Where the Spirit flows...

[JewishHeart]

I was reading today Shmot Lamed Gimel ( Exodus 33) and the story of Moshe interceeding for Am Yisrael. Moshe said that if your Panim ( face,presence) doesn't go with us, we will not go up from here. Moshe knew what was important, the presence and Shekina of יהוה . Earlier in the chapter, Moshe went into the tent of meeting ( I call it the tent of intamacy and holiness) and after he left the Torah makes sure to mention that his young aid Yehoshua stayed at the entrance of the tent ( basking in the shekina).

Later I read Dvrai Hayamim Bet Tsion ( 2 Chronicles 7) when the priests dedicated Solomon's temple and were not able to stand because of the cloud of shekina.

I then remembered Adam walking with יהוה in the cool of the evening in Bereshit. What glory, what intamacy !!!!! This is the purpose of Torah !

Last of all in 2 Corinthians when Paul mentions about Moshe's fading glory and in the New Covenant the ever increasing and great glory !!! It ends with ," and where the Lord is the Spirit and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty."

From Adam in Bereshit to Yochanon ( John) in Hitgalut ( Revalation) it starts with experiencing יהוה and ends with experiencing יהוה .

In Hebrew this is called a "Chavaya" with Elohim.

This is what was expressed with Yeshua, the greatest Chavaya (experience Ben Adam (mankind) has ever had with Adonai.


WHile the Prushim were arguing about how to obey Torah, the simple sinners, prostitutes, tax collectors, and goy law-breakers ( the woman with the issue of blood, probably not a noachcide) were experiencing Adonai Panim al Panim ( face to face).

The Prushim were upset with Yeshua hanging out with sinners and tax-collectors ( sounds much like messianics not hanging out with non-noahcide christians) , while it was the Torah-breakers who were experiencing the living Torah firsthand.


Let us not get caught up in the way of the Prushim.

"Knowledge Puffs Up, But Love Builds Up." - 1 Corinthians 8

 

[JewishHeart]

I wanted to end with asking the Ruach HaKodesh to fill every person anew with the kindle of aish from the Shavuot after the Tkiya ( ressurection). May it bolden you and strengthen you to preach the bissurah (gospel). May you experience intamacy with the Father Heart of God, and His burning passion and purpose for you.

 

[Henaynei]

I was reading today Shmot Lamed Gimel ( Exodus 33) and the story of Moshe interceeding for Am Yisrael. Moshe said that if your Panim ( face,presence) doesn't go with us, we will not go up from here. Moshe knew what was important, the presence and Shekina of יהוה . Earlier in the chapter, Moshe went into the tent of meeting ( I call it the tent of intamacy and holiness) and after he left the Torah makes sure to mention that his young aid Yehoshua stayed at the entrance of the tent ( basking in the shekina).

Later I read Dvrai Hayamim Bet Tsion ( 2 Chronicles 7) when the priests dedicated Solomon's temple and were not able to stand because of the cloud of shekina.

I then remembered Adam walking with יהוה in the cool of the evening in Bereshit. What glory, what intamacy !!!!! This is the purpose of Torah !

Last of all in 2 Corinthians when Paul mentions about Moshe's fading glory and in the New Covenant the ever increasing and great glory !!! It ends with ," and where the Lord is the Spirit and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty."

From Adam in Bereshit to Yochanon ( John) in Hitgalut ( Revalation) it starts with experiencing יהוה and ends with experiencing יהוה .

In Hebrew this is called a "Chavaya" with Elohim.

This is what was expressed with Yeshua, the greatest Chavaya (experience Ben Adam (mankind) has ever had with Adonai.


WHile the Prushim were arguing about how to obey Torah, the simple sinners, prostitutes, tax collectors, and goy law-breakers ( the woman with the issue of blood, probably not a noachcide) were experiencing Adonai Panim al Panim ( face to face).

The Prushim were upset with Yeshua hanging out with sinners and tax-collectors ( sounds much like messianics not hanging out with non-noahcide christians) , while it was the Torah-breakers who were experiencing the living Torah firsthand.


Let us not get caught up in the way of the Prushim.

"Knowledge Puffs Up, But Love Builds Up." - 1 Corinthians 8

LOL - honestly - it really is they who don't want to hang with me - they judge me for bringing my own kosher food, or if I can't join them at the deli on Shabbat. I am not supposed to judge them for their lack of obedience to scripture and G-d's instructions, yet they judge me for my obedience. If I can't go to the restrauant they want to go to and eat treif off the menu (or bring my own food) they are unwilling to come up with, or join me in a more mutually acceptable situation.

They see my liberty as bondage.

 

[JewishHeart]

Heynanei,

I am sorry to here you are treated that way by innocently ignorant christians. On their part, they should read 1 Corinthians 8 and learn how to respect your decision to follow a Torah-based lifestyle. As long as you don't stare at them glaringly for eating pork on your behalf. From both sides, 1 Corinthians 8 and Romans 14 should be the rule.

 

[JewishHeart]

By the way, even though I admit adding that last part about the Prushim and tax-collectors, lets return to a discussion on this thread about experiencing God.

