Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?

[jgr]

If artexerxes started his reign in 465 Bc, and gave the command to restore jerusalem in 445 bc, how did cyrus give a decree in 457BC when artexerxes was in power? Oh and anothe fact, he died in 530BC, how could give a command 70 years after he died?

You're using the secular and discredited Ptolemaic chronology, which is in error by 80 or more years. Use Anstey's instead.

 

[jgr]

When did messiah commit the abomination of desolation by placing an idol in the holy place in the middle of the 70th week?

Messiah's agents, the Roman armies, abominations to the Jews, advanced on the holy city of Jerusalem (Luke 21:20), destroying it into desolation, a generation after the 70th week.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Since I like to be fair and balanced, like FoxNews(lol), I did find the following article just now which argues against, and not for, that of Sir Robert Anderson in his book The Coming Prince.
https://www.neverthirsty.org/bible-...-the-correct-calculation-of-daniels-69-weeks/


Unfortunately I'm far from an expert in these type of things. At this point in time, until I maybe research these things more in-depth, it is difficult for me to judge which of the two articles I have submitted has the better date analysis arguments.

Thanks, i will try to take a look at it soon, and give a reply, this is how we should all be, tak all views, study, and determine with all facts the you think scripture supports, without going to outside sources,

That why i have changed many of my views i grew up with, and at one point fought withr my life to defend. (Huge mistake)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Messiah's agents, the Roman armies, abominations to the Jews, advanced on the holy city of Jerusalem (Luke 21:20), destroying it into desolation, a generation after the 70th week.

I see no abomination (unclean thing or idol) which makes desolate standing in the holy place in your reply,

Can you show me if i missed it?

 

[jgr]

Where is this found in scripture?

I already showed where cyrus only gave th command to rebuild the temple, when cyrus dies, they still had yet to rebuild the temple, darius had to confirm the command to restory syrus decree, to rebuild the temple. In no place was cyrus shown to give any command to restore the city

Why people ignore scripture is beyond me

The letter is an accepted historical document. If you have any credible evidence to discredit it, please provide said evidence.

 

[JLB777]

I love the GAP. I buy all my jeans there. But a GAP doesn't belong is Scripture.

... and the "weeks" are not "weeks". So please don't presume a ~490 year fulfillment.

Thanks,
DaDad

It’s 483 years (7 weeks and 62 weeks) plus the gap time from the going forth of the command to Messiah the Prince.

Cyrus conquered Babylon in 539 BC, realeasing the children of Israel in his first year of reign, 538 BC.

538 years before Christ, the command to restore and build Jerusalem was issued by Cyrus.



Do you understand what the phrase Messiah the Prince means?


Do you believe that from the command of Cyrus to restore Jerusalem to the Messiah was 483 days?


Is that what you believe?


Do you understand it took 46 years to rebuild the Temple itself?


JLB

 

[jgr]

I see no abomination (unclean thing or idol) which makes desolate standing in the holy place in your reply,

Can you show me if i missed it?

An inanimate idol does not make desolate. An invading army does. The Roman army invading the holy city of Jerusalem (the holy place) bore pagan symbols of their emperor deities, which were abominations to the Jews.

 

[A71]

My favourite bits so far are the exclusion of Paul from the canon, and the relegation of Isaiah to bit-part extra.

"Yeh man, like who are Saul of Tarsus and Isaiah man?"

Surely we can go one better?

"Daniel yeh. Interesting guy, but way out on the prophecies".

I guess being sawed in half in a log, thrown to a den of starving predators,
And being stoned by a mob of thousands of enraged homicidal lunatics just doesn't mean diddly-squat anymore

 

[DaDad]

It’s 483 years (7 weeks and 62 weeks) plus the gap time from the going forth of the command to Messiah the Prince. ...

The commentators certainly have poisoned the well. Here's the TRUTH:

“... Montgomery, for all of his scholarship and knowledge of the history of interpretation, ends up with no reasonable interpretation at all.”

