Where to look for genuine ecumenism

[Michie]

Where to look for genuine ecumenism?” — Guest Article by Eastern Orthodox Theologian​

PETER KWASNIEWSKI




NLM is grateful to Bishop Athanasius Schneider for giving us permission to publish this English translation of the following essay, written by a theologian with whom he is in friendly contact. It goes without saying that we do not endorse some of the ecclesiological claims contained herein, but the perspective is one that NLM is broadly sympathetic with. —PAK

“Where to look for genuine ecumenism?”
A reflection on the Roman Catholic Church’s liturgical reforms in an ecumenical perspective

Alexander Adomenas, Master of Theology

“That they may all be one” (John 17, 21)—these words of our Divine Teacher have been resounding with pain in the hearts of Christians for many centuries. Unfortunately, we did not fulfill the commandment of our Lord and were divided. The twentieth century showed that it is now the time, according to the word of Ecclesiastes, to “gather stones” (3, 5), the stones we Christians have scattered for twenty centuries. The holy Pope Gregory the Great (who in the East bears the name Dialogos) explains these words as follows: “The more the end of the world approaches, the more necessary it is that living stones be gathered for a heavenly building, until the building of our Jerusalem reaches its measure.” [1]For St. Gregory, “gathering stones” means gathering the people into the one Church of Christ.

However, we are well aware that one can “gather stones” in different ways, and, by trying to take up everything, one can be overburdened by their weight and lose even what one has collected. This article in the form of a reflection is a modest attempt by an Orthodox theologian to think about what path can be chosen for this “gathering of stones.”

The history of relations between Catholicism and Orthodoxy, unfortunately, is very sad. Mutual accusations, divergence at times in petty issues—all this happened. I will not give a theological assessment of these disagreements and centuries-old disputes.

Let me just say that what unites us is much more than what divides us. And now is precisely the time when, in the face of the ever-increasing secularization of mankind and the challenges the modern world poses to believers, we must find common ground so that everyone knows that we are disciples of Christ—Love Incarnate (cf. John 13, 35).

Over the past one hundred years, this attempt to reconcile Orthodoxy and Catholicism has received the name of the “ecumenical movement.” Many models of dialogue within this movement have been proposed, but all of them, unfortunately, have either reached or are reaching a dead end. The problem, in my opinion, is the wrong approach to the problem as such. Or rather, there is no core around which a dialogue can be built. And it seems to me that the ideal solution here is to appeal to a common heritage: the living history of the Church in the Holy Spirit.

Continued below.

“Where to look for genuine ecumenism?” — Guest Article by Eastern Orthodox Theologian

Sacred liturgy and liturgical arts. Liturgical history and theology. The movements for the Usus Antiquior and Reform of the Reform.

www.newliturgicalmovement.org

 

[WarriorAngel]

I've been praying and offering up Mass for many years.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Where to look for genuine ecumenism?” — Guest Article by Eastern Orthodox Theologian​

PETER KWASNIEWSKI




NLM is grateful to Bishop Athanasius Schneider for giving us permission to publish this English translation of the following essay, written by a theologian with whom he is in friendly contact. It goes without saying that we do not endorse some of the ecclesiological claims contained herein, but the perspective is one that NLM is broadly sympathetic with. —PAK

“Where to look for genuine ecumenism?”
A reflection on the Roman Catholic Church’s liturgical reforms in an ecumenical perspective

Alexander Adomenas, Master of Theology

“That they may all be one” (John 17, 21)—these words of our Divine Teacher have been resounding with pain in the hearts of Christians for many centuries. Unfortunately, we did not fulfill the commandment of our Lord and were divided. The twentieth century showed that it is now the time, according to the word of Ecclesiastes, to “gather stones” (3, 5), the stones we Christians have scattered for twenty centuries. The holy Pope Gregory the Great (who in the East bears the name Dialogos) explains these words as follows: “The more the end of the world approaches, the more necessary it is that living stones be gathered for a heavenly building, until the building of our Jerusalem reaches its measure.” [1]For St. Gregory, “gathering stones” means gathering the people into the one Church of Christ.

However, we are well aware that one can “gather stones” in different ways, and, by trying to take up everything, one can be overburdened by their weight and lose even what one has collected. This article in the form of a reflection is a modest attempt by an Orthodox theologian to think about what path can be chosen for this “gathering of stones.”

The history of relations between Catholicism and Orthodoxy, unfortunately, is very sad. Mutual accusations, divergence at times in petty issues—all this happened. I will not give a theological assessment of these disagreements and centuries-old disputes.

