Where, or WHERE is the joy???

[pathtotheking]

Spouses struggling with pornography. People struggling with drinking to calm their nerves. People who give up going to church because they feel spiritually dead.

WHERE IS THE VICTORY? IS ALL THE STUFF I'M WATCHING ON CHRISTIAN T.V. A BUNCH OF HOOEY??? Is Joyce Meyer the only one walking so victoriously after years of living in the pits? Are the big-time Christian ministries run by the few who have MORE victory than those of us who struggle?

And from what I read on lots of Christian forums, a lot of us are just struggling and surviving one day at a time. Victory? No. Stinky? Yes!

I'm starting to feel as if I read my Bible, study my Bible, memorize verses, attend church, tithe, and do my best to make Jesus number one in my life.

But if we make Jesus number one in our lives, why are so many of us struggling, miserable, hurting, confused, etc???

Is it because we are in the end times? Are we just weak and in need of online/cyberspace support? Are the Christians who are living relatively victorious lives somewhere else other than cyberspace?????

I'm on a number of boards - Christian, codependency, Al-anon, etc. Maybe it's time to get off of boards and connect face-to-face with other people.

This is just my opinion; I am NOT judging what anyone choses to use boards for edification. But the longer I'm on various boards - for almost eight years - I'm begining to see I have less and less of an authentic life and more "cyber-friends."

I don't think God intended me to type to faceless people I will probably never meet as an avenue to fulfillment. Again ... JUST MY OPINION. I AM NOT SAYING THIS TO JUDGE OR PUT-DOWN ANYBODY WHO FEELS LED TO BE HERE.

I just no longer feel authentic. I have cyber-buddies. We type private messages and emails to one another. What type of life is that? I think God is telling me something. And I don't mean to put anybody down here. I know there are well-meaning Christians here.

Maybe I'm just burned out on this whole Internet thing. It seems to have taken over our lives. And I don't know if that is a necessarily good thing....

 

[BobW188]

It isn't. It breeds exactly what you are talking about, a bunch of exchanges between people - yes, sometimes very helpful and meaningful - but without any real commitment and usually without the vaguest idea of what the other person even looks like. And if it gets too heavy, you just push "Unsubscribe" and walk away. Or, (and this happens in a lot of marriages), it lets you "talk" to strangers and not have to deal with that annoying spouse and kids.
You don't have to give it up but, yes, get some more face-to-face in your life to balance it out. Your church might have some opportunities and ideas. As to joy, well, I'm afraid we're not all Francis of Asisi and, yes, the televangelists tend to be off in a dream world funded by other people's money. (Didn't I hear recently that Joyce Meyer has drawn the attention of the IRS? One wonders how joyful her life really is. There are good televangelists, but my personal opinion is that most would do better to believe less in themselves, more in God.
Hang in there. It's a good life, hard as that may be to believe sometimes.

 

[UnitynLove]

I think people don't experience the victory they are supposed to experience because of several reasons

1. Lack of obedience
2. Lack of Love
3. Selfishness
4. Lack of dedication to reading the word

 

[ALIOSIAS]

I agree with your analysis of the dehumanizing of the Christian Life through a ministry of "cyber-buddies". This is just another downward step for the Laodicean church.

I guess there is nothing anyone can do to help you if you are not willing to start involving yourself in Church and participating in the hopes and dreams of other believers and are unwilling do disciple anyone in their spiritual walk (If you don't know how to do this you could learn how).

Their is freedom in Christ Jesus; you have all the tools if you are a born again believer; all you have to do is start acting on your inheritance in Christ and learning to love everyone.

You can't help anyone if you don't love everyone.

 

[pathtotheking]

I was involved in my church. I volunteered for a number of opportunities. I was willing to serve. It was the largest church in a town of approximately 120,000. Some of the families there had been attending for three generations.

It was rather clicky. People were polite, but distant. Nobody wanted to forge lasting relationships. Also, it was pretty much, "we're praying for you .... just don't call us on the phone if you're hurting .... we're busy."

I don't think it was all me. Sorry, but you are drawing conclusions based on no information, Aliosios. And that is just the type of cyber people I would rather avoid.

You have NO idea what ministries I am involved in. You have no idea of my life's circumstances. Yet you have drawn a conclusion that I'm not walking in love.

Sigh. This is why I'm getting more discouraged and downright disillusioned by the entire cyberspace experience.