“... as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’”

“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keil and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”

John Wolvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217-218 ​

Thus we know that the seventy "sevens" can be ANY number EXCEPT 490.

Thanks,
DaDad

 

[DaDad]

What?

Where is this in psalms? Your the one who said the boom was psalms, can you support your thought?

Book 19, prophetic for the 1900's, and Chapter 24 = 1924 ( per J.R. Church "Hidden Prophecies In The Psalms"), provides the "going forth of the word".

Did this not answer your question?

Thanks,
DaDad

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You're using the secular and discredited Ptolemaic chronology, which is in error by 80 or more years. Use Anstey's instead.

So i came to ad 32 but i am 80 years off?

Who is anstey that he got it right?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The decree of Cyrus is the correct starting point for the 70 weeks.

In 1913, Martin Anstey released "The Romance of Bible Chronology", which calculated dates based exclusively on the contents of Scripture. His date for Cyrus' decree was 454 BC. Other calculations using similar methodology have ranged up to 457 BC, an acceptable margin of variance.

Anstey's calculations also revealed the error in the secular Ptolemaic chronology, which some attempt to use.

Beginning dates of 457 - 454 BC place the beginning of the 70th week at 26 - 29 AD, with Christ's crucifixion at 29.5 - 32.5 AD. These dates are within generally accepted ranges.

With proper datings and methodologies, there are no issues in ascertaining the details of the 70 weeks.

So lets take 454 BC

454bc plus 476 years plus 1= 23 Ad,

It seems his line of thinking is seriously flawed.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You're using the secular and discredited Ptolemaic chronology, which is in error by 80 or more years. Use Anstey's instead.

So i came to ad 32 but i am 80 years off?

Who is Anstey that he got it right? When everyone else got it wrong?

The letter is an accepted historical document. If you have any credible evidence to discredit it, please provide said evidence.

So i put the words of man, not inspired, over the word of God, inspired, which shows otherwise.

Sorry i will take the word of god over the words of men 100% of the time

Thats the flaw with the roman view, (which is where amill cimes from) scripture means nothing.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It’s 483 years (7 weeks and 62 weeks) plus the gap time from the going forth of the command to Messiah the Prince.

Cyrus conquered Babylon in 539 BC, realeasing the children of Israel in his first year of reign, 538 BC.

538 years before Christ, the command to restore and build Jerusalem was issued by Cyrus.



Do you understand what the phrase Messiah the Prince means?


Do you believe that from the command of Cyrus to restore Jerusalem to the Messiah was 483 days?


Is that what you believe?


Do you understand it took 46 years to rebuild the Temple itself?


JLB

Cyrus never gave a command to restor the city, his command stated only the temple could be restored.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

An inanimate idol does not make desolate.

Jesus said otherwise, history proves otherwise,

Again, i will take jesus words words or scripture 100%

An invading army does. The Roman army invading the holy city of Jerusalem (the holy place) bore pagan symbols of their emperor deities, which were abominations to the Jews.

Jesus said we would see it standing, and gabriel said it would stand and be seen until the end

An army destroys a temple, it does not make it unclean

A temple destroyed is no temple at all

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Did this not answer your question?

Thanks,
DaDad

No,
I want chapter verse in psalms that says what jeremiah prophesied.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Since I like to be fair and balanced, like FoxNews(lol), I did find the following article just now which argues against, and not for, that of Sir Robert Anderson in his book The Coming Prince.
https://www.neverthirsty.org/bible-...-the-correct-calculation-of-daniels-69-weeks/


Unfortunately I'm far from an expert in these type of things. At this point in time, until I maybe research these things more in-depth, it is difficult for me to judge which of the two articles I have submitted has the better date analysis arguments.

I have read something like these in the past also.

I think what it shows is no matter what, artaxerxes command is the only command that not only allows rebuilding of city and walls, but fits the timeline of when messiah was introduced to his people, and when he was cut off.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You're using the secular and discredited Ptolemaic chronology, which is in error by 80 or more years. Use Anstey's instead.

Why because he fits your interpreation?

