Which creation do creationists want us to believe took place?

Nathan Poe · Dec 7, 2008

AV1611VET said:
Not hardly, Chalnoth --- try 1,950 years ago. In fact, the Christians were blamed for it, and Nero persecuted them [literally] to death --- not for Rome burning as some say --- but for the pole reversal - (which they wouldn't have understood at the time).

Too proud to admit when you've misread the Bible again, AV? Sad.

thaumaturgy · Dec 7, 2008

AV1611VET said:
According to the Bible, the last one took place in AD58.

So did God "clean" up the evidence for this as well???? (Or was there yet another flip that went completely unnoticed such that we wound up with the same polarity we had before 58AD and the 778,050 years before?)

National_Geographic said:
The last time Earth's magnetic field flipped was 780,000 years ago, according to the geologic record of Earth's polarity. (SOURCE)

juvenissun · Dec 7, 2008

BananaSlug said:
Isaiah 24:1 Behold, the Lord makes the earth empty, and makes it waste, and
turns it upside down.

Hey, thanks for bringing up this chapter. It is very inspiring.

Yes, a geomagnetic reversal even would fit will with the upside down description. I particularly like the meaning of distortion. A magnetic reversal is not simply a flip (on any pace). It is an accumulation of many magnetic distortions.

We do not know what other disturbance would accompany a reversal. Many reversals are identified by samples of volcanic rock. Could you imagine the link between the two, and the description in Isa 24?

BananaSlug · Dec 7, 2008

AV1611VET said:
Not hardly, Chalnoth --- try 1,950 years ago. In fact, the Christians were blamed for it, and Nero persecuted them [literally] to death --- not for Rome burning as some say --- but for the pole reversal - (which they wouldn't have understood at the time).

That has to be the most insane thing I've heard. Unless they used magnetic compasses they probably did not even notice a pole reversal. Rome was under a period of great strife in that period and Christianity was becoming more accepted. Of course the Roman leaders did not want to take the blame so they did the easiest thing... blame the Christians.

thaumaturgy · Dec 7, 2008

juvenissun said:
Hey, thanks for bringing up this chapter. It is very inspiring.

Yes, a geomagnetic reversal even would fit will with the upside down description. I particularly like the meaning of distortion. A magnetic reversal is not simply a flip (on any pace). It is an accumulation of many magnetic distortions.

I'd be interested in knowing how people of that time would have known about magnetic reversals. What sort of things would be happening such that people who likely didn't use compasses much would have been able to determine the "earth was turned upsid down"? Would there be something about the cosmic radiation flux they noted?

I understand that the Chinese likely invented the compass in the Qin dynasty (221-206BC), but did the Israelites have or use compasses or lodestones for direction?

And how would early compass users know the field was inverting?

We do not know what other disturbance would accompany a reversal. Many reversals are identified by samples of volcanic rock.

Again, how would the Israelites or even the early Romans have know about magnetic field orientation preserved in igneous rocks?

Could you imagine the link between the two, and the description in Isa 24?

One can imagine a lot. I would be interested in learning how the people of Isaiah's time or even the much later time of Nero would have known about magnetic field reversals. What would they have experienced? Are these events recorded in human records anywhere?

And why doesn't the rock record record any such reversals since the last one 780,000 years ago?

This would be a prime time to find some real nice linkages if there are any to this "interpretation" of either Acts or Isaiah.

For once we have a really clear way to "prove" the science behind this interpretation.

Interpretation: Two Biblical references form two different times refer to "the world turned upside down". Literalists claim this to be evidence of magnetic field reversals.

Potential Proof: Datable igneous rock (from eruptions) that show both time and magnetic field frozen in place.

I would be most interested in seeing this data.

AV1611VET · Dec 7, 2008

thaumaturgy said:
So did God "clean" up the evidence for this as well???? (Or was there yet another flip that went completely unnoticed such that we wound up with the same polarity we had before 58AD and the 778,050 years before?)

BananaSlug said:

That has to be the most insane thing I've heard. Unless they used magnetic compasses they probably did not even notice a pole reversal.

Click to expand...

They don't need a compass --- Luke makes this clear ---

Luke 12:39 said:
And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth.

Where are they now? --- In Galilee.

Now watch this ---

Luke 2:42 said:
And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast.

Up to Jerusalem?

Galilee, in AD16 was evidently south of Jerusalem, not north of it --- as it is today on a map.

You guys might be hot-shot geologists, but leave cartography to the cartographers, okay?

Notice too, Thaumaturgy, that it says they turned the world UPSIDE DOWN in AD58.

Thus your flip of 778,050 years ago didn't happen --- did it --- or they would have been accusing the Christians of turning the world back to RIGHTSIDE UP.

MrGoodBytes · Dec 7, 2008

AV1611VET said:
They don't need a compass --- Luke makes this clear ---Where are they now? --- In Galilee.

Now watch this ---Up to Jerusalem?