And, P.S. - FYI I WAS INVOLVED IN MY CHURCH. Again, drawing information from something you know nothing whatsoever about.

 

[kathyA]

First of all, let me say that you are the church, I am the church....every one who claims that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savor is the church. We are the church on the computer, in the line at Walmart, as we walk our dog in our neighborhood....we are the church. Opportunities abound to share the love of Christ and the gospel of the good news everyday...where ever you are where ever you go...As for the struggle....it seems to me that scripture says that Jesus was a man of sorrow and acquainted with grief. If we desire to be like him, should we not expect to have sorrow and grief. Read your scripture. Where does it say that we will all be healthy multi millionaires. No, it says that we will share in His suffering...the church has done a very poor job in sharing the true Gospel...the one where narrow is the road and few are those who follow it....In this world YOU WILL HAVE TRIBULATION....not maybe or could happen...you will have struggles, and sorrows and grief....but rejoice, for that is the price we pay, to be like Jesus. So, my cyberfriend...go out into the world and be the hands of Jesus, and the feet of Jesus and the voice of Jesus....opportunities abound...all God is looking for is a willing vessel.

 

[pathtotheking]

Read your scripture. Where does it say that we will all be healthy multi millionaires.

Excuse me, but HUH? Guess I'm a bit confused. I don't recall anyone mentioning a guarantee of health, wealth, or lack of problems ....

 

[elliotps932]

where, oh where is the joy?

 

[pathtotheking]

where, oh where is the joy?

Sorry, but again, "huh"? The joy is in the Lord and loving him. This is what I mean by cyberspace. Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean.

Your response is ambiguous. I can't "hear" a tone of voice, I can't "see" a facial expression. Just six words. Not particularly edifying ....

 

[annrobert]

