Which creation do creationists want us to believe took place?

[MoonLancer]

P.S. For some reason, misspelling doesn't annoy me as much as misusing certain words (typically the homonyms, you're/your, their/they're/there are the most common).

yeah, I'm ucky at those too. When i said i was bad at spelling i forgot to included grammer. ;p

But if you want to fix the spelling issue, an easy way is to just use Firefox or Google Chrome. They both have built-in spell checkers (though for some reason Firefox's broke support for contractions recently...don't know what's going on there).

I use Firefox. If it diden't spell check my work, about 1 out of 7 words would be wrong. Its disheartening because I know i couldn't survive the middle ages as an intellectual because of that. Maybe its environment based, so if i did live in the middle ages, I wouldn't be like this? who knows? anyway back to the off topic topic.

 

[juvenissun]

I'm honestly flabbergasted that you think you've provided any explanations.


It's not a good explanation, but it's at least an attempt at one, which is more than you've provided before. To actually make it into a good explanation, however, you'd need to do what thaumaturgy did here, which is to not only present that water is necessary for lubrication, but president evidence that this is the case. You didn't even go that far, however. You just baldly asserted that the hydrological cycle is essential for plate tectonics. You didn't present even a ghost of an argument as to why this would be the case, not even the one-liner you have above.

You are confused on who you are in this forum. I am not obligated to explain anything to you. In fact, until you touched the very point, I am not going to explain anything to you. Demand me to give evidence on what I said is an useless effort. When I feel I should give you some, I will. Otherwise, if you don't like what I said, very simple, don't respond.

1. Not enough water.

There is more than enough water to do that. The average elevation of the earth surface is something like 1000 meters below the sea level.

 

[juvenissun]

P.S. For some reason, misspelling doesn't annoy me as much as misusing certain words (typically the homonyms, you're/your, their/they're/there are the most common). But if you want to fix the spelling issue, an easy way is to just use Firefox or Google Chrome. They both have built-in spell checkers (though for some reason Firefox's broke support for contractions recently...don't know what's going on there).

Hey, you are getting too old.
Don't you know the main style of communication is moving toward vocal and visual? As long as they sound alike, look alike and understandable, they are acceptable.

 

[juvenissun]

I probably will, at some point. But I have been a teacher's aide, which involved, at times, teaching lab/discussion sections. The primary focus in these courses was always understanding, not simple lists of facts. Students were actively discouraged from attempting to memorize their way through the course work (as physics just doesn't work that way).

Unfortunately, geology does. At least at the undergraduate level. As a robot, the more you memorize, the better off you will be.

 

[juvenissun]

Paul said it best:
Originally Posted by 1 Corinthians 2:2

For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

And as John Wesley puts it:
Originally Posted by John Wesley's Notes

V. 2. I determined not to know anything -To wave all my other knowledge, and not to preach anything, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified - That is, what he did, suffered, taught. A part is put for the whole.

You need to give A LOT of thanks. Only the most bless people can do that.

 

[juvenissun]

Okay.

What does, "The earth is 'created' with the water cycle in function." mean?

Why is "created" in quotation marks?

What does "in function" mean?

AND, exactly what is meant by "the earth IS created" "Is" is the present tense of "was," which is how the creation is normally referred to: in the past. (I assume you're referring to Biblical creation when you used "created"). Using "is" you imply this creation is now going on.

Too many questions at once. Let's see how could I explain some of them. If not enough, you may keep ask.

I used "is" because it is done by God. In Him, everything is IS, and no was.

What I meant was that the earth is created with the water cycle process in the design. So far, scientists do not know when did the process start and how did it start.

