church we see a few times where the disciples met on different days of the week, we see the first day (Sunday) mentioned a few times, we see they met daily with one another in several places, and we see Sabbath meetings also several times.

What we don't see in the biblical account is where a command it made to change the Sabbath or to nullify it. We don't see in the bible a teaching to show we are not to keep the Sabbath, or that it can be any day of the week but the one prescribed by God. Now we are speaking about the physical day of the Sabbath and the day of rest that God handed down to His people. We are not talking about the rest we have in Jesus, which is called by another word. All who come to Jesus enter into that rest. The question from a biblical perspective is, can man if he be an Apostle or not have the authority to change a commandment of God? If there was to be such a change wouldn't our Lord Jesus be the perfect one to say what the change is? That way there would be no question whatsoever about the authority to change it. Can we find in the Holy Writ where it says an Apostle changed the day of the Sabbath? I don't think we can.

Now the thread has moved away from the Bible, away from the words of Jesus and away from the authority of the Apostles to how the post-Apostolic church viewed this issue and we see differing ideas the further we go from the Apostolic era. We see documentation showing that the Sabbath was kept, just not as Jews kept it which was rather cumbersome, and we see Sunday being kept along with it. While the dating is up on the air on some documents from what I see the Epistle of Barnabas is where the major change in the Sabbath/Sunday controversy is made, which I believe is about 135 A.D. Some appeal to the Didache but I place that document after Barnabas because it draws from Barnabas. Granted there is some debate on this subject of dating, but from my study this makes the best sense. Now I am not completely sure on this but I think the idea of the Sabbath can just be one day in seven didn't come about until Martin Luther, in which in his debate with a Catholic priest said, it didn't matter which day as long as you keep one. But I will have to go back and research that one, for I am just recalling all this from memory right now.

Now in todays thought, we don't dwell much on God's law, we move further into individualism, we are losing our foundations of the church by ignoring tradition, or putting too much emphasis on it, we are spiritualizing the bible away and becoming the gods of our universe. We all want to do God's will, we just need to learn what that will is.

blessings
Chris

 

[oldsage]

Some years on the Jewish calendar had 13 months. Each year after 49 days came the feast of Pentecost which would set the weekly Sabbath up by one day. After 3 1/2 years Israel would have had the weekly Sabbath on each one of the week days.

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

Normann, I don't think you are reading my post, as stated early the calendar has nothing to do with the seven day cycle, the calendar is irrelevant.

Here is the cycle:

1,2,3,4,5,6,Sabbath,1,2,3,4,5,6,Sabbath,1,2,3,4,5,6,Sabbath

Now, show me how that can be affected by the calendar? I can take out or add months days years, extend the number of days in a week to 10,20, or 50, or shorten the week to only 2 days, but the last day of ever seven day cycle is the Sabbath...While the feast can fluctuate the weekly Sabbath is always the same. As I have said in earlier threads here is a ten day week and how Sabbath relates to it:

1,2,3,4,5,6,Sabbath,8,9,10,1,2,3,Sabbath,5,6,7,8,9,10,Sabbath,2,3,4,5,6,7,Sabbath
or a three day week cycle:

1,2,3,1,2,3,Sabbath,2,3,1,2,3,1,Sabbath,3,1,2,3,1,2,Sabbath,1...

Ever seventh day is the Sabbath, and the calendar has nothing to do with it.

Chris

 

[oldsage]

WHEN THE COUNSEL OF ACTS 15 CONVENED to determine what Gentile Christians must observe, SABBATH KEEPING IS CONSPICUOUSLY ABSENT. Peter exhorts the leadership of the Church not to place the Gentiles under the Law:

Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are." Acts 15:10-11.

The final judgment of the Jerusalem Council contains no reference to Sabbath keeping. Circumcision was discussed and deemed unnecessary (vss. 5-6; 19-20). If Sabbath keeping were to be an essential part of the New Covenant relationship with God it would have been mentioned in the discussion because it would have been an unfamiliar practice to the Gentiles. Sabbath keeping was not even discussed because it is not a requirement for New Covenant believers:

"For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials; that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell." (Acts 15:28-29).