Pathtotheking,
I do not think Aliosias meant to draw wrong conclusions,as it could sound like much of your life was centered on internet based on your saying that you were involved in various boards for 8 years,that it left you feeling not authentic,that you were burned out on it,that maybe it is time to get off the boards and connect with people face to face,that maybe God is trying to tell you something,and that it seems to have taken over your life and is maybe not a good thing.Especially based on your saying that maybe it is time to get off the boards and connect with people face to face could have lead him to think you needed to get involved with other things.I noticed you wrote you Were involved in your church,(past tense) and Were willing to serve(past tense).I was wondering if you meant it as past tense or not.I understand it is painful when people in church are clicky and distant.You said people would say they were praying for you,just do not call us if you are hurting....we are busy.This sounds as though you are hurting,are you hurting?Is there something you need to talk about or want prayer for?If so maybe you have to be really clear and let people know, that you are hurting and need to talk or need someone to pray with you and encourage you.If you are subtle about it or mention some people need prayer,people may not realize you need help.It might be hard to do if you are used to being healthy and strong on your own,yet if you are hurting and need help ,you may need to say it directly.If you have made it clear you need some help,encouragement,counselling or advice or someone to pray with,and have been turned down,you may have to not give up and check out some other churches that may be willing to help.Also if absolutely no one at this church is willing to form a friendship with you and you are lonely you may need to find someone to make a friendship with someone from another church.I think every church has some people in them that are lonely and needing a friend ,and that are needing encouragement and someone to confide in or pray with them.May you could be a friend to them and encourage them and pray with them and spend time with them.Maybe you already are.Or maybe right now you are feeling too broken and need that encouragement yourself.Maybe if you are hurting you could find a christian counsellor to help too ,just for an idea.No, we do not know what ministries you are involved in or your life experiences.Maybe you would like to share.You do hint that you are hurting and you do not sound fulfilled or satisfied with life.You sound like you want friends and the people at church are not willing.You sound like you are hurting and people are turning you away.And that must hurt.There must be some christians somewhere in your town who would be willing to become a friend or pray with you.However I realize that if you are really broken and troubled few people want to get involved.However after much searching for over two years I found a christian counsellor who cares and is trying to help me and is very genuine in her love.Many christians are struggling and hurting themselves,and need help,and those who are stronger should help the weak.There are many christians who love and care,just sometimes if someone is really broken ,it is very hard to find help. I do not think people are assuming you are not walking in love.I wonder if you are struggling and want help ,but not sure how to reach out.If this is so ,consider openly seeking help,and not giving up til you find it.Jesus is always willing to listen to our troubles when we tell Him what we feel,what we are struggling with and need help with,and tell Him our most intimate thoughts and spend time alone with Him worshipping Him.I know you know this ,but sometimes it is nice to hear it.Jesus wants us to obey Him yet He does not want us to forget about His grace and that we obey Him out of love .You ask where the joy is,and I know that one of the fruits of the Spirit is Joy.For a long time now I have not had joy or peace,infact I have gone through extreme pain and torment.I do think christians are supposed to have love joy peace,longsuffering etc.I do think Christians are supposed to have a deep joy and peace even in the midst of suffering,trials and sorrows that the world cannot take away.I understand what you are saying about that I think.I do think many christians do have a deep inner peace and joy in the midst of sorrows ,trials and suffering ,maybe they are taking all their sorrows and problems to Jesus in prayer and trust ,and receiving that rest Jesus promises,come to Me all ye that labour and are heavy laden and I will give you rest,take my yoke upon you and learn of Me for I Am meek and lowly of heart and ye shall find rest for your souls.Maybe they are able to trust in Jesus grace and are able to focus on their eternity with Jesus more than concentrating on this present life.Maybe some christians are going through a dry period or what some people call the dark night of the soul and need to persevere through it.Life is not always perfect and without pain for christians.We struggle.Anyways many christians are enjoying peace and joy ,even while going through trials ,and sorrows.I do not think all christians are spending enormous amounts of time on the internet,some maybe do ,but many do not,many just spend a disciplined amount of time to pray for and encourage other christians or to ask for prayer and encouragement for themsleves and some fellowship.Yet their family life and the rest of their life is not compromised.Jesus suffered,due to His own people He created to love and be loved by Him rejecting Him,betraying Him,not believing in Him or trusting Him or wanting Him,they betrayed Him ,hated Him,told lies about Him ,put Him down,and would not come to Him .He said Jerusalem,Jerusalem ,how I have longed to take you under My wings as a mother hen does her chicks,but ye would not.He said I am the Life but you will not come to me because I testify that your deeds are evil.Jesus own people He created received Him not.Jesus suffered persecution by His creation,despite dying for them ,healing them,loving them etc,Jesus did not suffer because of anything He did wrong.Jesus regularly went alone to pray.When christians suffer because of serving others in love,obeying Jesus,loving Jesus,meeting peoples needs,praying for people,not being to busy to help people,being a light,visiting the sick and helping the least of these,being the good samaritan,when they suffer for these reasons, I think they have an inner joy and peace ,regardless of their suffering ,whether their suffering is from persecution,or sickness ,or grief ,I think they they have an inner peace from Jesus. Christians also suffer because of simply being in a sinful world .Some christians have fallen into sin and brought painful consequences on themselves,yet Jesus is able to heal from that and forgives ,He is able to save to the uttermost.Some have gone through abuse and suffer, still the answer is to hope in Jesus.The devil comes to kill steal and destroy and christians suffer,yet our Saviour Jesus is the Wonderful Counsellor and the Prince of Peace.I have been long winded yet the question where is the joy is something I have wondered about and so I got thinking about it.Jesus Bless You
annrobert

 

[Johnnz]

Read Paul's letters. Seems that there were just as many issues then as now.

Beneath that though there are some really big issues. Go to a good Christian bookstore. There are Christians who are really rethinking about what an authentic Jesus and an authentic church might look like, rather than the somewhat handed down versions most of us have been exposed to.

John
NZ

 

[annrobert]

Quote"
Spouses struggling with pornography. People struggling with drinking to calm their nerves. People who give up going to church because they feel spiritually dead.

WHERE IS THE VICTORY? IS ALL THE STUFF I'M WATCHING ON CHRISTIAN T.V. A BUNCH OF HOOEY??? Is Joyce Meyer the only one walking so victoriously after years of living in the pits? Are the big-time Christian ministries run by the few who have MORE victory than those of us who struggle?"

