Where is the Bride ?

[dan p]

I will tell RIGHT NOW that it not the Body of Christ. How can the Body of Christ ALSO BE the Bride at the same TIME ? iT CAN'T.

Lets look at 2 Cor 11:2. The words to be studied are husband and virgin.

1) The greek word for husband is ANER, which is one of 2 Greek words used in the Bible for man. The other word is ANTHROPOS . ANER can mean EITHER man or husband as the context implies. But, the idea of marriage is NOT even in the context of 2 Cor 11:2, so the right meaning is that of MAN , referring to Christ as a MAN.

2) The Body of Christ is referred to as a man in Ephesians 2:15 ; for to make in Himself of twain one NEW man, so making peace. The important thing to see here is that the MASCULINE GENDER is used for the Body of Christ and for Christ Himself. So it is obvious that the Body can not BE the BRIDE, since a bride would be in the FEMIMINE gender and the word of God does not teach a that there is a masculine BRIDE.

3) The Greek word for virgin is PARTHENOS , and is used of woman and men, and feminine is use is found in Matt 1:23, and is talking about Mary. The masculine use is found in Rev 14:4, where it talks about the 144,000 men that are called virgins.

4) The Greek word for espoused is HARMODZO and is only used once. It has 2 meaning ; TO JOIN , FIT TOGETHER , and 2 , TO BETROTH , TO GIVE ONE IN MARRIAGE.

5) The important thing is the tense of the verb. , it is in the simple past tense, middle voice, and first person singular. That means that translation can read, I myself have JOINED you. The middle voice is repesented by the word MYSELF. IF THE FUTURE TENSE HAD BEEN USED , then it could HAVE POINTED to a possible wedding event.

6) And accurate translation could be as ; For I am burning with zeal ( over ) you with A ZEAL of God , for I myself have joined you to one MAN to present a pure virgin to Christ. For we have been joined to Christ at the time of salvation, so there is no need for ANOTHER joining .

7) The gospels do use the terms and speak of a BRIDE and BRIDEGROOM, but is related to to the Nation of Israel , and the Old Testament , the 4 Gospels, and the book of the Revelation . These 2 words Bride and Bridegroom are found together in John 3:29, and this Old Testament ground.

8) The word PRESENT ? It is used about 14 times by Paul, BUT the parallel verse is found in Eph 5:27. That he might PRESENT it to Himself a glorious assembly . This is going to be a presentation ceremony of some kind in the future for the Body of Christ after the Rapture. The presentation of the Assembly to Christ is NOT A WEDDING CEREMONY.

9) The great mystery of Eph 5:32, is the fact that just as 2 can be joined together as one in the eyes of God, so the Assembly and Christ are also joined together as one in the eyes of God.

 

[Terral]

Hi Dan:

I can see what Dan sees, but we explain things much differently. Please allow me to go through your Opening Post and help explain things from another perspective:

I will tell [you] RIGHT NOW that it [cannot be] the Body of Christ. How can the Body of Christ ALSO BE the Bride at the same TIME ? iT CAN'T.

John the Baptist, Christ and the Twelve are all preaching the “Gospel of the Kingdom” (Matt. 4:23, etc.) for gathering disciples to the Prophetic Kingdom “Bride” (John 3:29) in the Four Gospels (diagram) having NOTHING to do with Paul’s “Word of the Cross” (1Cor. 1:18) gospel message for gathering the mystery “Body of Christ” (Eph. 4:12) in the world today. I just wrote on this topic (here) if anyone is interested in waking up.

Lets look at 2 Cor 11:2. The words to be studied are husband and virgin.

1) The greek word for husband is ANER, which is one of 2 Greek words used in the Bible for man. The other word is ANTHROPOS . ANER can mean EITHER man or husband as the context implies. But, the idea of marriage is NOT even in the context of 2 Cor 11:2, so the right meaning is that of MAN , referring to Christ as a MAN.