NOTICE that the Holy Spirit told them NOT to lay upon the Gentiles any greater burden than THOSE ESSENTIALS. OBVIOUSLY THE HOLY SPIRIT DID NOT THINK SABBATH KEEPING WAS AN ESSENTIAL THING ANYMORE!
http://www.sdaoutreach.org/sabbath.cfm

The quotes seem to be jumping around tho from that site from what I see you posting from it. This is what I see in the text:
Acts 15:19 "Therefore I conclude that we should not cause extra difficulty for those among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we should write them a letter telling them to abstain from things defiled by idols and from sexual immorality and from what has been strangled and from blood. 21 For Moses has had those who proclaim him in every town from ancient times, because he is read aloud in the synagogues every Sabbath." 22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to send men chosen from among them, Judas called Barsabbas and Silas, leaders among the brothers, to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. It seems to me the Sabbath is mentioned and James said these things are what is the biggest problems with the Gentiles and sent them letters concerning that, but says that Moses is read in the synagogues every Sabbath, is indicating they will receive more instruction over the course of time while listening to the Scriptures being read to them ever Sabbath. I see no other reason why to mention the Scriptures being read on the Sabbath.

Chris

 

[tall73]

I do, but I have to stop laughing before I respond.

Quite a dignified approach.

He noted that there's a different "Lord's Day"

Now, here is the very point where you can't explain your position at all. He mentions BOTH. Can you explain why they were maintaining both even into the 5th century? The majority were keeping it. I keep repeating because you won't even try to make sense of the data. I have explained many times how the presence of Sunday worship came in over time to replace Sabbath observance. So your references are in fact proof of my view, not a refutation of it. But you make no attempt to explain how Sabbath observance was so pervasive if Jesus replaced it. Then you just say I am repeating myself. Sure, I am now repeating myself because you continue to make insults and make no explanation for the data. Very well, I will assume you have no explanation.

I used the same site (translation) you did.

And that is completely dishonest. First of all I said the GREEK text, which I pointed you to. You totally ignored it. Then I discussed at length the translation issues with the English version, as well as the contextual problems. Your solution to this is ignore it and then say I repeat myself. Now, again, show me in the Greek where it says Lord's Day. You will never find it. Even in their altered Greek version which they changed because of the Latin you have to imply the word for day. And in the actual Greek manuscript the word is not only absent but the word LIFE is in its place. If you can't or won't address that, fine. But then if you continue to make the same argument about "Lord's day" then it is you that is repeating yourself, despite all the evidence.

So you're unsure again whether you wish to cite him as a source

No, I have always, and still do, maintain him as a witness. But I don't skip parts of what he said. He advocated both. He is an important witness to a step in the transition.

That site doesn't mention "Ignatius"

Of course not, because I posted it to deal with the date of the Didache. And that it does deal with.

What I am ignoring from now on is your
You have still yet to decide whether you want to cite Ingatius, or debunk him for being too late

Nope, I have consistently placed him at the only historical time he could be. He was bishop during the reign of the particular ruler which was from 98 to 116. And he is in fact a witness to the fact that they were keeping both days. I have been consistent in this from the beginning.

And it's easily explained by not!

What you have not explained is why they would be keeping a replaced day for 400 years. And they not only kept it, they endorsed it. If you can't explain that part of the data then your whole theory (that Sunday replaced Sabbath in apostolic times) is in fact flawed.

Perhaps you need to quit quoting Catholic defense sites and actually address the real issues. Their simplistic answer ignores the contradictions in tradition itself. In fact it has to, because in their view tradition cannot conflict with itself or Scripture. They have painted themselves into a theological corner which demands that they ignore evidence.

 

[tall73]

THE NINE "MORAL" COMMANDS OF THE 10 COMMANDMENTS ARE REITERATED in the New Testament:

1). To worship the Lord God only (1st commandment): no less than 50 times
2). Idolatry (2nd commandment): condemned 12 times
3). Profanity (3rd commandment): condemned 4 times
4). Honoring parents (5th commandment) is taught 6 times
5). Murder (6th commandment) condemned 6 times
6). Adultery (7th commandment) condemned 12 times
7). Theft (8th commandment) condemned 4 times
8). False Witness (9th commandment) condemned 4 times
9). Covetousness (10th commandment) condemned 9 times
* see references here *


Why is it that the duty to keep the Seventh day as Sabbath is not mentioned ONCE in the New Testament?