 

[Henaynei]

Heynanei,

I am sorry to here you are treated that way by innocently ignorant christians. On their part, they should read 1 Corinthians 8 and learn how to respect your decision to follow a Torah-based lifestyle. As long as you don't stare at them glaringly for eating pork on your behalf. From both sides, 1 Corinthians 8 and Romans 14 should be the rule.

you assume too much, they were ignorant, but they were not innocent. They know where and on what basis I stand. Theirs is arrogance, not innocence.

As HaShem commands, they are forgiven. Every time

 

[Henaynei]

By the way, even though I admit adding that last part about the Prushim and tax-collectors, lets return to a discussion on this thread about experiencing God.

So I understand more clearly your frame of thought.....

Please define what YOU mean by "experiencing G-d?"

 

[koilias]

I then remembered Adam walking with יהוה in the cool of the evening in Bereshit. What glory, what intamacy !!!!! This is the purpose of Torah !

I too share this joy with you, AHi. Tell you a beautiful story from the book of YoHanan. The Rabbis say that on the tenth hour of the sixth day, HaShem was walking in Gan Eden and he called out to Adam and Havah, "Where are you?", for they were hiding from him because their eyes had been opened that hour and they had beheld their nakedness.

In the cool of another day, two of YoHanan's disciples spy Jesus walking and they follow him. "What do you seek?", He says to them.

They say "Rabbi, where are you staying?"

"Come and YOU WILL SEE!"

And they stayed with him, for it was about the tenth hour...

And so they saw the kingdom of HaShem, beautiful in their eyes, and ate the fruit of etz haHayim.

WHile the Prushim were arguing about how to obey Torah, the simple sinners, prostitutes, tax collectors, and goy law-breakers ( the woman with the issue of blood, probably not a noachcide) were experiencing Adonai Panim al Panim ( face to face).

The Prushim were upset with Yeshua hanging out with sinners and tax-collectors ( sounds much like messianics not hanging out with non-noahcide christians) , while it was the Torah-breakers who were experiencing the living Torah firsthand.


Let us not get caught up in the way of the Prushim.

"Knowledge Puffs Up, But Love Builds Up." - 1 Corinthians 8

Rabbi Eleazar ben Azariah gave this parable:

"Every person whose learning exceeds his or her deeds, what does this person resemble? A tree whose branches are dense but roots are sparse. A wind comes, and uprooting the tree, turns it upside down. But every person whose deeds exceed his or her learning, what does this person resemble? A tree whose branches are sparse but roots are dense. Even if every type of wind were to come against this tree, it would not move the tree from its place."

The parable above is the parable Yeshua told with a different analogy: the man who built his house on sand, (only studies Torah, but doesn't do it) and the man who built his house on rock (he both studies the Torah and he does it).

Yeshua was aware that those with sparse branches would have denser roots than visible branches. So he hung out with tax collectors and sinners. Where knowledgable Pharisees saw fallow fields, Yeshua saw deep roots. This is why he hung out with them. Because he saw their potential. This is why he said that the Kingdom of HaShem belonged to the destitute in spirit. Because those who think less of their knowledge are more apt to do more. Have you ever noticed that the people who are the most gung-ho about sharing the Kingdom of HaShem to others are quite often the very ones who were once destitute without it? And yet how those who grew up in the Kingdom quite often aren't on fire at all, yet feel proud of their knowledge of it?

Don't forget, AHi, that the point of it all is to keep the Torah...Yeshua's purpose was to set them on fire for the Torah...that's the kingdom of HaShem: Doing the will of HaShem.

Not just studying it.

 

[simchat_torah]

am sorry to here you are treated that way by innocently ignorant christians.

nonsense.

Most are not ignorant, and none are innocent in their ignorance. See II Sam. 6

 

[simchat_torah]

( sounds much like messianics not hanging out with non-noahcide christians)

Can we stop with the coy comments? I said I wouldn't place myself under their authority. The overwhelming majority of my friends are goy christians. The best man at my wedding is a nice christian man who goes to princeton for his master's of divinity.

I haven't heard of messianics who refuse to have relationships with goy (and non-noachide ones at that). The only thing presented to you at this forum is that some of us (myself included) aren't willing to place ourselves under non-observant authority.

This kind of talk is getting really really old.

 

[Hix]

Most christians see messianics living the Torah as being a threat to christianity. They think we somehow try to upstage them, by doing what G-d wants us to do, if you will. The trinitarian and the oneness pentecostal denominations for example have officially stated that any christian following the "old/insignificant covenant" is insulting Yeshua and in danger of sin. Which is infact, a complete polar opposite of what Yeshua truely wanted and came for. Yeshua came to promote Torah to the Jews and to heal those sick and outside the Sinai covenant.

Regardless, I would have to agree that most are NOT ignorant. And yes I think its not nice the way you keep dropping subtle hints about us hanging out with non-noachide goy. Alot of my friends are such and im nearly 100% sure my mother isnt B'nei Noach, I dont take them as role models becuase they are not faithfull to the few small things HaShem requests of us, but being friends etc is no problem.

Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~

 

[simchat_torah]

heh, yeah... i forgot, so is most of my family.