No Joyce Meyer is not the only christian living victoriously.Many many christians are
living victoriously.We do not know whether or not christians on tv are living without trials or sorrows.We do not know how much joy they have.Sometimes they fall too.Maybe the stuff on tv needs to get more realistic.Maybe they need to teach more about love and forgiveness and visiting the sick and the good samaritan and going the extra mile and not just helping those who can help back,and not just loving those who can love back.Maybe they need to start teaching about doing unto the least of these my brethern and doing good to those who despitefully use you and feeding the poor without judging why they are poor.Maybe they need to teach about the beatitudes and having mercy and if someone ask for your coat give him your cloak also and if lending not expecting it back.For if we do good only to certain people how are we better than the unbelievers.Maybe they need to teach more on compassion,as Jesus was moved with compassion.Maybe they need to teach about esteeming others above ourselves.Maybe they need to teach about focusing on other peoples needs instead of just our own interests . I do not believe the big time ministries are more victorious than the rest of us.If there are 100 big time ministries and 100 average christians ,I bet just as many of the big time ministries stumble and fall at times as the average christian stumbles and falls.I bet just as many struggle, give into temptation to porn,drink to calm nerves and feel spirituall dead at times ,and sometimes drop out of ministry.The christians who fall or are wounded should be helped by those who are strong,as the strong may stumble in the future and need help themselves.We should comfort as we have been comforted.And the weak ones will become strong later.Many christians are living victorious and with joy,even if going through sorrow.God is able to make His servants stand even when they fall.Christians are overcomers.
annrobert

 

[Psalms34]

connect face-to-face with other people.

That's the key here, yes, you answered it yourself. Or maybe the Holy Spirit answered it for you, had you write that maybe. Sometimes comes from conviction. Don't confuse conviction with condemnation however, God doesn't condemn us. But conviction can be good, shows He loves us still. To help us get into the right place etc..

Little further though. Keeping in fellowship is vital, especially in this day. If you waver in that, you start to become spiritually dyslexic. Get in and enjoy worshiping the Lord with that crowd of fellow believers. Talk to those around you and make those connections so that you can get your mind off of your own problems. That really helps a ton... or to remove that ton you may feel actually. Don't put it off, get connected with a bible believing church

 

[iarwain]

Spouses struggling with pornography. People struggling with drinking to calm their nerves. People who give up going to church because they feel spiritually dead.

WHERE IS THE VICTORY? IS ALL THE STUFF I'M WATCHING ON CHRISTIAN T.V. A BUNCH OF HOOEY??? Is Joyce Meyer the only one walking so victoriously after years of living in the pits? Are the big-time Christian ministries run by the few who have MORE victory than those of us who struggle?

It sounds like you're frustrated with the world, and the sinful nature of man. I think that is why Jesus said we should hate our life. The good news is we have the grace of Christ, so we can/should depend on Him in all things. And that can be a great source of joy.

 

[UnitynLove]

I think the thing which causes many many many many Christians to go astray is simply, anger and offense. Remember what Paul said, be careful that no root of bitterness spring up in you and by it MANY become offended and led astray.

 

[janny108]

Part of the Christian life experience is learning how to be an overcomer, to walk out in your faith. It's easy to "knock" some preachers Tv or off, because people often don't want to do what having "victory" would require.
Yes I've done all those things like you and would wonder when I was going to be victorious but I had allowed things to crowd out Jesus, knowing now He is our sustainer and the one who helps us get thru things. Too often ppl run to other ppl, that's ok, but we need to run to God.

don't give up I know the devil likes to wear ppl down so they won't try anymore.
Jan

 

[janny108]

I think the thing which causes many many many many Christians to go astray is simply, anger and offense. Remember what Paul said, be careful that no root of bitterness spring up in you and by it MANY become offended and led astray.

Yeppers I was gonna say something like that. lol
Jan

 

[Johnnz]

There is a lot on unreality preached. Life is far too complex to be encompassed within catchy words such as 'overcomers, victorious, etc. Yes we are to be like that, but often that is through a process of learning, discovery, failures and real struggles. The Psalms are real - doubt, anger, questioning as well as trust and rejoicing. Many famous Christains have written of their dark times and lifelong issues. We need a big reality check in what we are taught is the normal christian life.

John
NZ

 

[RoseyK]

I find joy in the little things that God surrounds us with......a bird chirping in the morning, my dog licking my feet, watching children laugh and play.

Sometimes someone will come up to me and say something that makes me laugh at just the right time when I felt incrediably low.

I don't look for big things....when I do I get disappointed. God does provide lots of little things that give me joy and encouragement. When I get really low, I like to go to the beach and watch the ocean. A speaker years ago told me that when you see the ocean waves, think of God's grace washing over you.