WHEN THE NEW TESTAMENT LISTS SINS, SABBATH BREAKING IS CONSPICUOUSLY ABSENT:

In Mark 7:21-22 13 sins are listed. Jesus did not mention breaking the Sabbath.
In Romans 1:29-32 20 sins are listed and not one of them is Sabbath breaking.
In Galatians 5:19-21 a list of 15 sins are given,
In 2 Timothy 3:1-4 there's a list of 18 sins, but not once is Sabbath breaking mentioned!
http://www.sdaoutreach.org/sabbath.cfm

The problem is that Jesus mentions the Sabbath, kept the Sabbath and reformed the Sabbath from tradition. So it is mentioned, just as He reformed adultery to be lust, murder to be hate etc. Moreover Jesus said that He did not come to destroy the law.

And if we are going to discuss evidence from silence, which is what you are suggesting, why was the Sabbath Question not addressed in Acts 15? Why did Paul not clarify that he didn't mean the Sabbath when he commended the law as good and holy in Romans 7? It is clearly the 10 commandment law because he there mentions coveting.

Evidence from silence is just that, silence. But you ignore Jesus' endorsement of both the law and His reform and keeping of the Sabbath.

Of course you also ignore the evidence of your own tradition that the majority kept the Sabbath 400 years after Jesus, and even commended it directly at in the 4th century.

 

[tall73]

See post #917
http://www.christianforums.com/t2317314-which-day-of-the-week-is-the-sabbath.html&page=92

Ignatius says we're not Jews! Keeping in line with...

I just replied to post 917 in depth. In fact that is what you were quoting when you made this comment. What you continue to willfully ignore is that Ignatius, after saying he rejects Jewish practices, goes on to endorse Sabbath keeping, without the excessive rituals put on it by Jewish tradition. Congratulations, you just affirmed that Ignatius did not regard the Sabbath as Jewish, and to be ignored.

WHEN THE COUNSEL OF ACTS 15 CONVENED to determine what Gentile Christians must observe, SABBATH KEEPING IS CONSPICUOUSLY ABSENT. Peter exhorts the leadership of the Church not to place the Gentiles under the Law:

Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are." Acts 15:10-11.

The final judgment of the Jerusalem Council contains no reference to Sabbath keeping. Circumcision was discussed and deemed unnecessary (vss. 5-6; 19-20). If Sabbath keeping were to be an essential part of the New Covenant relationship with God it would have been mentioned in the discussion because it would have been an unfamiliar practice to the Gentiles. Sabbath keeping was not even discussed because it is not a requirement for New Covenant believers:

"For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials; that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell." (Acts 15:28-29).

NOTICE that the Holy Spirit told them NOT to lay upon the Gentiles any greater burden than THOSE ESSENTIALS. OBVIOUSLY THE HOLY SPIRIT DID NOT THINK SABBATH KEEPING WAS AN ESSENTIAL THING ANYMORE!
http://www.sdaoutreach.org/sabbath.cfm

And here we see the problem with quoting whole sections of web sites when you don't even understand their theology, or critique their view. They just said that the other 9 commandments are valid. But now they make the argument that ANYTHING NOT LISTED IN ACTS 15 is not required. So which is it? Are the other 9 not required? They are not listed. Obviously you are missing the whole point of this list. It was a compromise based on JEWISH understanding. The requirements they gave them were based on those in the OT that were required of non-Jewish foreigners. Moreover, the Sabbath was binding on the stranger in their gates, so it would also be required. But like the other 9 it didn't have to be mentioned, because they all knew that the commandments which Jesus said He would not destroy, and which Paul said were holy and righteous and good were not on the table here.

By the way Tall73, what kind of vestments does your rabbi wear?

That would be a bit akin to me asking why you include Mary in the Trinity. You know quite well that we don't have priests or vestments. What you won't look at is why. Unlike OldSage, who is not SDA, and who everyone keeps lumping in with us, we believe the sacrificial system was done away with by the perfect sacrifice of Christ. So no temple or sacrifices or vestments are needed.

But what you have not shown is how the Sabbath which came before sin is in any way fulfilled by sacrifices. Nor apparently did the apostolic constitutions show this, because they pointed to the commandment and endorsed Sabbath keeping in honor of the creation.

 

[Normann]

Which day of the weeks is the Sabbath? Well, all the Lord wants us to do is to set aside a day for reflection and worship, much the same as he stated in Genesis when he rested on the 7th Day. It depends upon what you set aside, as long as you have a day.

