Which Day of the Week is the Sabbath?

[oldsage]

Silly? Being you brought in the word silly I take my liberty in using the same word. Is it not silly to base your salvation on a calendar that was designed in the middle 1500's by a reilgious organization. And that organization has many things it teaches that I know for sure you disagree with!

Normann, first off the calendar has nothing to do with the Sabbath, nothing at all, you seem to think it does, if there were no calendars in existence, the Sabbath is still ever seven days from the time God said..this is the Sabbath.

Who said anything about basing salvation on anything but the grace of God? Are you bringing up working to heaven? because the bible is clear that you get in not on your own merit.

Is it not silly to claim you keep the orginial Sabbath, when no one on earth can prove without a doubt which day it really was?

what doubt, I believe with 100% certainty that the Sabbath falls from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown. I don't know anyone in history that would disagree with it. Because we can trace it all the way back to Jesus' time. Or we can ask a Jew that has been keeping that day for the last 4000 some odd years.

Is it not silly to ignore the history of the calendar and give it prefrence over the scriptures?

Since you have not read the thread about the topic of the calendar I will just say this..again, the calendar has nothing to do with the Sabbath. I am very well aware of the calendars and the changes in them...but it is still meaningless because the calendar has nothing to do with the Sabbath.

And as for history itself, is it not silly to put your faith in history instead of scripture?

Normann, you believe in what I call solo scriptura which means that you believe the scripture alone is the sole authority and nothing else can be used to help understand it, and that my friend is a very dangerous teaching because you are saying that you of all the christians in the world or who have ever lived are better able to understand the meaning of the scriptures. You would disregard what has been handed down over the years as meaningless.

History tells us about this struggle, history tells us about the topics we are now talking about, history tells us the direction the church has gone, history tells us how the church viewed things over the course of time. History shows us when error entered the church. History teaches us many things, like when certain churches began, and why...This historic view of the church has always been to use history to guide us, some like the Catholic churches, both the Greeks and the Latins use history a little different that the reformers, but both has seen the value of history in shaping how beliefs, the Catholics have Tradition and Scripture as equals but the Reformers have Scripture as the final, not only, authority and Tradition to help guide understanding in the scriptures.

Those of you with a teachable spirit beware of false teachers.

Normann, this forum is set up for the purpose of sharing information, this thread has a few different views on this subject and they are being shared and tested here...This is where we hash out if what we believe is true or not, we take from here what one another says and go back and learn and see if our position is strong or weak, and we determine which view makes the best sense of the evidence and neither of us may change our minds, but at least we are aware of the agruments for each case. You seem to be going against the purpose of this forum and want to suppress what people say to take away free speech, not to share information. I would ask for you to share information and move away from doing things like saying beware of false prophets...make a case and prove your point like the rest of us are doing. If you have an opposing view, I am sure that everyone would like to see it.

God bless you and be of good courage.

Chris

 

[oldsage]

Seemingly the doctrine of the SDA is to throw away your Bible and live by the calendar.

Umm, not all us Sabbatarians are SDA...I can throw away my calendar and just use my bible and still keep sabbath, thank you.

Chris

 

[Montalban]

What laws do think governed Adam and those who lived until the time of Moses?

Were they allowed to steal, murder etc?

Adam was told that all was free for him except to eat of the tree.

Why do you think God gave the law against murder if it was already known, anyway?

 

[Normann]

SDA is Bible based. The Bible directly states that the Sabbath is the 7th Day of the week.

Not one place in scripture does it say... "the Sabbath is the 7th day"

Not one place in scripture does it say... "Saturday is the 7th day"

Exodus 20:9-10
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: [10] But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

It is clear in this passage that the Sabbath is only to be kept after you work 6 days.

No calendar is mentioned, just work.

SDA ignores the scripture and keeps the Calendar.

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

 

[oldsage]

Not one place in scripture does it say... "the Sabbath is the 7th day"

Not one place in scripture does it say... "Saturday is the 7th day"

Exodus 20:9-10
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: [10] But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

ok, you say that nowhere does it say in scripture that the Sabbath is the 7th day, but you post one that says "But the 7th day is the Sabbath" I am wondering how you come to your conclusions.

It is clear in this passage that the Sabbath is only to be kept after you work 6 days.

No calendar is mentioned, just work.

SDA ignores the scripture and keeps the Calendar.

I have already responded to this, you ignored it:
NET Exodus 20:9 For six days you may labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God; on it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, or your male servant, or your female servant, or your cattle, or your resident foreigner who is in your gates.
This brings out the meaning of the text better, all the passage is saying, you have six days in which to work in, but the Sabbath you are to rest and not to any work in. This is all it is saying. The Sabbath is for worship and rest in God, you have six days in which to do your work in.

Again, This isn't an SDA only thread, there are other Sabbatarians here.

