Where will conservatives go if they leave the UMC in a few years?

If the UMC reverses it's policy, but fails to split, where will conservatives go that leave?

  • (1) a Baptist Church

    Votes: 5 16.1%
  • (2) a conservative Presbyterian denomination

    Votes: 4 12.9%
  • (3) Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod

    Votes: 1 3.2%
  • (4) Church of the Nazarene

    Votes: 14 45.2%
  • (5) Disciples of Christ

    Votes: 1 3.2%
  • (6) other Protestant bodies

    Votes: 12 38.7%
  • (7) Catholic or Eastern Orthodox

    Votes: 6 19.4%

  • Total voters
    31

bekkilyn

Contemplative Christian
Supporter
Apr 27, 2017
7,612
8,475
USA
✟677,608.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Others
It's one thing to have some similar beliefs in ritual. It's a whole other thing to wish to subject oneself to being under the rule of a Pope and all the other things that come with that.
 
Upvote 0

Anto9us

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jul 10, 2013
5,089
2,040
Texas
✟95,745.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Our songs are not really "ours" -- I mean songs originally by Charles Wesley and other songs in the Methodist Hymnals -- these hymns belong to all Christians -- Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox, last night I browsed thru a hymnal of the Brethren Church -- very many songs the same

as far as ritual and liturgy sharing many elements, yes, Catholicism is an option if Methodists split, since much liturgy came from Church of England as has been said -- so is Orthodoxy an option (my son is now) and only thing different in hymns there is 'no instruments'...

but once you get Methodists singing to hymns they know -- a piano is not essential -- but me personally I like guitars pianos drums trumpets -- everthang
 
Upvote 0

seeking.IAM

Episcopalian
Supporter
Feb 29, 2004
4,235
4,910
Indiana
✟931,189.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Our songs are not really "ours" -- I mean songs originally by Charles Wesley and other songs in the Methodist Hymnals -- these hymns belong to all Christians -- Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox, last night I browsed thru a hymnal of the Brethren Church -- very many songs the same

as far as ritual and liturgy sharing many elements, yes, Catholicism is an option if Methodists split, since much liturgy came from Church of England as has been said -- so is Orthodoxy an option (my son is now) and only thing different in hymns there is 'no instruments'...

but once you get Methodists singing to hymns they know -- a piano is not essential -- but me personally I like guitars pianos drums trumpets -- everthang

Your songs from Charles Wesley, are actually OURS. The Wesley's were Anglicans. And, you're welcome. :wave:
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Concerning a Roman Catholic option, there's a certain logic in that, but it ain't gonna happen! Merging into one of the Anglican churches might be, although I think it's much more likely that dissident Methodist conservatives would found a new Methodism church body.
 
Upvote 0

seeking.IAM

Episcopalian
Supporter
Feb 29, 2004
4,235
4,910
Indiana
✟931,189.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I'll say it again. When I was UMC, folks going elsewhere largely ended up in non-denoms. If I were a betting man, I think non-denoms will be the single biggest winner in a UMC schism.

About every little town with at least one 4-way stop sign has a Methodist Church and some flavor of non-denom. If they are a big enough for a stoplight, then you can add a Baptist church to that. Geography is the major problem with saying other church types will benefit most, IMHO, not theology.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Maid Marie

Zechariah 4:6
Nov 30, 2008
3,548
328
Pennsylvania
✟19,068.00
Faith
Nazarene
Marital Status
Private
There is a lot of carryover from Orthodoxy/Catholicism into the Methodist rituals due to the Church of England. That said, you might not get a lot of buy-in from evangelical Methodists for Marian devotion, or the fact that some (like me) are divorced and remarried and could not commune in the RC church.
And that women are not allowed to be priests. Change that and end the Marian devotion and I might consider.
 
Upvote 0

actionsub

Sir, this is a Wendy's...
Jun 20, 2004
899
296
Belleville, IL
✟57,245.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I'll say it again. When I was UMC, folks going elsewhere largely ended up in non-denoms. If I were a betting man, I think non-denoms will be the single biggest winner in a UMC schism.

About every little town with at least one 4-way stop sign has a Methodist Church and some flavor of non-denom. If they are a big enough for a stoplight, then you can add a Baptist church to that. Geography is the major problem with saying other church types will benefit most, IMHO, not theology.

The big UMC in our town will, in all probability, go non-denom. They seem to be positioning themselves at this point right now. As a megachurch, they are likely big enough to be able to buy their way out of any property issues with the Conference, plus they have a number of satellite campuses where they can disperse if need be.
 
