Which Day of the Week is the Sabbath? (2)

Cliff2 · Dec 20, 2005

md6597 said:
I dont and cant keep the sabbath my work is constant... Unfortunately people with dissablilities like to eat on sunday and saturday. They also like to have there meds...

Welcome to my life...

Note: I wasn't saying you should do anything, or pointing out anyones faults myself. I am just saying it clearly points out when it is...

That being the case I doubt if anyone is going to condemn you for looking after them.

Cliff2 · Dec 20, 2005

Normann said:
Cliff, I don't keep the Sabbath for two reasons; one the command to keep the Sabbath is not in the N. T.

Two: I don't work, so therefore it is impossible to keep the sabbath unless I first work six days.

Exodus 20:9-10 Six days shalt thou labour...

Another note, I worship every day not just on Sunday. Please note that the commandment in the O.T. mentioned work and rest and nothing about worship services.

We have church services on Sun, Tue, Wed, Sat and sometimes Friday.

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

Why would there be a command in the NT to keep the Sabbath when everyone kept it and it was never an issue for them.

The issue is not if there is a command there but if there is a command to stop keeping the Sabbath.

That is not there.

Normann · Dec 21, 2005

md6597 said:
Look in the following Scriptures....

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Exo 23:12 Six days thou shalt do thy work, and on the seventh day thou shalt rest: that thine ox and thine ass may rest, and the son of thy handmaid, and the stranger, may be refreshed.

Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Exo 34:21 Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.

Exo 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

Not ONCE does it mention a particular days, just a number. From this I would say that if for some reason the callander was shifted to make Tuesday the first day of the week and Monday the last, so the order went like this: Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday...

Monday being the 7th of the week would be the Sabbath

Tuesday being the day after would be the day that Christians go to church

I say it matters not what you call each day or what there order are. The bible clearly states that whatever you hold to be the 7th day of your week is the Sabbath. It matters not where that was back then....

~MD~

This is a good post and I agree to the basic intent.

The scripture does not mention a particular day, just a number. Yet the SDA preaches SATURDAY and it seems to be their only doctrine. I've made this argument before, (not as well put) but it too was struck down by those with the calendar laying on top of the Bible.

Cliff, if you and the others knew the Bible as well as you know the calendar you would see this.

If you want to keep a sabbath; work any six days in a row and rest after that, no matter what day of the week it is.

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

Normann · Dec 21, 2005

woobadooba said:
The reason why the NT is silent on this issue is because it wasn't an issue. ..................
.......................

The Sabbath wasn't an issuein the N.T.?

I won't correct you but the Bible will...

Mat 12:1-2 ...Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. [2] But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

Mat 12:10 ...there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.

Mark 3:2
And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.

There's more...

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

rstrats · Dec 21, 2005

Normann,

You made the statement; "On October 5,1582 it suddenly became October 15, 1582; we lost ten days and the weekly sabbath is no longer the same seventh day!"

I would still like to know how that change had anything to do with affecting the continuity of the seven day cycle.

woobadooba · Dec 21, 2005

Normann said:
The Sabbath wasn't an issuein the N.T.?

I won't correct you but the Bible will...

Mat 12:1-2 ...Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. [2] But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

Mat 12:10 ...there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.

Mark 3:2
And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.

There's more...

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

Normann,

Next time ask a person what he means before jumping the gun, OK?

Now then, what I meant by saying that it wasn't an issue is that the people knew that it was to be kept, and they were keeping it. True, many did not understand the implications of keeping the Sabbath day Holy, and so that was an issue; but the practice of keeping the Sabbath day holy itself, wasn't an issue with the people.

md6597 · Dec 21, 2005

rstrats said:
Normann,

You made the statement; "On October 5,1582 it suddenly became October 15, 1582; we lost ten days and the weekly sabbath is no longer the same seventh day!"

I would still like to know how that change had anything to do with affecting the continuity of the seven day cycle.

When its said the sabbath is no longer the same seventh day, I think he means date... for instance the sabbath falling on numbers in multiples of seven. Also when the calander was moved, the day of the week did not change, it was the date that jumped 10 numbers to realine the callender.

This wasn't the first time it was done, just the last.

As far as days of the week changing, well thats hard to tell. There is no record of that ever happening, but whos to say...