Chris

 

[Rut]

I know I haven`t read all post so it`s correct that it say nothing in the Bible about wich day sabbath are.That have I thought all time.Main point is that you take a rest day and give that to God

 

[Rut]

Seemingly the doctrine of the SDA is to throw away your Bible and live by the calendar.

I`m not a SDA but still I wonder why you say this

 

[tall73]

Not one place in scripture does it say... "the Sabbath is the 7th day"....


Exodus 20:9-10
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: [10] But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

It is clear in this passage that the Sabbath is only to be kept after you work 6 days.

I know Oldsage already pointed this out, but doesn't it make you a little bit embarassed to say that it doesn't ever say the 7th is Sabbath and then quote it your self right after?

We already discussed that they did not assign names, but NUMBERS to the days of the week. So stating the 7th day is not the same as saying every 7 days. Now if you want to dispute translation, then show the evidence. That would be fair. What we now know as Friday sundown to Saturday sundown, is what they called the 7th day. They clearly knew what day was the first, second etc. If you don't it is because you are reading the Bible in mondern day terms, not the terms of the day. And that is not going by the Bible alone. It is going by Normann alone.

 

[Normann]

In order to keep the Sabbath on Saturday, one must work Sunday through Friday.

If you turn on a light on Saturday you have broken the Sabbath; you are working your servants at the power company.

Do you eat out on Saturday?
Do you use the phone?
Do you buy gas?

Normann

 

[Haggai]

In order to keep the Sabbath on Saturday, one must work Sunday through Friday.

If you turn on a light on Saturday you have broken the Sabbath; you are working your servants at the power company.

Do you eat out on Saturday?
Do you use the phone?
Do you buy gas?

Normann

When you turn on a light, you are not making anyone work. You are so ignorant of the way power company's work and how the Bible tells us to keep the Sabbath holy. so just do not make such outrageous statements like that.

Yes you eat on Sabbath, some people eat out at a restaurant, some do not for it is causing the waiters to work.

Yes you can use the phone..what a unthought out question. Please use logic and common sense.

Do you buy gas on the Sabbath? Buying is not working, so If you can use the pay quick at ARCO/AMPM and not make anyone work like the clerk, then it is not breaking the Sabbath.

You are taking everything out of context. You are ignorant of the importance and the way of keeping of the Sabbath and you use not common sense or logic. Do not make such erroneous posts like you did when you have no structure or backbone to it.

 

[Haggai]

I know Oldsage already pointed this out, but doesn't it make you a little bit embarassed to say that it doesn't ever say the 7th is Sabbath and then quote it your self right after?

We already discussed that they did not assign names, but NUMBERS to the days of the week. So stating the 7th day is not the same as saying every 7 days. Now if you want to dispute translation, then show the evidence. That would be fair. What we now know as Friday sundown to Saturday sundown, is what they called the 7th day. They clearly knew what day was the first, second etc. If you don't it is because you are reading the Bible in mondern day terms, not the terms of the day. And that is not going by the Bible alone. It is going by Normann alone.

Seventh-day Adventists keep the Sabbath from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset, Sabbath is not Saturday alone as we know it now. The 7-day weekly cycle has no changed from Bible times, only the way they calculated a day (from sunset to sunset, and now we calculate a day from 12 AM to 12 AM).
The only thing that changed is our year, the Jewish year consisted of an accurate 360 days, and now it is 364/365. But again, the weekly cycle has not changed, it has always been seven days in a week.

 

[BrightCandle]

Not one place in scripture does it say... "the Sabbath is the 7th day"

Not one place in scripture does it say... "Saturday is the 7th day"

Exodus 20:9-10
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: [10] But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

It is clear in this passage that the Sabbath is only to be kept after you work 6 days.

No calendar is mentioned, just work.

SDA ignores the scripture and keeps the Calendar.

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

To select any day to keep as Sabbath after you have say worked from Monday to Saturday, is to exalt your own time frame above God's! Jesus had a specific reason when He wrote with His own finger in stone, that the 7th day is Sabbath. It is a test to us, just like it was to the Israelites in their day. If you applied the same principle of exegisis that you use to compromise the 4th commandment to the other nine commandments you could then justify almost any kind of sin!

 

[Haggai]

To select any day to keep as Sabbath after you have say worked from Monday to Saturday, is to exalt your own time frame above God's! Jesus had a specific reason when He wrote with His own finger in stone, that the 7th day is Sabbath. It is a test to us, just like it was to the Israelites in their day. If you applied the same principle of exegisis that you use to compromise the 4th commandment to the other nine commandments you could then justify almost any kind of sin!

So true indeed! Praise God!