Galilee, in AD16 was evidently south of Jerusalem, not north of it --- as it is today on a map.

You guys might be hot-shot geologists, but leave cartography to the cartographers, okay?

Notice too, Thaumaturgy, that it says they turned the world UPSIDE DOWN in AD58.

Thus your flip of 778,050 years ago didn't happen --- did it --- or they would have been accusing the Christians of turning the world back to RIGHTSIDE UP.

You are insane.

AV1611VET · Dec 7, 2008

MrGoodBytes said:
You are insane.

Why?

Because I fell off my roof last year trying to get a picture of the Leonid meteor shower?

Or because I float Weebles in the bathtub, trying to find their metacenters?

What's your eccentricity?

BananaSlug · Dec 7, 2008

AV1611VET said:
They don't need a compass --- Luke makes this clear ---Where are they now? --- In Galilee.

Now watch this ---Up to Jerusalem?

Galilee, in AD16 was evidently south of Jerusalem, not north of it --- as it is today on a map.

You guys might be hot-shot geologists, but leave cartography to the cartographers, okay?

Notice too, Thaumaturgy, that it says they turned the world UPSIDE DOWN in AD58.

Thus your flip of 778,050 years ago didn't happen --- did it --- or they would have been accusing the Christians of turning the world back to RIGHTSIDE UP.

They were not accusing the Christians of causing a pole reversal! They were accusing Christians of the start of the Fall of Rome! I guess now every time I watch or hear anything with the line "I'll turn your world upside down," I'll be glad to know it's referencing a pole shift.

Spin You Around- Puddle of Mud

Upside Down- Johnny Trombley

This Disease Can Turn Your World Upside Down <Look! A disease that causes pole reversal! Astounding!

This just in... Yoga may turn your world upside down. Will birds now fly north for the winter? All this and more tonight at eleven.

turn _____ upside down to change something completely. His experience in the war turned his world upside down. The crash of the dot-com companies turned lives upside down.

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/turn+on+its+head

Nathan Poe · Dec 7, 2008

AV1611VET said:
They don't need a compass --- Luke makes this clear ---Where are they now? --- In Galilee.

Now watch this ---Up to Jerusalem?

Galilee, in AD16 was evidently south of Jerusalem, not north of it --- as it is today on a map.
You guys might be hot-shot geologists, but leave cartography to the cartographers, okay?

And leave the Bible reading to the clinically sane. The brith story of Jesus is so full of holes that only someone who had fallen off a roof would accept it as literal history.

If I thought you were brave enough to face the facts, I'd start a thread on it -- but youy'd never dare participate in such a discussion in any meaningful way.

(incidentally, did you know that ancient Egypt was divided in the upper and lower kingdoms, with the upper kingdom being to the South? Could this be because of the planet doing a somersault, or because of using the nile river which flows North, as a reference? Seriously, AV -- you're embarassing yourself again)

Notice too, Thaumaturgy, that it says they turned the world UPSIDE DOWN in AD58.

Thus your flip of 778,050 years ago didn't happen --- did it --- or they would have been accusing the Christians of turning the world back to RIGHTSIDE UP.

AV -- I speak to you now as a fellow member of the human race -- seek help.

I mean, listen to yourself, man! Listen to the asinine drivel you're trying to pawn off as actual events!

The planet literally turned upside down -- because...?

Christians were blames for this geological event -- because...?

You stopped taking your medications this week -- because...?

thaumaturgy · Dec 7, 2008

AV1611VET said:
You guys might be hot-shot geologists, but leave cartography to the cartographers, okay?

You do know that, as a geologist I had to learn a lot of cartography, right? I've even made a map or two.

Have you? Do you even know what is required of a geology major?

Why do you "pontificate" so?

Notice too, Thaumaturgy, that it says they turned the world UPSIDE DOWN in AD58.

Thus your flip of 778,050 years ago didn't happen --- did it --- or they would have been accusing the Christians of turning the world back to RIGHTSIDE UP.

No, AV you missed the point: if the rocks from 780,000 years ago (the rocks, the things that weren't written by humans) show a polarity to the field of "North Up" or whatever, then in order for there to be a "North Up" condition today and for your interperatation of the Bible to be accurate, there should be easily found not just one but two preserved magnetic field reversals in between there. (Unless you think there have been no eruptions of mafic lavas since before the time of Isaiah til today. Because everytime an iron-containing lava cools and crystallizes it records the polarity if the earth's magnetic field.)

It's simple math.

And I don't imagine it bothers you that no such information appears to have been recorded in the rocks over the past nearly 2000 years.

But rather than assume your interpretation of the Bible to be in error you must be assuming all of science is in error. (Even the science you don't understand enough to realize contains a significant amount of cartography. Do you know what we teach in Geology 1 lab classes like the first or second class? How to read a map. I studied under a guy who, if you knew geology, you might actually recognize his name because he, personally, is responsible for many geologic maps in parts of the U.S. You can see his name on the maps themselves. Why would you think geologists aren't related to cartographers?)