Yes, this is correct. The Sabbath is not about a day, it is about man and rest.
Mark 2:27
And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

 

[Normann]

THE NINE "MORAL" COMMANDS OF THE 10 COMMANDMENTS ARE REITERATED in the New Testament:

1). To worship the Lord God only (1st commandment): no less than 50 times
2). Idolatry (2nd commandment): condemned 12 times
3). Profanity (3rd commandment): condemned 4 times
4). Honoring parents (5th commandment) is taught 6 times
5). Murder (6th commandment) condemned 6 times
6). Adultery (7th commandment) condemned 12 times
7). Theft (8th commandment) condemned 4 times
8). False Witness (9th commandment) condemned 4 times
9). Covetousness (10th commandment) condemned 9 times
* see references here *


Why is it that the duty to keep the Seventh day as Sabbath is not mentioned ONCE in the New Testament?

WHEN THE NEW TESTAMENT LISTS SINS, SABBATH BREAKING IS CONSPICUOUSLY ABSENT:

In Mark 7:21-22 13 sins are listed. Jesus did not mention breaking the Sabbath.
In Romans 1:29-32 20 sins are listed and not one of them is Sabbath breaking.
In Galatians 5:19-21 a list of 15 sins are given,
In 2 Timothy 3:1-4 there's a list of 18 sins, but not once is Sabbath breaking mentioned!
http://www.sdaoutreach.org/sabbath.cfm[/QUOTE]

Very good question but the SDA won't answer it, they will twist some other passage to make their false doctrine seem true.


Normann

 

[lmnop9876]

It seems to me the Sabbath is mentioned and James said these things are what is the biggest problems with the Gentiles and sent them letters concerning that, but says that Moses is read in the synagogues every Sabbath, is indicating they will receive more instruction over the course of time while listening to the Scriptures being read to them ever Sabbath. I see no other reason why to mention the Scriptures being read on the Sabbath.

that is taking the verse completely out of context. what they are stating is that Gentiles have become Christians, are they bound to keep the ceremonial law? of course not. however, to avoid offending the Jewish Christians, and Gentile proselytes who have become Christians, who hear the law of Moses in the synagogue every Sabbath, we will command them to keep such and such laws.

 

[Cliff2]

THE NINE "MORAL" COMMANDS OF THE 10 COMMANDMENTS ARE REITERATED in the New Testament:

1). To worship the Lord God only (1st commandment): no less than 50 times
2). Idolatry (2nd commandment): condemned 12 times
3). Profanity (3rd commandment): condemned 4 times
4). Honoring parents (5th commandment) is taught 6 times
5). Murder (6th commandment) condemned 6 times
6). Adultery (7th commandment) condemned 12 times
7). Theft (8th commandment) condemned 4 times
8). False Witness (9th commandment) condemned 4 times
9). Covetousness (10th commandment) condemned 9 times
* see references here *


Why is it that the duty to keep the Seventh day as Sabbath is not mentioned ONCE in the New Testament?

WHEN THE NEW TESTAMENT LISTS SINS, SABBATH BREAKING IS CONSPICUOUSLY ABSENT:

In Mark 7:21-22 13 sins are listed. Jesus did not mention breaking the Sabbath.
In Romans 1:29-32 20 sins are listed and not one of them is Sabbath breaking.
In Galatians 5:19-21 a list of 15 sins are given,
In 2 Timothy 3:1-4 there's a list of 18 sins, but not once is Sabbath breaking mentioned!
http://www.sdaoutreach.org/sabbath.cfm

Very good question but the SDA won't answer it, they will twist some other passage to make their false doctrine seem true.


Normann

Just from memory I think the Sabbath is mentioned about 70 times in the New Testament. On a previous post I have given the link to all the texts on the Sabbath in the NT.

When you look at each one there is at no time a reference to the sabbath as being changed or done away with.

Out here in Australia we drive on the left hand side of the road. When one is driving along the road there are no signs that says that one must not drive on the right hand side of the road.

Do you get my point.

Why would the Apostles write that Sabbath keeing was a must when everyone was doing it.

But if we look we can see that it is mentioned as I said about 70 times.

Then look at the "first day of the week" texts.

There are only 8 of them in the NT. Look at each one and see if it would want to make a Jew change from keeping the 7th day of the week to the 1st day of the week.

I doubt if any of them would make a Jew change days.

In fact it did not make them change as we see today that the orthodox Jews still keep the 7th day of the week.

The onus is actually on you and others here to show where in the Bible that there has been a change.

I am yet to see a text that tells me that there is a change.

 

[Montalban]

Just from memory I think the Sabbath is mentioned about 70 times in the New Testament. On a previous post I have given the link to all the texts on the Sabbath in the NT.

that's slightly dishonest assessment of the 'facts'. Which ones say that it must be obeyed? That was the challenge of the site I gave. Which you simply try an oblique defelction with.