In Exodus 20:8-11 it says that the Seventh-day is the Sabbath, and that you should work the first six days, but the seventh-day is holy and you should do not work. The weekly cycle has not changed and the seventh-day may have had a different name besides Saturday back then or maybe they just called it the seventh-day, but today, the seventh-day is Saturday, or you can still just call it the seventh-day.

These websites have an abundance of Bible and historical truth substantiating the seventh-day Sabbath.

http://www.seventh-day.org/
http://www.sabbathtruth.com

 

[BrightCandle]

So true indeed! Praise God!

In Exodus 20:8-11 it says that the Seventh-day is the Sabbath, and that you should work the first six days, but the seventh-day is holy and you should do not work. The weekly cycle has not changed and the seventh-day may have had a different name besides Saturday back then or maybe they just called it the seventh-day, but today, the seventh-day is Saturday, or you can still just call it the seventh-day.

These websites have an abundance of Bible and historical truth substantiating the seventh-day Sabbath.

http://www.seventh-day.org/
http://www.sabbathtruth.com

It is great to see that members of the Salvation Army Church are keeping the 7th day Sabbath!

 

[Normann]

Col. 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

 

[Montalban]

Tall73 seems to want to go over the same things again and again and thus misses...

The Didache

But every Lord's day . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).

Ignatius of Antioch

[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e., Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]).

The Didascalia

The apostles further appointed; On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation [sacrifice of the Mass], because on the first day of the week [Sunday] our Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with the angels of heaven (Didascalia 2 [A.D. 225]).

Victorinus

The sixth day [Friday] is called parasceve, that is to say, the preparation of the kingdom. . . . On this day also, on account of the passion of the Lord Jesus Christ, we make either a station to God or a fast. On the seventh day he rested from all his works, and blessed it, and sanctified it. On the former day we are accustomed to fast rigorously, that on the Lord's Day we may go forth to our bread with giving of thanks. Let the parasceve become a rigorous fast, lest we should appear to observe any Sabbath with the Jews . . . which Sabbath he [Christ] in his body abolished (The Creation of the World [A.D. 300]).

Eusebius

They [the early saints of the Old Testament] did not care about circumcision of the body, neither do we [Christians]. They did not care about observing Sabbaths, nor do we. They did not avoid certain kinds of food, neither did they regard the other distinctions which Moses first delivered to their posterity to be observed as symbols; nor do Christians of the present day do such things (Church History 1:4:8 [A.D. 325]).

[T]he day of his [Christ's] light . . . was the day of his resurrection from the dead, which they say, as being the one and only truly holy day and the Lord's day, is better than any number of days as we ordinarily understand them, and better than the days set apart by the Mosaic Law for feasts, new moons, and Sabbaths, which the Apostle [Paul] teaches are the shadow of days and not days in reality (Proof of the Gospel 4:16:186 [A.D. 319]).

Athanasius

The Sabbath was the end of the first creation, the Lord's day was the beginning of the second, in which he renewed and restored the old in the same way as he prescribed that they should formerly observe the Sabbath as a memorial of the end of the first things, so we honor the Lord's day as being the memorial of the new creation (On Sabbath and Circumcision 3 [A.D. 345]).

Cyril of Jerusalem

Fall not away either into the sect of the Samaritans or into Judaism, for Jesus Christ has ransomed you. Stand aloof from all observance of Sabbaths and from calling indifferent meats common or unclean (Catechetical Lectures 4:37 [A.D. 350]).

Council of Laodicea

Christians should not Judaize and should not be idle on the Sabbath, but should work on that day; they should, however, particularly reverence the Lord's Day and, if possible, not work on it, because they were Christians (canon 29 [A.D. 360]).

John Chrysostom

When he said, "You shall not kill" . . . he did not add "because murder is a wicked thing." The reason was that conscience had taught this beforehand, and he speaks thus, as to those who know and understand the point. Wherefore when he speaks to us of another commandment, not known to us by the dictate of conscience, he not only prohibits, but adds the reason. When, for instance, he gave commandment concerning the Sabbath — "On the seventh day you shall do no work"— he subjoined also the reason for this cessation. What was this? "Because on the seventh day God rested from all his works which he had begun to make" [Ex. 20:10]. And again: "Because you were a servant in the land of Egypt" [Deut. 21:18]. For what purpose then, I ask, did he add a reason respecting the Sabbath, but did no such thing in regard to murder? Because this commandment was not one of the leading ones. It was not one of those which were accurately defined of our conscience, but a kind of partial and temporary one, and for this reason it was abolished afterward. But those which are necessary and uphold our life are the following: '"You shall not kill... You shall not commit adultery... You shall not steal." On this account he adds no reason in this case, nor enters into any instruction on the matter, but is content with the bare prohibition (Homilies on the Statues 12:9 [A.D. 387]).