Let me just say that what unites us is much more than what divides us. And now is precisely the time when, in the face of the ever-increasing secularization of mankind and the challenges the modern world poses to believers, we must find common ground so that everyone knows that we are disciples of Christ—Love Incarnate (cf. John 13, 35).

Over the past one hundred years, this attempt to reconcile Orthodoxy and Catholicism has received the name of the “ecumenical movement.” Many models of dialogue within this movement have been proposed, but all of them, unfortunately, have either reached or are reaching a dead end. The problem, in my opinion, is the wrong approach to the problem as such. Or rather, there is no core around which a dialogue can be built. And it seems to me that the ideal solution here is to appeal to a common heritage: the living history of the Church in the Holy Spirit.

Continued below.

“Where to look for genuine ecumenism?” — Guest Article by Eastern Orthodox Theologian

Sacred liturgy and liturgical arts. Liturgical history and theology. The movements for the Usus Antiquior and Reform of the Reform.

www.newliturgicalmovement.org

While I generally agree with the article I have to raise one concern. The author makes a big deal about how Catholics have not wanted to pursue ecumenism with the Orthodox. I think the opposite has been generally the case. How many Catholics did not want unity with the Orthodox? Maybe a few in the LGBTQWERTY crowd pushing for the full monty. Or the women's ordination crowd that would see unity as the end of their hopes. Most normal Catholics wanted unity with the Orthodox. Pope John Paul II longed for it. But he was put off, not by Catholics but by the Orthodox.

This could have been done decades ago if the Orthodox had wanted it. We needed them and they needed us. We still need them and they still need us, now more than ever, whether they think so or not.

Now you might say that pope Francis has made Orthodox-Catholic relations worse, and maybe so. That 'synodality' is making things even worse, though it's too soon to really know. That Catholics seeking unity with Protestants was naive, which seems to be the case considering most such efforts have failed and made our liturgy worse rather than better. But the Orthodox had a willing participant in John Paul II and they let it slide. Now this guy says it's because the Catholics were not interested. On that one point I'm calling 'foul'.

If the Orthodox want ecumenism with Catholics the Orthodox need to get their ducks in a row/ Yes, we Catholics will need to rearrange our ducks too now after pope Francis and his 'synodality'. But IF this guy speaks for Orthodoxy they need to show that they mean it. I suspect he does not speak for Orthodoxy, but just a few Orthodox. Somebody show me where I'm wrong.

 

[WarriorAngel]

While I generally agree with the article I have to raise one concern. The author makes a big deal about how Catholics have not wanted to pursue ecumenism with the Orthodox. I think the opposite has been generally the case. How many Catholics did not want unity with the Orthodox? Maybe a few in the LGBTQWERTY crowd pushing for the full monty. Or the women's ordination crowd that would see unity as the end of their hopes. Most normal Catholics wanted unity with the Orthodox. Pope John Paul II longed for it. But he was put off, not by Catholics but by the Orthodox.

[/QUOTE]
Truth. It is not the laity of Catholics or the clergy.

I recently talked briefly to a lay person of a neighboring Orthodox Church trying to get folks to come eat at their food funding. I mentioned reunification and he seemed put off.

I also mentioned this to their former priest [who was moved] and he was a Protestant convert against it.

This could have been done decades ago if the Orthodox had wanted it. We needed them and they needed us. We still need them and they still need us, now more than ever, whether they think so or not.

Now you might say that pope Francis has made Orthodox-Catholic relations worse, and maybe so. That 'synodality' is making things even worse, though it's too soon to really know. That Catholics seeking unity with Protestants was naive, which seems to be the case considering most such efforts have failed and made our liturgy worse rather than better. But the Orthodox had a willing participant in John Paul II and they let it slide. Now this guy says it's because the Catholics were not interested. On that one point I'm calling 'foul'.

If the Orthodox want ecumenism with Catholics the Orthodox need to get their ducks in a row/ Yes, we Catholics will need to rearrange our ducks too now after pope Francis and his 'synodality'. But IF this guy speaks for Orthodoxy they need to show that they mean it. I suspect he does not speak for Orthodoxy, but just a few Orthodox. Somebody show me where I'm wrong.

In history the closest we got in the 1400's was due to war.
In crisis they want to join again.

In the end times they will, it could be because the crisis.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I recently talked briefly to a lay person of a neighboring Orthodox Church trying to get folks to come eat at their food funding. I mentioned reunification and he seemed put off.

That is the impression I get. They're right. We're wrong on everything. They want nothing to do with us. OK. I see tiny evidences to the contrary. I want this particular Orthodox theologian to continue on in seeking unity with Catholics but I fear he is in the minority.

I used to hope for reconciliation within my lifetime. But now when I have to think about buying bananas that are too green I have to admit that I'm not going to see it before I die.