Paul is presenting a pure virgin ‘Body of Christ’ to God where ‘we’ (the church) represent the “one body” and Christ is the HEAD of the Church (Eph 1:22, 5:23, Col. 1:18). Therefore Jesus Christ is the “Head” of the Body in the same exact way that man is the head of the woman (1Cor. 11:3). The problem for most people is that the Kingdom ‘Bride’ is seen by OT prophecy (Hosea 2:19-20) where Jesus Christ in the Four Gospels is the “Bridegroom” and His “My Church” (Matt. 16:16-18) is joined to Him through the covenant of “Marriage” (Rev. 19:5-10). However, ‘we’ (Body of Christ) are joined to Christ through obeying our gospel, which makes us the members of “His Body” Church (Col. 1:24) seated in the heavenly places IN Christ Jesus (Eph. 2:6) even now. :0) Most people cannot see the differences between the Kingdom “Bride” and Paul’s Mystery “Body of Christ” (my thread), because we are standing in the center of a ‘mystery’ topic (Vine’s Definition) and by definition God must reveal these things at a proper ‘time.’ We agree that ‘aner’ (#435) means ‘man’ unless the context says otherwise. The problem is that ‘harmozo’ (espoused) is used only one time in Scripture right here in 2Cor. 11:2, so people are confused about how the term is used in this single situation. Paul is saying that our church is being (aorist tense) ‘joined/fitted together’ like a carpenter joins together the beams and planks of a ship, so that we are joined together as a pure virgin “body” under the one Head that is Christ.

2) The Body of Christ is referred to as a man in Ephesians 2:15 ; for to make in Himself of twain one NEW man, so making peace. The important thing to see here is that the MASCULINE GENDER is used for the Body of Christ and for Christ Himself. So it is obvious that the Body cannot BE the BRIDE, since a bride would be in the FEMININE gender and the word of God does not teach that there is a masculine BRIDE.

Scripture uses the feminine noun “bride” (nymphe #3565) in John 3:29 to describe those gathered through preaching the “Gospel of the Kingdom” (Matt. 4:23, 9:35, etc.) long before Christ ever died for anyone. Your problem is that most people here have no room in their broken theologies for a Kingdom Bride ‘and’ a Mystery Body of Christ, so they mix the two together and pretend nobody will notice. :0) The reason you are having so much difficulty helping anyone see the difference is because the ‘deluding influence’ (2Thes. 2:11) is very powerful and anyone deluded by God Himself (God sends him) is deluded indeed . . .

3) The Greek word for virgin is PARTHENOS , and is used of woman and men, and feminine is use is found in Matt 1:23, and is talking about Mary. The masculine use is found in Rev 14:4, where it talks about the 144,000 men that are called virgins.

Okay. Now what? :0) Christ is gathering the Kingdom ‘Bride’ in the Four Gospels and Paul is gathering the Mystery “Body of Christ” starting after Acts 9 where ‘both’ Dispensations/Administrations run side-by-side (diagram) to even have a famous meeting in Acts 15 and Galatians 2. Peter, John and James (Gal. 2:9) are the heads of the Kingdom “Bride” with Paul, Barnabas and Titus representing the Mystery “Body of Christ” that Peter and the others did not even know existed separate from ‘their’ Kingdom Church. That is the reason Paul had to go up and ‘submit the gospel I preach among the Gentiles’ (Gal. 2:2) to show them the difference . . .

4) The Greek word for espoused is HARMODZO and is only used once. It has 2 meaning ; TO JOIN , FIT TOGETHER , and 2 , TO BETROTH , TO GIVE ONE IN MARRIAGE.

Yes. The problem is that any word used only once, ‘and’ having several meanings, can be misinterpreted to say many different things. That is why ‘the truth’ of God’s Living Word can be ‘interpreted’ in over 2000 different ways ‘and’ the reason we have over 2000 different kinds of ‘professing’ Christians in the USA alone. Again, the ‘deluding influence’ forcing MANY to ‘believe what is FALSE’ (2Thes. 2:11) is very powerful indeed . . .

5) The important thing is the tense of the verb. , it is in the simple past tense, middle voice, and first person singular.

From the first day you came to CF.com, then you have been trying to present arguments using Greek definitions and tenses, when these people need to see a basic understanding of what is written in plain English. Your commentary here is missing the mark again, because harmozo (#718) used only in 2Cor. 11:2 appears in the ‘aorist’ tense and not the past tense. Just click on ‘tense’ behind harmozo (here) and see what you get. :0) Whenever you have an aorist verb, then you must determine if your term falls into either of seven classifications under three categories (Greek tense page) relative to ‘time,’ i.e. past, present or future. The common error of any Greek novice is to translate ‘all’ aorist verbs into the ‘past tense’ without knowing what the heck they are even talking about. Again, show me an argument based in the English to ‘then’ support that case using the Greek ‘and’ at the very least assign the correct ‘tense’ to the verbs in question. In this case, Paul is describing an ongoing process for the enlarging ‘Body of Christ’ being joined to Christ each time we hear and believe the Gospel.