You have put on Christ, you have become a member of the Lord and been enrolled in the heavenly city, and you still grovel in the Law [of Moses]? How is it possible for you to obtain the kingdom? Listen to Paul's words, that the observance of the Law overthrows the gospel, and learn, if you will, how this comes to pass, and tremble, and shun this pitfall. Why do you keep the Sabbath and fast with the Jews? (Homilies on Galatians 2:17 [A.D. 395]).

Apostolic Constitutions

And on the day of our Lord's resurrection, which is the Lord's Day, meet more diligently, sending praise to God that made the universe by Jesus, and sent him to us, and condescended to let him suffer, and raised him from the dead. Otherwise what apology will he make to God who does not assemble on that day . . . in which is performed the reading of the prophets, the preaching of the gospel, the oblation of the sacrifice, the gift of the holy food (Apostolic Constitutions 2:7:60 [A.D. 400]).

cited at
http://staycatholic.com/ecf_sabbath_or_sunday.htm

 

[Montalban]

Tall73 has forgotten that I went over several quotes with him already - but then again he asked me the same questions over and over again

What does St. Ignatius say?

Sunday is 'the Lord's Day'...
St. Ignatius' Epistle to the Magnesians

9:1 If then those who had walked in ancient practices attained unto newness of hope, no longer observing sabbaths but fashioning their lives after the Lord's day, on which our life also arose through Him and through His death which some men deny -- a mystery whereby we attained unto belief, and for this cause we endure patiently, that we may be found disciples of Jesus Christ our only teacher --
...
10:1 Therefore let us not be insensible to His goodness. For if He should imitate us according to our deeds, we are lost. For this cause, seeing that we are become His disciples, let us learn to live as beseemeth Christianity. For whoso is called by another name besides this, is not of God.
10:2 Therefore put away the vile leaven which hath waxed stale and sour, and betake yourselves to the new leaven, which is Jesus Christ. Be ye salted in Him, that none among you grow putrid, seeing that by your savour ye shall be proved.
10:3 It is monstrous to talk of Jesus Christ and to practise Judaism. For Christianity did not believe in Judaism, but Judaism in Christianity, wherein every tongue believed and was gathered together unto God.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/ignatius-magnesians-lightfoot.html

He thus says NOT to partake of the Jewish practices







The Epistle of Barnabas, written sometime after the year 80 says...

Barnabas 15:8
Finally He saith to them; Your new moons and your Sabbaths I cannot away with. Ye see what is His meaning ; it is not your present Sabbaths that are acceptable [unto Me], but the Sabbath which I have made, in the which, when I have set all things at rest, I will make the beginning of the eighth day which is the beginning of another world.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/barnabas-lightfoot.html



Justin Martyr's First Apology written sometime between 150-160

CHAPTER LXVII -- WEEKLY WORSHIP OF THE CHRISTIANS.



And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-firstapology.html



Justin Martyr's DIALOGUE WITH TRYPHO

Chapter X

"Is there any other matter, my friends, in which we are blamed, than this, that we live not after the law, and are not circumcised in the flesh as your forefathers were, and do not observe sabbaths as you do?

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html



Tertullian's An Answer to the Jews.

Chapter IV.-Of the Observance of the Sabbath.

It follows, accordingly, that, in so far as the abolition of carnal circumcision and of the old law is demonstrated as having been consummated at its specific times, so also the observance of the Sabbath is demonstrated to have been temporary.

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-03/anf03-19.htm#P2021_691723



Let's look again at his own 'sources'

The Apostolic Constitution was not written by the Apostles.

What does Sozemen say

"The people of Constantinople, and almost everywhere, assemble together on the Sabbath, as well as on the first day of the week, which custom is never observed at Rome or at Alexandria."

(as quoted by Tall73)





See also Acts 20:7; 1 Corinthians 16:2; cf. Revelation 1:10



Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord...

=> => Fifty [7 * 7 + 1] days after the Passover Sabbath, Pentecost was celebrated.
This would have been on the first day of the week (Sunday)!
http://www.ccs-hk.org/DM/sab-egwh.html

 

[oldsage]

Col. 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

And Normann, within the context I agree with the passage 100% not false assumptions in which you think it means...does the passage say not to keep Sabbath?

Normann, if you wish to contribute please provide an explanation of the passage you quote so people understand where you are going with it.

Chris

 

[Normann]

I do not post in this thread to try and change those of the SDA who have set their minds to a false doctrine.

I continue to post here for the sake of the innocent and those with a desire to learn.

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

 

[oldsage]

Normann,

As far as the teachable spirit I believe just about everyone who has contributed to this thread is teachable, just not gullible. We don't agree with what someone says just because they say it. So, again, if you post to the thread, please make it a worthwhile contribution and not take shots with emotional jibble but use arguments that make sense and show your point...one liners don't teach people. Address the issue and address those that respond to you and that will help facilitate the learning process.


Chris