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Which birthday ?

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by Hervey, Dec 27, 2001.

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  1. Hervey

    Hervey Member

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    The "world" has given Jesus Christ a birthday, dated according to a pagan
    holiday, winter Solstice - festival of lights.

    What many do not stop to think about, is that Jesus Christ had "two"
    birthdays. The day he was born of Mary, and his resurrection birthday,
    which is when he became "born again".

    Jesus Christ was about thirty years old when his ministry started (after his
    baptism - Luke 3:21 - 23) . His ministry lasted for three and a half years
    ( 3 1/2 ). They crucified him at 33 1/2 years old. He was dead for three
    days and three nights, then God raised "His" Son from the dead.

    What we call "Easter", which is more accurate according to the Word of God,
    is called the "Passover". Which means that Christ was the Passover offering
    ( I Cor. 5:7) , and that he passed over from death unto life.

    In his resurrected body, he was "born again" from death unto life. This is
    his second birthday. Interestingly, the "Passover" -- called "Easter" on
    our calendars and sadly in our churches, is quite accurate according to the
    time of year, of the "Passover". (Early April )

    Because of the half of a year ( 1/2 ) , and the death and resurrection
    taking place in early April. All one has to do, is to count backwards, or
    forward 6 months, to find out that Jesus Christ was born the "first" time in
    late September or early October. And he was "born again" in early April,
    after he had become 33 and 1/2 years old. Oh, and you can add three days
    and three nights to that <grin>.

    "Two" birthdays

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
     
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  2. fran

    fran Member

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    Great information, Hervey! You are a great member and asset to these forums! Keep your gems coming!
     
  3. rkbo

    rkbo Member

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    That's interesting. I'll add this to the disscusion.


    As to whether our Lord's birth really occurred on December 25 ancient authorities are not agreed. Clement of Alexandria says that some place it on April 20, others on May 20, whereas Epiphanius states that in Egypt Jesus was believed to have been born on January 6. (from New Unger's Bible Dictionary)
    (originally published by Moody Press of Chicago, Illinois. Copyright (C) 1988.)

    As to Jesus being born again I wonder about that. he was without sin and did not have to die. He died for our sins. We must be born again but I don't see that he does. WE are born again by believeing in Christ this I think does not apply to Christ himself.

    [This message has been edited by rkbo (edited 27 December 2001).]
     
  4. Hervey

    Hervey Member

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    rkbo:

    Jesus died for the sins of the world, as our sacrifical lamb. He was our passover lamb. He died ! He was raised from the dead , not to die again. We all will die, and we all will be raised from the dead, in one of the two resurrections.

    Others died , that we read about in the Word, and were raised from the dead also, to die again ( Lazarus ).

    Christians, from a spiritual POV, died with Christ, when he died . We were baptized into his death, and were therefore buried with him into his death. We were planted in the likeness of his death, and we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection. (Romans 6:3 - 5 )

    Romans 6:8 - 10

    8) - "Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:"

    9) - "Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more ; death hath no more dominion over him"

    10) - "For in that he died, he died unto sin once : but in that he liveth , he liveth unto God"

    Ephesians 2:5 - "Even when we were dead in sins , hath quickened us "togther" with Christ , for by grace ye are saved"

    Ephesians 2:6 - "And hath raised us up "together", and made us sit "together" in heavenly places in Christ Jesus"

    Act 4:10 - "Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, [even] by him doth this man stand here before you whole."

    Act 13:30 - "But God raised him from the dead:"

    Rom 7:4 - "Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God."

    Rom 10:9 - "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

    Gal 1:1 - "Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead [​IMG]"
    Col 2:12 - "Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."

    1Pe 1:21 - "Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. "

    Jesus Christ took the sins of the world upon him, and trusted God, that his Father would raise him from the dead , and commended his spirit into the hands of God .

    Luk 23:46 - "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

    Jesus Christ had to "trust" God , as we do also, to raise him from the dead. This is being "born" from death unto life, never to die again. < This is being "born again". So yes, Jesus Christ "had" to be born again, as we do also.

    John 3:3 - "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

    John 3:7 - "Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again."

    "MUST"

    1Pe 1:23 - "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."

