Where is the line with "playing God"?

FrumiousBandersnatch · Aug 2, 2015

Could someone suggest an answer to the question that's been repeatedly ignored or evaded:

If the death of a baby guarantees its salvation, but that baby is not guaranteed to achieve salvation if it grows to be an adult, what is the argument you would use to dissuade someone who is careless of his own salvation and thinks killing babies is an altruistic act because they will benefit by being guaranteed a salvation they would not otherwise be guaranteed?

It's OK to say you don't know, or there probably isn't one, but if there is such a dissuasive argument, what is it?

joshua 1 9 · Aug 2, 2015

FrumiousBandersnatch said:
Could someone suggest an answer to the question that's been repeatedly ignored or evaded:

If the death of a baby guarantees its salvation, but that baby is not guaranteed to achieve salvation if it grows to be an adult, what is the argument you would use to dissuade someone who is careless of his own salvation and thinks killing babies is an altruistic act because they will benefit by being guaranteed a salvation they would not otherwise be guaranteed?

It's OK to say you don't know, or there probably isn't one, but if there is such a dissuasive argument, what is it?

We would pray for God to open their eyes of understanding so that they would be delivered from deception and abide in the truth.

DogmaHunter · Aug 2, 2015

joshua 1 9 said:
If you have found a life apart from God that your happy with than that is fine. For me a life without God is not a life worth living.

I agree that we need to make this life worth while. I am not sure if Paul in the Bible would agree. He wanted to sacrifice this life for the hope of eternal security and reward in the next life. If there is no heaven then the benefits I gain from my sacrifices in this life is worth the cost I pay.

This has again nothing whatsoever to do with the points that I'm raising.
Are you really not comprehending the point I'm making, or are you deliberatly avoiding responding to it?

DogmaHunter · Aug 2, 2015

joshua 1 9 said:
We would pray for God to open their eyes of understanding so that they would be delivered from deception and abide in the truth.

So, you have no argument against the actions of such people?

Your response is "praying"?

For realz?

bhsmte · Aug 2, 2015

joshua 1 9 said:
What is better for a child to be born into a Christian family or a non Christian?

It would depend on the family.

The advanced nations with the highest quality of living (low crime, low poverty, high education), have the fewest amount of christians.

joshua 1 9 · Aug 2, 2015

FrumiousBandersnatch said:
Could someone suggest an answer to the question that's been repeatedly ignored or evaded:

If the death of a baby guarantees its salvation, but that baby is not guaranteed to achieve salvation if it grows to be an adult, what is the argument you would use to dissuade someone who is careless of his own salvation and thinks killing babies is an altruistic act because they will benefit by being guaranteed a salvation they would not otherwise be guaranteed?

It's OK to say you don't know, or there probably isn't one, but if there is such a dissuasive argument, what is it?

It is not up to us to play God. He can look at their future and determine what is best. God is more then able to preserve us and to keep us alive if He feels that is best. Everyone has to be given the same opportunity. God does not favor one person over another. He is no respecter of persons.

joshua 1 9 · Aug 2, 2015

DogmaHunter said:
So, you have no argument against the actions of such people?

Your response is "praying"?

For realz?

Yes we pray because we have dominion:

Genesis 1:28 ESV /
And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

joshua 1 9 · Aug 2, 2015

DogmaHunter said:
This has again nothing whatsoever to do with the points that I'm raising.
Are you really not comprehending the point I'm making, or are you deliberatly avoiding responding to it?

If I have not provided an answer then at this point I must not know what the answer is that your looking for. But hang in there, my experience is that God will wait until we are ready to receive the answer. As I get older I figure things out that I wish I had understood better when I was younger.

joshua 1 9 · Aug 2, 2015

bhsmte said:
It would depend on the family.

The advanced nations with the highest quality of living (low crime, low poverty, high education), have the fewest amount of christians.

We are told that God has chosen the poor to be rich in faith. Most the poor people I know would not trade their faith for worldly riches. So who is poor and who is rich in what really matters?

Ecc6:2 a man to whom God has given riches and wealth and honor so that his soul lacks nothing of all that he desires; yet God has not empowered him to eat from them, for a foreigner enjoys them. This is vanity and a severe affliction. 3 If a man fathers a hundred children and lives many years, however many they be, but his soul is not satisfied with good things and he does not even have a proper burial, then I say, "Better the miscarriage than he, 4 for it comes in futility and goes into obscurity; and its name is covered in obscurity. 5"It never sees the sun and it never knows anything; it is better off than he.6"Even if the other man lives a thousand years twice and does not enjoy good things-- do not all go to one place?"

bhsmte · Aug 2, 2015

joshua 1 9 said:
We are told that God has chosen the poor to be rich in faith. Most the poor people I know would not trade their faith for worldly riches. So who is poor and who is rich in what really matters?