 

[BananaSlug]

It started once the earth was cool enough for the water vapor from comet bombardment to condense in the atmosphere and fall as precipitation.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1664683

Water ice has been detected in our solar system on other planets and their moons, as well as in comets. A group of scientists at Japan's Institute of Low Temperature Science at Hokkaido University say, "Since the solar system evolved from an interstellar molecular cloud, icy objects in the solar system originated from the water ice formed in the interstellar molecular cloud." Their research was an attempt to gain an understanding of the origin of water molecules in interstellar clouds.
Water does form easily here in the warmth and abundance of Earth when oxygen and atomic hydrogen come together. But there's not a lot of those elements floating around as gas in interstellar dust clouds. From their research, the group from Japan has concluded that water must form when atomic hydrogen interacts with frozen solid oxygen on a solid surface, such as dust grains in interstellar clouds.
They recreated this process by creating a layer of solid oxygen on an aluminum substrate at 10 degrees Kelvin and then added hydrogen. With infrared spectroscopy, they confirmed that both water and hydrogen peroxide formed, and in the right quantities to explain the abundance of water seen in interstellar clouds.
It's interesting to note that the first water molecules in the universe must have started in this way, and that eventually led to water on Earth, then life, and then eventually people on Earth, who like to research, discuss and contemplate how it all began.

^from http://www.universetoday.com/2008/05/06/water-in-interstellar-space/

Why would God create water in other parts of space if only Earth was created for life?

 

[thaumaturgy]

What I meant was that the earth is created with the water cycle process in the design. So far, scientists do not know when did the process start and how did it start.

I never realized the "phase" changes in water were so "mysterious". I rather thought that once water was present on the surface of the earth given the fact that the earth has sufficient solar irradiance and distance from the sun that we have a variety of temperatures, coupled with our mass which allows for a given gravity that can hold an atmsophere that pretty much everything else in the hydrologic cycle would follow.

The hydrologic cycle is pretty straightforward. And all that is required is heat from the sun to drive most of it, as well as some geothermal heating to drive a bit in the lithosphere.

So coupled with BananSlug's post it would seem that there is little mystery. Perhaps the exact moment of the beginning of the hydrologic cycle could be up for debate, but the systematics seem pretty clear. And dare I say non-miraculous?

Am I missing something?

Now water is pretty special being a material that expands upon solidifying and then there's the "magic" of hydrogen bonding making it more prone to being a liquid at temperatures that similarly sized molecules that don't have as strong hydrogen bonds would exist as a gas in, but again, doesn't seem to mystical and miraculous to me.

Perhaps I'm too jaded by being a scientist.

 

[juvenissun]

It started once the earth was cool enough for the water vapor from comet bombardment to condense in the atmosphere and fall as precipitation.

There are many problems. Just to name one which fits what you said: How could the surface of the earth be cooled below 100°C?

 

[Chalnoth]

You are confused on who you are in this forum. I am not obligated to explain anything to you. In fact, until you touched the very point, I am not going to explain anything to you. Demand me to give evidence on what I said is an useless effort. When I feel I should give you some, I will. Otherwise, if you don't like what I said, very simple, don't respond.

I don't see why we shouldn't expect you to provide explanations and evidence for what you assert to be true. It's no less than we expect from ourselves, after all.

There is more than enough water to do that. The average elevation of the earth surface is something like 1000 meters below the sea level.

The average isn't at issue. It's the differences in elevation that is. There simply isn't enough water on Earth to cover the highest mountains.

 

[Chalnoth]

There are many problems. Just to name one which fits what you said: How could the surface of the earth be cooled below 100°C?

Er, by radiating heat into space? Early on, when the Earth had first formed, it was hot due to the collapse of the gas cloud from which it formed. Most of the heat was driven internally, and it emitted much more heat than it received from the Sun. Eventually this emission of heat caused the surface temperature to drop below the boiling point of water.

 

[juvenissun]

I don't see why we shouldn't expect you to provide explanations and evidence for what you assert to be true. It's no less than we expect from ourselves, after all.


The average isn't at issue. It's the differences in elevation that is. There simply isn't enough water on Earth to cover the highest mountains.

Why is the average elevation not the issue? It is one of the key feature of the earth.

 

[juvenissun]

Er, by radiating heat into space? Early on, when the Earth had first formed, it was hot due to the collapse of the gas cloud from which it formed. Most of the heat was driven internally, and it emitted much more heat than it received from the Sun. Eventually this emission of heat caused the surface temperature to drop below the boiling point of water.