    Love IN Christ - Hervey

     
  5. rkbo

    rkbo Member

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    Hi Hervey. I understand what you are saying but I think maybe I have not been clear. I believe that the term Jesus uses "Born again" is talking about spiritual birth. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
    Heb 13:8
    8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
    (KJV)

    We need spiritual rebirth but Jesus does not. When Jesus died his spirit did not. The greek word for death, Nekros or apothnesco can meen physical or spiritual death. It can be best understood as a separation. That is when the spirit is separated from the body the body is dead. When the spirit is separated from God the spirit is dead even though it still exist.
    Matt 8:22
    22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
    (KJV)

    I believe Jesus died and rose again but that was his body. His spirit was and has always been uncorrupted and was never in need of spiritual rebirth. I hope this is clearer and I think we probably agree on this.....dont we?
     
  6. Hervey

    Hervey Member

    481
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    Hi rkbo:

    What I believe we agree on, is that "spirit", of any kind, can not die.

    Devil spirits can not die, in a literal sense, but they will end up in the "second death" called the Lake of fire.

    While on the other hand , physical bodies can and "do" die.

    There are "two" types of rebirths. Physical and spiritual.

    One is literal -- the physical of course. And the other is spiritual, which deals with one's spirit, be it a devil spirit, or the spirit of man, or the gift of holy spirit, or the "spirit of his Son" in us = Christ in us, the hope of glory.

    The ressurection of Jesus Christ , after three days and three nights was his "physical" rebirth. Even after his physical rebirth, Jesus Christ was still the same - yesterday, he was the Son of God and the son of man, and that did not change. After his ressurection, today, he was still the same Son of God and son of man that he was before his death and ressurection. After his ressurection , tomorrow, he still will be the Son of God, and the son of man , because he is the same "yesterday", "today", and "tomorrow".

    Let me clarify something here. The resurrection of Jesus Christ was a rebirth, both of the physical and the spiritual.

    Remember, that Jesus Christ said, that he commended "his spirit" into the hands of God. Which means that he gave him the responsibility , and power of his spirit, and its resurrection from the grave.

    Let me explain something else about the resurrection of Jesus Christ, and all those who will be resurrected in the future.

    Jesus Christ was "our" passover lamb, in order that "we" also will passover from death unto life. It tells us in Colossians 1:15 that Jesus Christ is the "firstborn" of every creature . ( Creature - meaning "mankind"). You will notice the word "firstborn". This means "born again". The spirit of Jesus Christ was in the "grave" with him, and it was "raised" along with his body. But "salvation" is promised unto all those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and the promises of salvation through the Lord Jesus Christ . But by the grace of the Lord God Almighty, "all" of mankind will be raised from the dead. Some , from corruption unto incorruption, and Christians will be raised from mortal , unto immortality. ( Ref: I Corinthians 15:42 thru 54. )

    Jesus Christ was raised "both" in the physical as well as the spiritual, when God his Father raised him from the dead.

    Remember that Jesus Christ relied on his Father to raise him from the dead. This is what it means -- "to "commend" his spirit into his Father's hands".

    I pray this helps.

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
     
  7. rkbo

    rkbo Member

    272
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    Hi Hervey:

    I think we do disagree. I would first like to point out that in Col. the word for "firstborn" Means preeminent. That is Prototokos (firstborn) and proteuoon (preeminent)are synonyms here. In verse 15 and then verse 18 we are being taught that Christ is above all creation. Let's look at the fact that "all" things were created by him. He is not a created thing and is above all "things" making him preeminent. Look at this example:

    Gen 41:51-52
    51 And Joseph called the name of the firstborn Manasseh: For God, said he, hath made me forget all my toil, and all my father's house.
    52 And the name of the second called he Ephraim: For God hath caused me to be fruitful in the land of my affliction.
    (KJV)


    Jer 31:9
    9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.
    (KJV)

    You see how Ephraim is now the "firstborn" He had obtained "preeminence" over Manasseh.

    Jesus is preeminent and the term "firstborn" is used but it nowhere means "born again"

    Jesus used the term " gennao anothen" born from above. The physical resurrection was just that a resurrection. "anastasis" means to stand up again or to be raised from the dead. To link Col. firstborn with 1cor. resurrection can not be done in this way.

    Now about Jesus and his spirit.
    Luke 23:46
    46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
    (KJV)

    I'm afraid I don't see that, the way you do. Jesus said
    John 10:17-18
    17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
    18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.
    (KJV)

    Jesus had the power to lay down his life and the power to take it again. He has the power over death. His spirit never needed to be born anew or be renewed his spirit never died nor could it. I'm sorry but we just disagree on this.

    [This message has been edited by rkbo (edited 29 December 2001).]
     
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