The case I believe hes making is that one particular day of the week was never mentioned. It only says the 7th day.

For that matter the bible doesn't mention that its the seventh day of the week even.

In the following passages it never says week, only 6 days and on the 7th...

Take a look...

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Exo 23:12 Six days thou shalt do thy work, and on the seventh day thou shalt rest: that thine ox and thine ass may rest, and the son of thy handmaid, and the stranger, may be refreshed.

Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Exo 34:21 Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.

Exo 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

Think, back in biblical times the jewish calander was dicided by a councel of elders. It changed constantly, in fact the Jewish calender never had names for any of the days but the sabbath.

It was Roman's and later Christian's who took upon the task of naming the days of the week.

From the passages above, you could make a case that in fact that the sabbath is no particular day. It is the day of rest and worship following six days of labor.

Based upon a modern calander of Sunday through Saturday... If you work Wednesday through Monday (Six Days) and rest and worship on Tuesday (the seventh day)... I would say that from the passages above you could make a case that such a week is still honnoring the sabbath.

God never confined the sabbath to a week or a particular day in that week in his scripture.

If I am incorrect, please feel free to post the scripture I am overlooking...

Just my .02 cents

~MD~

BrightCandle · Dec 21, 2005

God never confined the sabbath to a week or a particular day in that week in his scripture.

If I am incorrect, please feel free to post the scripture I am overlooking...

Just my .02 cents

~MD~

See Exodus 20:10, where Jesus clearly stated that "but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. . . ".

7 is a perfect number in the Bible, the other days cannot be made to be perfect, or made to be a Sabbath day by mankind, because men cannot create a Sabbath, that is a God thing. Church councils and individuals can say all they want, but the truth remains, written in stone by Jesus' own finger, that only the 7th day is the Sabbath.

md6597 · Dec 21, 2005

Ok so the exact date was mentioned...

(Exodus 16:23)
And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

And it is every 7 days from this one, not in number, but in real time, that the sabbath was to be observed....

So I guess that it is more than just the number, God did in this verse specify a specific day...

~MD~

Cliff2 · Dec 21, 2005

BrightCandle said:
See Exodus 20:10, where Jesus clearly stated that "but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. . . ".

7 is a perfect number in the Bible, the other days cannot be made to be perfect, or made to be a Sabbath day by mankind, because men cannot create a Sabbath, that is a God thing. Church councils and individuals can say all they want, but the truth remains, written in stone by Jesus' own finger, that only the 7th day is the Sabbath.

It was God who made the 7th day holy.

Man cannot make a holy day unholy just by saying so.

Man has no right to do such a thing. Man did not create the day and therefore has no authority to anything with the day apart from keeping it holy as God said to.

rstrats · Dec 21, 2005

md6597,

re: "When its said the sabbath is no longer the same seventh day, I think he means date..."

If he does, its irrelevant to the argument that the seven day cycle continuity of the Sabbath has been interrupted.

md6597 · Dec 21, 2005

Yes, seeing as how there is no proof that the 7 day cycle has ever been changed or interupted, you would have to assume, its been the same since the time of Moses when the Law was handed down.

Note: I really enjoy these discussions, as they always lead to my learning something or excite me to investigate something I would have never looked into by myself.

~MD~

Normann · Dec 22, 2005

Cliff2 said:
Why would there be a command in the NT to keep the Sabbath when everyone kept it and it was never an issue for them.

The issue is not if there is a command there but if there is a command to stop keeping the Sabbath.

That is not there.

Where in the Bible does it say everyone kept the Sabbath in the N. T?

Cliff, you want scripture but won't give any for your side of the debate. You only assume they all kept the Sabbath. You only assume the Sabbath was always on Saturday. You only assume and expect us to believe you know what day is the Sabbath, without any direct scripture.

Telling me about the passages with the word sabbath in them is not a command to keep it.

The N. T. also tells how they would heal the sick and raise the dead.

Do you do that also, Cliff??????????????????????

Or do you just pick the only doctrine of the SDA and harp on it constantly?

Come on buddy give me something besides a man's idea.

Normann

Normann · Dec 22, 2005

md6597 said:
When its said the sabbath is no longer the same seventh day, I think he means date... for instance the sabbath falling on numbers in multiples of seven. Also when the calander was moved, the day of the week did not change, it was the date that jumped 10 numbers to realine the callender.