How about i let the word speak for itself?

 

[mkgal1]

CLANinja had asked this:

Simple solution to who will end the sacrifice: what new testament scripture states the antichrist or AOD will put and end to the sacrifice and offering?

here's several Scriptures in the OT, in the book of Daniel, oddly enough, that says just that.


Daniel 8:12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Daniel 12:11 clearly involves the end of the age. It is clearly referring to Daniel 11:31 for one. And if Daniel 12:11 involves the end of this age, then so must Daniel 11:31 involve the end of this age.




What I have done here is provided several passages, where the contexts involve both the ceasing of sacrifices, and an AOD. What your side then needs to do is this. Provide at least one context from the NT which supports your position

Those passages don't say the (pronoun) AOD or AntiChrist caused the sacrifices to cease (that's an interpretation - that's what's being argued but there's still no real support for the argument).

This is new to me as well, so I don't have a strong grasp on this....but what makes a lot of sense to me is that this isn't about a person (or an entity)....but instead, an action or behavior (I'm still wrestling, though).

When the Levitical law was laid out to the Israelites about the temple practices, it was all based on them being God's chosen people (Exodus 6:7). The prophecy of Daniel states that "seventy weeks have been determined concerning your people and your holy city".....and that ties in with Jesus cleansing the temple (going back to Leviticus 14:33-53). Take a look at Leviticus (I'm not going to quote it all right here):

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=leviticus+14:33-53&version=NRSV

I am of the belief this is the practice Jesus was following when He entered the temple the two different occasions (once in His early ministry -and again at the end of His life). He was acting as High Priest. The "abomination" or disease/corruption was that the religious leaders refused to acknowledge Him as Messiah (and even declared "there is no other god but Caesar" causing their once Holy City to be "desolate"....void of God's presence). An unclean and corrupt temple must be destroyed (as per Levitical law).

Leviticus 14: 43 ~ If the disease breaks out again in the house, after he has taken out the stones and scraped the house and plastered it, 44 the priest shall go and make inspection; if the disease has spread in the house, it is a spreading leprous disease in the house; it is unclean. 45 He shall have the house torn down, its stones and timber and all the plaster of the house, and taken outside the city to an unclean place.​

 

[BABerean2]

The way you are currently interpreting things though, you are obviously taking in the midst of the week to mean in the middle of it. Do you then think, based on that, that even He had died on the day that the 69th week ended, He would still rise in the midst of the 70th week, which would mean He rises 3.5 years after He dies? If that's not far-fetched, I don't know what is? If He dies at the end of the 69th week, this would clearly prove He can't be meant in verse 27 then, if the midst of the week is meaning 3.5 years into it.


I'm learning a lot around here though. Apparently Josephus: The Complete Works---must be holy writ, the fact those writings are being used in this thread, rather than Scripture, in order to allegedly prove certain events. I'm not saying you are doing that, but that these writings are being used in this thread, nonetheless, unless some of what has been posted can't be found on sites such as the following. https://www.ccel.org/ccel/josephus/complete.ii.xii.i.html --but can be found quoted in the Bible instead.

Josephus is regarded not as an inspired writer, but as a historian.
He has been accepted in this role for many years by Bible scholars, in the same way that a person who lived during the time of Abraham Lincoln might be a source of the history of that time period.

We do not throw away history books written about Lincoln, because the author was not a Christian.

The history of the Maccabees, which is found in the Catholic Bible, falls into the same category as the writings of Josephus. It is regarded as an accurate history of the events that happened to the Jewish people who lived during that time.

Christ was cut off "after" the 69th week, which would be during the 70th week.

Because 4 Passovers can be found in the Gospels, Bible scholars believe His earthly ministry lasted for about 3 1/2 years long. Therefore, He was cut off in the middle of the 70th week, which began at His baptism.

Based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, the 70th week was the time when the Gospel was taken to the Jewish people before Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles.

Based on Luke 21:24-28, and Romans 11:25, we are now in the times of the Gentiles.

Your Bible says the same thing.

.