That means that translation can read, I myself have JOINED you. The middle voice is repesented by the word MYSELF. IF THE FUTURE TENSE HAD BEEN USED , then it could HAVE POINTED to a possible wedding event.

We agree on the ‘joined’ part, but for some strange reason the wrong tense has sprung up in your commentary . . .

6) And accurate translation could be as ; For I am burning with zeal ( over ) you with A ZEAL of God , for I myself have joined you to one MAN to present a pure virgin to Christ. For we have been joined to Christ at the time of salvation, so there is no need for ANOTHER joining.

We agree on your translation, except I would use the term “being joined” to incorporate the true meaning of the aorist tense, which describes a continual (in perpetuity) process that is still ongoing today.

7) The gospels do use the terms and speak of a BRIDE and BRIDEGROOM, but is related to to the Nation of Israel , and the Old Testament , the 4 Gospels, and the book of the Revelation . These 2 words Bride and Bridegroom are found together in John 3:29, and this Old Testament ground.

This is where I want to turn you over my knee for a good paddling. :0) John the Baptist’s statement in John 3:29 is about the Prophetic Kingdom “BRIDE” where disciples are added to “My church” (Matt. 16:18) by obeying the “Gospel of the Kingdom” (Gospel #1 here), which disqualifies everyone from Israel like the chief priests, the scribes, the unbelieving Pharisees, lawyers and everyone else part of the ‘transgression’ (Rom. 11:11*) with hearts hardened (Rom. 11:7*) beyond our collective abilities to fathom. God is dividing Israel of the flesh into two groups (believers and unbelievers) by offering the “Gospel of the Kingdom” three times through John the Baptist (spirit witness), Jesus Christ (blood witness) and the Twelve through the Holy Spirit (water witness) in three separate but related ministries. Those of you starting our mystery church in Acts 2 have missed the Mystery Boat entirely, because that is the start of the Ministry of the Holy Spirit continuing to offer the “Gospel of the Kingdom” to ISRAEL ONLY (Acts 2:14, 22, 36). Our mystery church begins with Paul on the Road To Damascus in Acts 9 . . .

8) The word PRESENT? It is used about 14 times by Paul, BUT the parallel verse is found in Eph 5:27. That he might PRESENT it to Himself a glorious assembly . This is going to be a presentation ceremony of some kind in the future for the Body of Christ after the Rapture. The presentation of the Assembly to Christ is NOT A WEDDING CEREMONY.

Lord-Have-Mercy . . . :0) The term ‘present’ (paristemi #3936) also appears in the aorist tense. Just click on the ‘Tense’ sign behind 'paristemi' (here) and see for yourself. The correct translation says, “. . . for I am joining you to one man, that I am presenting . . .” a chase virgin [body] to Christ where the concept of ‘perpetuity’ and ‘state of being’ remain intact.

9) The great mystery of Eph 5:32, is the fact that just as 2 can be joined together as one in the eyes of God, so the Assembly and Christ are also joined together as one in the eyes of God.

We agree and disagree. Remember that Paul’s context is focused solely upon the “Body of Christ” being joined to Christ as the Head of our Mystery Church without one thought of the Kingdom “Bride” that must join us IN Christ Jesus through active participation in the upcoming “Marriage Supper Of The Lamb.” Rev. 19:5-10. Remember also that Christ came in ‘water’ (Kingdom Doctrine for the Bride) and ‘blood’ (Grace Doctrine for the Body of Christ) and that eventually these ‘two’ dispensations will also become ‘one flesh.’ The difference is that Peter, John, James and everyone part of the Kingdom ‘Bride’ will be justified by WORKS and not by faith alone (James 2:24) for obtaining the same things that ‘we’ (Body of Christ) have handed over to us for free. :0) Therefore, the believers in ‘our gospel’ are joined to Christ and justified by faith APART from works (Rom. 4:4-6), while the Kingdom Bride members must wait for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb that ends every coming age for all the ages to come. They (The Bride in blue) will join those of us already,

IN Christ Jesus even now,

Terral

 

[JDS]

I will tell RIGHT NOW that it not the Body of Christ. How can the Body of Christ ALSO BE the Bride at the same TIME ? iT CAN'T.

Lets look at 2 Cor 11:2. The words to be studied are husband and virgin.