Upvote 0

Anto9us

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jul 10, 2013
5,089
2,040
Texas
✟95,745.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
touche, on Wesleys being Anglican, Seeking,
I think Charles died b4 John, and neither one
may have ever dreamed Methodism would be more than a movement
WITHIN the Anglican Church...

non-denoms are prolific, yes,
and some tend to be Calvinistic,
whereas Methodists are generally Arminian

I am convalescing in another town at a VA hospital,
attending a really on-fire non-denom on sundays
where the pastor mentions reading Piper and Hoekema, well,
fine, -- as long as the MUSIC is still heavenly,
that trumps Calvinism vs Arminianism to me!

this gal played a violin sunday - blew me away with the fiddle,
then when she started SINGING - wow - almost tears to my eyes

during the week there is a service at a Brethren Church -
a denom I don't know much about,
that was where I browsed their hymnal and saw many hymns same as Methodist

Only UMC I can walk to is a black congregation
I have been THE only white person at a Wednesday service,
and of course was welcomed enthusiastically

I turn 65 soon -- getting closer to a time when
denominations are not going to matter anyway

perhaps I will live to see a Split -- perhaps not

a day is coming, for me and for all of us,
whether by death or return of Christ --
where none of this denominational stuff
will make a dime's worth of difference
 
Upvote 0

bekkilyn

Contemplative Christian
Supporter
Apr 27, 2017
7,612
8,475
USA
✟677,608.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Others
I'll say it again. When I was UMC, folks going elsewhere largely ended up in non-denoms. If I were a betting man, I think non-denoms will be the single biggest winner in a UMC schism.

About every little town with at least one 4-way stop sign has a Methodist Church and some flavor of non-denom. If they are a big enough for a stoplight, then you can add a Baptist church to that. Geography is the major problem with saying other church types will benefit most, IMHO, not theology.

This is probably the most likely scenario. It seems that most people aren't in a church because it's Methodist, Baptist, Lutheran, etc. but because they like the other people in the church, and many do not delve deep into specific doctrines that distinguish one from another.

With that said, I might predict that many people in many churches will just shrug their shoulders about the whole thing and simply continue going to the same church they've been going to because they like it and don't care about all the politics.
 
Upvote 0

Basil the Great

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Mar 9, 2009
4,766
4,085
✟721,243.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Green
Your songs from Charles Wesley, are actually OURS. The Wesley's were Anglicans. And, you're welcome. :wave:
I still recall that famous admonition from John Wesley, "If the Methodists leave the Church (Church of England), God will leave the Methodists."
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

actionsub

Sir, this is a Wendy's...
Jun 20, 2004
899
296
Belleville, IL
✟57,245.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Yes, there is the Church of the Nazarene, the Free Methodists, the Primitive Methodists and the Wesleyan Church. However, many smaller communities would not have any of these four Wesleyan bodies.

I realize I'm bumping a four-year-old post here. That said, I live in an Illinois suburb of St. Louis. Of the four choices here, the only one that's in our community or anywhere close is the Church of the Nazarene. The nearest Free Methodists are in the next county half an hour away. The only nearby Wesleyan Church is on the other end of the greater St. Louis area from where I'm at. As for the Primitive Methodists, the only one in Illinois is in a Chicago suburb, a five-hour drive one way.

So it's the Nazarenes for me!
 
Upvote 0

actionsub

Sir, this is a Wendy's...
Jun 20, 2004
899
296
Belleville, IL
✟57,245.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
There are more United Methodist churches in the United States than there are Nazarene churches in the entire world. While they may be ideologically similar, I contend that many communities will not have a Nazarene church present to absorb an exodus from said community's UMC. So many such Methodists would have to either be a new Nazarene church start or find somewhere else to worship. I think it is more likely that non-denoms will capture more affected UMCs than any one established denomination...for they are everywhere.

The UMC megachurch here in town completed disaffiliation proceedings over the past summer, so that resulted in a couple of thousand former Methodists that are now non-denominational and leaning toward charismatic.
 
Upvote 0

Methodized

God is love and in God there is no darkness.
Supporter
Feb 1, 2019
179
118
Midwest USA
✟103,604.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Methodist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
The UMC megachurch here in town completed disaffiliation proceedings over the past summer, so that resulted in a couple of thousand former Methodists that are now non-denominational and leaning toward charismatic.