When you look at each one there is at no time a reference to the sabbath as being changed or done away with.

Out here in Australia we drive on the left hand side of the road. When one is driving along the road there are no signs that says that one must not drive on the right hand side of the road.

Do you get my point.

You don't get the site's point that the NT repeats certain things, and if the Sabbath were such a big deal, then it too would have been repeated.

Your analogy fails by another failure to grasp the central points of that post.

Why would the Apostles write that Sabbath keeing was a must when everyone was doing it.

Why would they commend us to pray if everyone was doing it?

 

[Montalban]

IThat would be a bit akin to me asking why you include Mary in the Trinity.

I don't. So not answering my question with a straw-man doesn't make any sense. But then what am I to expect?

You know quite well that we don't have priests or vestments. What you won't look at is why. Unlike OldSage, who is not SDA, and who everyone keeps lumping in with us, we believe the sacrificial system was done away with by the perfect sacrifice of Christ. So no temple or sacrifices or vestments are needed.

Where does it say this? Why were these commandments not for all time?

But what you have not shown is how the Sabbath which came before sin is in any way fulfilled by sacrifices. Nor apparently did the apostolic constitutions show this, because they pointed to the commandment and endorsed Sabbath keeping in honor of the creation.

The Apostolic constitutions were not written by the Apostles. So citing it continually as 'evidence' is rather silly.

 

[Montalban]

Very good question but the SDA won't answer it, they will twist some other passage to make their false doctrine seem true.


Normann

We've seen one go to 'the Sabbath is mentioned 'x' times' (It's a statistical argument akin to Catholics claiming one of the evidences for Peter's supremacy is the total number of times he's mentioned). So without any thought to the context the Sabbath is mentioned 'x' times.

By a giant leap of logic then one must conclude something based on the number of mentions! Maybe Peter really is the first Pope! I'll expect to see SDA's flocking to communion next Sunday

The other is that although laws were given only to Moses, such as the dealings of the priesthood, and the Sabbath, they seem to wish to discard priestly laws.

 

[oldsage]

Why is it that the duty to keep the Seventh day as Sabbath is not mentioned ONCE in the New Testament?


Normann

Normann, making a font larger and repeating someone elses post doesn't make it true. You should go back and try and answer some of the questions posed to you, this will improve your chances of winning people over to your side.

Chris

 

[oldsage]

that is taking the verse completely out of context. what they are stating is that Gentiles have become Christians, are they bound to keep the ceremonial law? of course not. however, to avoid offending the Jewish Christians, and Gentile proselytes who have become Christians, who hear the law of Moses in the synagogue every Sabbath, we will command them to keep such and such laws.

Ok, then why use the word "For" there? I know it may seem silly to ask that, but I want to know what you get out of that word there in the text.

Chris

 

[BrightCandle]

We've seen one go to 'the Sabbath is mentioned 'x' times' (It's a statistical argument akin to Catholics claiming one of the evidences for Peter's supremacy is the total number of times he's mentioned). So without any thought to the context the Sabbath is mentioned 'x' times.

By a giant leap of logic then one must conclude something based on the number of mentions! Maybe Peter really is the first Pope! I'll expect to see SDA's flocking to communion next Sunday

The other is that although laws were given only to Moses, such as the dealings of the priesthood, and the Sabbath, they seem to wish to discard priestly laws.

The significance of how few references there are to Sunday worship in the NT, is that proponents of Sunday worship try to convince people that the disciples and the apostles were worshipping on Sunday ever since the resurrection of Jesus. But, what do we see in the NT? Just the opposite! The disciples kept the Sabbath while Jesus rested in the tomb on the Sabbath, and they continued to keep it well into the first century. If there was a change it came gradually, not based on any command from God, but based on "the traditions of men".

 

[BrightCandle]

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Very good question but the SDA won't answer it, they will twist some other passage to make their false doctrine seem true.

Normann

Here is the real question: Why is there no command from Jesus or the Apostles to keep Sunday in the NT?

The reason that the Sabbath was not mentioned in some of the summaries of the commandments in the NT, is that it was non-issue. No one kept Sunday as a Sabbath early early in the first century. Yes, there was a celebration of the resurrection on Sunday that did develop later on, but it was not based on a commandment of Jesus or the Apostles. And it did not fully displace the Sabbath until many centuries later. In fact the Eastern Church kept the Sabbath up till the 5th century, but gave it up under pressure from western Roman church.