1) The greek word for husband is ANER, which is one of 2 Greek words used in the Bible for man. The other word is ANTHROPOS . ANER can mean EITHER man or husband as the context implies. But, the idea of marriage is NOT even in the context of 2 Cor 11:2, so the right meaning is that of MAN , referring to Christ as a MAN.

2) The Body of Christ is referred to as a man in Ephesians 2:15 ; for to make in Himself of twain one NEW man, so making peace. The important thing to see here is that the MASCULINE GENDER is used for the Body of Christ and for Christ Himself. So it is obvious that the Body can not BE the BRIDE, since a bride would be in the FEMIMINE gender and the word of God does not teach a that there is a masculine BRIDE.

3) The Greek word for virgin is PARTHENOS , and is used of woman and men, and feminine is use is found in Matt 1:23, and is talking about Mary. The masculine use is found in Rev 14:4, where it talks about the 144,000 men that are called virgins.

4) The Greek word for espoused is HARMODZO and is only used once. It has 2 meaning ; TO JOIN , FIT TOGETHER , and 2 , TO BETROTH , TO GIVE ONE IN MARRIAGE.

5) The important thing is the tense of the verb. , it is in the simple past tense, middle voice, and first person singular. That means that translation can read, I myself have JOINED you. The middle voice is repesented by the word MYSELF. IF THE FUTURE TENSE HAD BEEN USED , then it could HAVE POINTED to a possible wedding event.

6) And accurate translation could be as ; For I am burning with zeal ( over ) you with A ZEAL of God , for I myself have joined you to one MAN to present a pure virgin to Christ. For we have been joined to Christ at the time of salvation, so there is no need for ANOTHER joining .

7) The gospels do use the terms and speak of a BRIDE and BRIDEGROOM, but is related to to the Nation of Israel , and the Old Testament , the 4 Gospels, and the book of the Revelation . These 2 words Bride and Bridegroom are found together in John 3:29, and this Old Testament ground.

8) The word PRESENT ? It is used about 14 times by Paul, BUT the parallel verse is found in Eph 5:27. That he might PRESENT it to Himself a glorious assembly . This is going to be a presentation ceremony of some kind in the future for the Body of Christ after the Rapture. The presentation of the Assembly to Christ is NOT A WEDDING CEREMONY.

9) The great mystery of Eph 5:32, is the fact that just as 2 can be joined together as one in the eyes of God, so the Assembly and Christ are also joined together as one in the eyes of God.

Some preliminary statements:

The church is the bride of Christ in the same way that Eve was the bride of Adam. She was taken out of Adam's sleeping body and so was the church formed from Christ's body. 1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Adam was the figure of Jesus Christ. Ro 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Jesus Christ is the Last Adam: 1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.

There is much evidence that what I am saying is true that I will give you later. People do not understand the church of Jesus Christ and they come up with wild ideas. Jesus Christ is the bridegreoom and John the Baptist is the friend of the bridegroom. John the Baptist represents those saints who are not members of the church. The members of the church of Jesus Christ are those who received his Spirit as the gift of God and are baptized into the body by the same Spirit in his post resurrection See 1 Cor 12. It is the ministry of the Spirit to form this church, body. The bride becomes the wife at the marriage supper of the Lamb, the inauguration of the 1000 year kingdom of Jesus Christ in time at his second coming!

Re 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
Those who are called to the supper are the friends.

The scripture, rightly divided, will show this truth plainly!

 

[Terral]

Hi JDS:

Some preliminary statements:

The church is the bride of Christ in the same way that Eve was the bride of Adam.

Wrong. How on earth can you quote Dan’s entire Opening Post to then make a backwards comment like this and keep a straight face? :0) Paul calls our mystery church the “His Body” Church (Col. 1:24) and “Christ’s Body” (1Cor. 12:27) and the “Body of Christ” (Eph. 4:12) and NEVER even uses the term ‘bride’ (nymphe #3565) even once in all of his Thirteen Epistles to the Gentiles combined. Everyone here is encouraged to click on the Blue Letter Bible ‘nymphe’ link above to see John the Baptist’s use in John 3:29 to describe Christ’s “My Church” (Matt. 16:18) and the very next use in Revelation 18:23. Paul says over and over again that our “Body of Christ” church is the “one BODY IN Christ” (Rom. 12:4-5) saying we are baptized by the “one Spirit” into the “one body” (1Cor. 12:13) and “Christ’s Body” (1Cor. 12:27) with prime examples like this:

“But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body, just as He desired. If they were all one member, where would the body be? But now there are many members, but one body.” 1Corinthians 12:18-20.