This wasn't the first time it was done, just the last.

As far as days of the week changing, well thats hard to tell. There is no record of that ever happening, but whos to say...

The case I believe hes making is that one particular day of the week was never mentioned. It only says the 7th day.

For that matter the bible doesn't mention that its the seventh day of the week even.

In the following passages it never says week, only 6 days and on the 7th...

Take a look...

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Exo 23:12 Six days thou shalt do thy work, and on the seventh day thou shalt rest: that thine ox and thine ass may rest, and the son of thy handmaid, and the stranger, may be refreshed.

Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Exo 34:21 Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.

Exo 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

Think, back in biblical times the jewish calander was dicided by a councel of elders. It changed constantly, in fact the Jewish calender never had names for any of the days but the sabbath.

It was Roman's and later Christian's who took upon the task of naming the days of the week.

From the passages above, you could make a case that in fact that the sabbath is no particular day. It is the day of rest and worship following six days of labor.

Based upon a modern calander of Sunday through Saturday... If you work Wednesday through Monday (Six Days) and rest and worship on Tuesday (the seventh day)... I would say that from the passages above you could make a case that such a week is still honnoring the sabbath.

God never confined the sabbath to a week or a particular day in that week in his scripture.

If I am incorrect, please feel free to post the scripture I am overlooking...

Just my .02 cents

~MD~

Your .02 cents is worth repeating...

Normann

Normann · Dec 22, 2005

md6597 said:
Yes, seeing as how there is no proof that the 7 day cycle has ever been changed or interupted, you would have to assume, its been the same since the time of Moses when the Law was handed down.

Note: I really enjoy these discussions, as they always lead to my learning something or excite me to investigate something I would have never looked into by myself.

~MD~

Now you went back the other way...

In the history of the Jews and Israel. The sabbath changed days at least twice a years because of the feasts.

At Pentecost there was a High sabbath and the the weekly sabbath. This would set the weekly sabbath up by one day, so that every day of the week has at one time or another been the sabbath.

The Sabbath was not a day but it was rest.

Hebrews 4:9
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

Being the N. T. does not command us to keep a sabbath we are in Hebrews promised a rest.

To keep the sabbath one has to work six day first.

Those that claim they keep the sabbath will eat out on (thier sabbath) and thereby work their servants. They will use elect, phone and even buy bargins on a day they are commanded not to work the servants.

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

rstrats · Dec 22, 2005

Normann,

re: "At Pentecost there was a High sabbath and the the weekly sabbath. This would set the weekly sabbath up by one day, so that every day of the week has at one time or another been the sabbath."

What documentation do you use for making that statement?

rstrats · Dec 22, 2005

Normann,

re: "The Sabbath was not a day..."

Exodus 20:8 would seem to say that it is: "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy."

strikerchris0411 · Dec 22, 2005

rstrats said:
Normann,

re: "The Sabbath was not a day..."

Exodus 20:8 would seem to say that it is: "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy."

Why not celebrate the day of rest saturday and Sunday : )

Cliff2 · Dec 22, 2005

Normann said:
Where in the Bible does it say everyone kept the Sabbath in the N. T?

Cliff, you want scripture but won't give any for your side of the debate. You only assume they all kept the Sabbath. You only assume the Sabbath was always on Saturday. You only assume and expect us to believe you know what day is the Sabbath, without any direct scripture.

Telling me about the passages with the word sabbath in them is not a command to keep it.

The N. T. also tells how they would heal the sick and raise the dead.

Do you do that also, Cliff??????????????????????

Or do you just pick the only doctrine of the SDA and harp on it constantly?

Come on buddy give me something besides a man's idea.

Normann

I gave you a link that gives 55 New Testament Sabbath texts and another for 8 first day of the week texts.

In all of them there is enough evidence to show that the Sabbath has never been changed and that the first day of the week is not the Sabbath.

I can give them to you again if necessary.

Normann · Dec 22, 2005

strikerchris0411 said:
Why not celebrate the day of rest saturday and Sunday : )

Just for fun; I celebrate seven days a week while I draw my retirement money.

Which Day of the Week is the Sabbath? (2)

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