Then why is the earth's surface today still warm?

 

[MoonLancer]

The sun. the heat that warms the earth dissipates at night and that's why night times are generally cooler. Also when you deal with tilt and seasons, winter is colder then summer for the same reason.

The sun is also what keeps our system and open system rather then a closed system when it comes to thermal dynamics.

 

[Chalnoth]

Why is the average elevation not the issue? It is one of the key feature of the earth.

Yes, but it doesn't determine whether or not it's possible for every feature on Earth to be covered in water. For that to happen, the surface of the Earth would need to be much, much more uniform than it is now.

So, your hypothesis would require:
1. The difference in height between the continent and the ocean surface would have had to be much smaller.
2. But since the different in heights between continents and ocean surfaces is largely determined by their respective compositions (continents float higher on the crust than the denser oceanic crust), this means that the composition of the Earth's crust would have had to be more uniform.
3. No mountains above around 1000 meters could possibly exist before the flood.
4. The water that today fills the oceans would have had to have been somewhere else before the flood occurs. Where?
5. During/after the flood, there would have had to have been a massive change in the composition and geography of the Earth's crust, to separate ocean from land and to raise massive mountains far above the surface.

So, how is this even remotely plausible?

 

[Chalnoth]

Then why is the earth's surface today still warm?

A combination of heat input from the Sun and radioactive materials within the Earth come together to make for an equilibrium temperature in the right range.

 

[thaumaturgy]

You are confused on who you are in this forum. I am not obligated to explain anything to you. In fact, until you touched the very point, I am not going to explain anything to you.

I have never met a "teacher" or instructor who could say something like this. I am, to say the least, amazed that someone could say this sort of thing, let alone someone who has on various occasions indicated his association with teaching.

Demand me to give evidence on what I said is an useless effort.

Indeed.

When I feel I should give you some, I will.

I wonder what part of "discussion", "teaching" or "knowledge" Juvenissun is confused about.

Otherwise, if you don't like what I said, very simple, don't respond.

No one is required to respond, but when people beg for information in support of a claim he made, for him to deny that request is kind of "anti-teaching", isn't it?

 

[juvenissun]

The sun. the heat that warms the earth dissipates at night and that's why night times are generally cooler. Also when you deal with tilt and seasons, winter is colder then summer for the same reason.

The sun is also what keeps our system and open system rather then a closed system when it comes to thermal dynamics.

So why doesn't the sun work the same on the moon? Because of no water there. Right? There is not much water in the air of the earth either.

So, how does the earth keep herself warm globally? The air. Right?

So, what was the air like at the beginning of the earth?

 

[JesusFreak4L]

The Second Creation Account
• 1:1-2:3 – the Cosmological Perspective (THE BIG PICTURE)
• 2:4-25 – the Anthropological Perspective (God wants a relationship with us)
-Man is given…
*A home
*Vocational responsibility (2:15)
*Moral responsibility (2:16-17)
* A companion (ishah)
*The institution of marriage

 

[juvenissun]

Yes, but it doesn't determine whether or not it's possible for every feature on Earth to be covered in water. For that to happen, the surface of the Earth would need to be much, much more uniform than it is now.

So, your hypothesis would require:
1. The difference in height between the continent and the ocean surface would have had to be much smaller.
2. But since the different in heights between continents and ocean surfaces is largely determined by their respective compositions (continents float higher on the crust than the denser oceanic crust), this means that the composition of the Earth's crust would have had to be more uniform.
3. No mountains above around 1000 meters could possibly exist before the flood.
4. The water that today fills the oceans would have had to have been somewhere else before the flood occurs. Where?
5. During/after the flood, there would have had to have been a massive change in the composition and geography of the Earth's crust, to separate ocean from land and to raise massive mountains far above the surface.

So, how is this even remotely plausible?

You got it. But your questions are to be dealt with in other considerations.

At least, we recognized that there IS enough water to do the global flood. You want me to dealt with one issue. I did.