Why would they lean charismatic? I mean I know there is a quite small charismatic wing in the UMC. But, why would this megachurch lean charismatic? It really isn't an emphasis in the UMC.
 
Upvote 0

Methodized

God is love and in God there is no darkness.
Supporter
Feb 1, 2019
179
118
Midwest USA
✟103,604.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Methodist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
BTW, the question is kind of out of date. The UMC will split. The Global Methodists are preparing to split from the UMC and have gone so far as to prepare their own structure and Book of Discipline. They are recruiting pastors and congregations in various conference to leave.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: actionsub
Upvote 0

actionsub

Sir, this is a Wendy's...
Jun 20, 2004
899
296
Belleville, IL
✟57,245.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Why would they lean charismatic? I mean I know there is a quite small charismatic wing in the UMC. But, why would this megachurch lean charismatic? It really isn't an emphasis in the UMC.

This church, for the 25 years leading up to the separation, was pretty much Methodist in name only to be honest. The fact that they were the district's cash cow didn't hurt any, and the bishop and DS gave the senior pastor (who was there for all of that quarter century) a quite long leash to do whatever he wanted.

The senior pastor of the church in question has had a, shall we say, wide-ranging theological journey thanks to his father. His dad was a Southern Baptist pastor who was ousted for embracing speaking in tongues, etc. in the 70s. After his ouster, he joined forces with an evangelistic ministry to eastern Europe. Somewhere in there, he felt the Lord telling him to "return home", namely the Methodist Church where he was raised. (Obviously the Lord has since told him to leave "home" again...)

The son followed him through that journey and wound up in Methodism, neck deep in that "quite small charismatic wing". The main presenting issue in the split wasn't LGBT rights (though they are against ordaining or marrying the same-sex attracted), but pastoral succession. The pastor wanted the rights to name who his successor would be, as well as keeping his present staff.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Methodized

God is love and in God there is no darkness.
Supporter
Feb 1, 2019
179
118
Midwest USA
✟103,604.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Methodist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
This church, for the 25 years leading up to the separation, was pretty much Methodist in name only to be honest. The fact that they were the district's cash cow didn't hurt any, and the bishop and DS gave the senior pastor (who was there for all of that quarter century) a quite long leash to do whatever he wanted.

The senior pastor of the church in question has had a, shall we say, wide-ranging theological journey thanks to his father. His dad was a Southern Baptist pastor who was ousted for embracing speaking in tongues, etc. in the 70s. After his ouster, he joined forces with an evangelistic ministry to eastern Europe. Somewhere in there, he felt the Lord telling him to "return home", namely the Methodist Church where he was raised. (Obviously the Lord has since told him to leave "home" again...)

The son followed him through that journey and wound up in Methodism, neck deep in that "quite small charismatic wing". The main presenting issue in the split wasn't LGBT rights (though they are against ordaining or marrying the same-sex attracted), but pastoral succession. The pastor wanted the rights to name who his successor would be, as well as keeping his present staff.

That explains a lot. Conference have been far too tolerant of large churches like this that really are UMC in name only. In the long run most of them don't pay much of their apportionment and they cause more headaches than they are worth.
 
Upvote 0

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
10,927
5,591
49
The Wild West
✟461,572.00
Country
United States
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
I'll say it again. When I was UMC, folks going elsewhere largely ended up in non-denoms. If I were a betting man, I think non-denoms will be the single biggest winner in a UMC schism.

About every little town with at least one 4-way stop sign has a Methodist Church and some flavor of non-denom. If they are a big enough for a stoplight, then you can add a Baptist church to that. Geography is the major problem with saying other church types will benefit most, IMHO, not theology.

And every mid sized American city has an Episcopalian and a Roman Catholic cathedral. Large cities also have Orthodox cathedrals.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
10,927
5,591
49
The Wild West
✟461,572.00
Country
United States
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
I still recall that famous admonition from John Wesley, "If the Methodists leave the Church (Church of England), God will leave the Methodists."

Wasn’t that admonition to the British Methodists? Because after the Peace of Paris, when the hierarchy of the Church of England basically disowned their parishes that were now in the US, it created a chaotic situation where Wesley had to ordain Bishop Coke, because he had no idea what would happen on the Episcopalian side, or if Bishop Sebring could be ordained, and the first two or three years of the Protestant Episcopal Church were pretty chaotic; the Methodist Episcopal Church also had teething problems, to be fair, but my point is that Wesley was not in a position to be able to coordinate with the future Episcopal church.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Methodized
Upvote 0