Ecc6:2 a man to whom God has given riches and wealth and honor so that his soul lacks nothing of all that he desires; yet God has not empowered him to eat from them, for a foreigner enjoys them. This is vanity and a severe affliction. 3 If a man fathers a hundred children and lives many years, however many they be, but his soul is not satisfied with good things and he does not even have a proper burial, then I say, "Better the miscarriage than he, 4 for it comes in futility and goes into obscurity; and its name is covered in obscurity. 5"It never sees the sun and it never knows anything; it is better off than he.6"Even if the other man lives a thousand years twice and does not enjoy good things-- do not all go to one place?"

I don't put a lot of credibility in scripture.

You can though.

DogmaHunter · Aug 2, 2015

joshua 1 9 said:
Yes we pray because we have dominion:

Genesis 1:28 ESV /
And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

It's like you're making a sport out of missing the point.

DogmaHunter · Aug 2, 2015

joshua 1 9 said:
If I have not provided an answer then at this point I must not know what the answer is that your looking for.

I thought I was quite clear about it, and others with me.

If you still haven't understood it, then I don't know what I must do or say to make you get it.

I mean, I dunno..... It seems so freakishly simple that I'm almost forced to think that you're playing dumb on purpose.

But hang in there, my experience is that God will wait until we are ready to receive the answer. As I get older I figure things out that I wish I had understood better when I was younger.

I'm asking YOU a question. Not the deity you believe exists.

FrumiousBandersnatch · Aug 2, 2015

joshua 1 9 said:
We would pray for God to open their eyes of understanding so that they would be delivered from deception and abide in the truth.

That's fine, but as it doesn't answer the question I'm inclined to take it as a "don't know"; telling a potential perp that you're going to pray for them isn't an argument to dissuade them from killing for what they see as the greater good...

I was expecting there to be some small print on the guarantee of salvation, an exclusion clause that would cover awkward cases like this - but I can't think of one that would be fair to the victims...

joshua 1 9 · Aug 2, 2015

FrumiousBandersnatch said:
That's fine, but as it doesn't answer the question I'm inclined to take it as a "don't know";

As I pointed out Solomon answers this in the book Ecclasiastes. In fact he deals with the whole issue of the fertility of life in general.

"Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity."

DogmaHunter · Aug 2, 2015

joshua 1 9 said:
As I pointed out Solomon answers this in the book Ecclasiastes. In fact he deals with the whole issue of the fertility of life in general.

"Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity."

This still doesn't address the point put forward. Not even by a longshot.

joshua 1 9 · Aug 2, 2015

DogmaHunter said:
This still doesn't address the point put forward. Not even by a longshot.

That is all I got right now. Good luck with finding the answers you are looking for.

FrumiousBandersnatch · Aug 2, 2015

joshua 1 9 said:
It is not up to us to play God. He can look at their future and determine what is best. ...

OK - I wouldn't call trying to talk someone of of committing an atrocity 'playing God'; but if you prefer prayer to persuasion that's your prerogative.

Loudmouth · Aug 3, 2015

FrumiousBandersnatch said:
Could someone suggest an answer to the question that's been repeatedly ignored or evaded:

If the death of a baby guarantees its salvation, but that baby is not guaranteed to achieve salvation if it grows to be an adult, what is the argument you would use to dissuade someone who is careless of his own salvation and thinks killing babies is an altruistic act because they will benefit by being guaranteed a salvation they would not otherwise be guaranteed?

It's OK to say you don't know, or there probably isn't one, but if there is such a dissuasive argument, what is it?

I still scratch my head when I see devout Christians who buckle their seatbelt or look both ways before crossing the street. If you really believe in the afterlife, why do they put so much effort in staying in this world? Why even go see a doctor?

AV1611VET · Aug 3, 2015

Loudmouth said:
I still scratch my head when I see devout Christians who buckle their seatbelt or look both ways before crossing the street.

And for the way they talk, I still scratch my head when I don't see empiricists petition their [alleged] parents for a DNA test.

Loudmouth · Aug 3, 2015

AV1611VET said:
And for the way they talk, I still scratch my head when I don't see empiricists petition their [alleged] parents for a DNA test.

You wouldn't need a DNA test to know who my grandfathers, fathers, and brothers were. All you need is a family photo.

Where is the line with "playing God"?

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