This really is an excellent chance for you to prove just one of your "bible interpretations" as factually true. You've made a claim and it can be easily tested.

If you think it's accurate then show us the proof. (Remember, proof is always bad...sometimes it comes in handy!)

AV1611VET · Dec 7, 2008

thaumaturgy said:
You do know that, as a geologist I had to learn a lot of cartography, right? I've even made a map or two.

Then how is it, if you have had to learn cartography, AND you have read the Bible, that you made such a rookie mistake? After all, why aren't YOU claiming the Bible speaks of magnetic earth reversal in AD 58?

In addition, Thaumaturgy, you and I have a MAJOR disagreement on your theory; because, as you know, I don't believe there was a "780,000 years ago". I'll vouch for 6100 years --- after that --- nothing (literally).

In addition --- the earth didn't flip in Isaiah's time --- I said it evidently flipped in Nero's time.

thaumaturgy said:
Have you? Do you even know what is required of a geology major?

No, sir, I sure don't --- but and until geologists can earn their pay and conclude that the stones cry out the majesty of Jesus Christ (as Jesus Christ said they would), then they can keep their big fat clipboards out of the Bible.

AV1611VET · Dec 7, 2008

Just FYI --- for those of you who are Poe-dependent and think I'm serious about this magnetic reversal stuff --- this icon is for you:

You guys are a real laugh-a-minute.

Danyc · Dec 7, 2008

AV, you should know by now that at this point, everything you say must be taken seriously. We have come to know you by the insane things you say. If you spout nonsense about pole reversals, who are we to say you are joking?

AV1611VET · Dec 7, 2008

Danyc said:
AV, you should know by now that at this point, everything you say must be taken seriously. We have come to know you by the insane things you say. If you spout nonsense about pole reversals, who are we to say you are joking?

Danyc, do you realize that everything we say is "insane"? If I say, "Jesus walked on water", is that not "insane" to you guys? If I say, "Jesus ascended up to Heaven in the clouds," is that not "insane" to you guys?

juvenissun · Dec 7, 2008

AV1611VET said:
Just FYI --- for those of you who are Poe-dependent and think I'm serious about this magnetic reversal stuff --- this icon is for you:

You guys are a real laugh-a-minute.

Good for you AV.

I am serious about it and they dared not to touch me. Bunch of weasels.

AV1611VET · Dec 7, 2008

juvenissun said:
Good for you AV.

I am serious about it and they dared not to touch me. Bunch of weasels.

To be honest, Junenissun, these people are confused, and don't know what to believe.

In rejecting God, they reject anything that gives them a moral compass to lead them in the right direction.

Their idea of "salvation" comes in the form of a time-release capsule, or living 10 years longer, or even leaving this planet for another one.

Their "hope" lies in being cryogenically frozen until someone finds the proverbial Fountain of Youth.

They can't tell were they came from, or where they're going --- and it is truly a shame.

We need to pray, bro --- seriously pray for the lost.

Morcova · Dec 7, 2008

AV1611VET said:
Not hardly, Chalnoth --- try 1,950 years ago. In fact, the Christians were blamed for it, and Nero persecuted them [literally] to death --- not for Rome burning as some say --- but for the pole reversal - (which they wouldn't have understood at the time).

Hahaha, that's hilarious. Wow, you really do make it up as you go along.

Nathan Poe · Dec 7, 2008

AV1611VET said:
Just FYI --- for those of you who are Poe-dependent and think I'm serious about this magnetic reversal stuff --- this icon is for you:

You guys are a real laugh-a-minute.

Good job, AV -- first, you post on your regular level of blather,

Then, you secretly learn something which proves you wrong,

So you invoke Poe's Law after the fact in a desperate attempt to save face.

Take My Poe Challenge, AV -- Convince me that your Magnetic Reversal schtick is in any way, shape, or form different from your usual material.

Nathan Poe · Dec 7, 2008

AV1611VET said:
To be honest, Junenissun, these people are confused, and don't know what to believe.

In rejecting God, they reject anything that gives them a moral compass to lead them in the right direction.

Perhaps the poles have shifted on the Moral Compasses too?

Their idea of "salvation" comes in the form of a time-release capsule, or living 10 years longer, or even leaving this planet for another one.

Their "hope" lies in being cryogenically frozen until someone finds the proverbial Fountain of Youth.

Who are you referring to, AV? It doesn't help you to have imaginary conversations with phantoms, and then claim that they're the confused ones.

They can't tell were they came from, or where they're going --- and it is truly a shame.

The shame comes form those so weak that they will, remora-like, latch onto anything that promises to give their lives meaning -- even ancient mythology.

... and not even particularly good ancient mythology, either -- the Greeks got it much better.

We need to pray, bro --- seriously pray for the lost.

Physician, heal thyself.

Which creation do creationists want us to believe took place?

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