And yet, JDS says “The Church is the 'BRIDE' of Christ . . .” that Paul never even mentions one time anywhere. :0) The fact is that MANY people running around this Board have no clue about the differences between the “Two Gospels” (my thread*) and “Two Churches” (my thread) of the New Testament for Peter’s Prophetic Kingdom “Bride” and Paul’s Mystery “Body of Christ,” so they mix the two together and make up anything they wish. :0)

She was taken out of Adam's sleeping body and so was the church formed from Christ's body. 1Pe 2:24

This is ridiculous! Peter’s Kingdom “Bride” (John 3:29) is the same church in Jerusalem that Paul was sent through a revelation to go and “submit the GOSPEL (#2*) that I preach among the Gentiles’ (Gal. 2:2) and in ‘fear of failure,’ because “some of OUR NUMBER” (Acts 15:24) were disturbing Paul’s Gentiles with nonsense about adding circumcision to Paul’s “Word of the Cross” (1Cor. 1:18) gospel message that he “received through a revelation of Jesus Christ” (Gal. 1:11-12). Now JDS is trying to force our “His Body” Church (Col. 1:24) into becoming his Kingdom ‘Bride,’ because he does NOT even begin to know the difference. How many times do Peter, John and James use the phrase “Body of Christ” to describe their Kingdom “Bride” (John 3:29) saved via the “Gospel of the Kingdom” in all the Epistles bearing their collective names? Zero! :0) Paul says that he is the “apostle of Gentiles” (Rom. 11:13) speaking in the first person to ‘you Gentiles’ (Eph. 3:1-3) time and time again. So, how many times do Peter, John, James, Hebrews and Jude address the “Gentiles” in the first person in all the Kingdom Epistles bearing all of their collective names? Zero again! :0)

Peter has an “Apostle to the CIRCUMCISED” (Gal. 2:8) in the same way that Paul has an apostleship “to the Gentiles” and Paul concludes that Peter, John and James would continue going “to the CIRCUMCISED” (Gal. 2:9) in the same way that he, Barnabas and Titus would continue going “to the Gentiles.” Peter had no authority to write one word to the mystery “Body of Christ” as he declared the “wisdom given him” (Paul) to be “hard to understand” saying that the untaught and unstable distort these things “to their own destruction.” 2Peter 3:14-16. JDS is just one example of the untaught and unstable doing everything in his power to mix Peter’s Kingdom Bride ‘and’ Paul’s Mystery “Body of Christ” (diagram) together into a false church that never even existed in Scripture anywhere. Peter is adding to the Kingdom “Bride” on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2), which is the same ‘My church’ that Paul persecuted before God raised him up on the Road To Damascus (Acts 9) to give him our gospel for today to ‘start’ this “Dispensation of God’s Grace” (Eph. 3:2) for the previously unseen and hidden “Body of Christ” still in the world today. Peter’s Kingdom “Bride” was “cut off” (Rev. 20:4 = translated 'beheaded' = diagram) almost 2000 years ago, as nobody has been saved via the “Gospel of the Kingdom” for almost the same amount of time.

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

JDS is errantly talking about Grace Doctrine given to the Apostle Paul about our ‘Body of Christ’ and simply blurts out wrongly that ‘we’ are the His BRIDE Church without blinking an eye. :0) Go back to the Four Gospels and see Christ Himself preaching the “Gospel of the Kingdom” (Matt. 4:23) as the “Gospel of God” (Mark 1:14-15) to Israel ONLY (Matt. 15:24 = Matt. 10:5-7) that JDS is willing to say is Paul’s “Gospel to the UNCIRCUMCISED.” Galatians 2:7. :0) Then realize that Paul calls ‘our church’ the “His BODY” Church (Col. 1:24) in context to describing “Christ IN YOU” as “this Mystery AMONG THE GENTILES” (Col. 1:27) where Israel of the flesh is sitting on the sidelines in ‘blindness’ (Rom. 11:25) having the “spirit of STUPOR” (Rom. 11:8), which would cause most anyone to blurt out the disinformation that our “Body of Christ” church is the “BRIDE of Christ.” :0) Then realize that the doctrinal precepts teaching the “Gospel of the Kingdom” (#1) include repentance, confession of sins and water baptism for the forgiveness of sins (Mark 1:4-5) that Christ Himself is preaching ‘and’ all of that is plainly visible for the Kingdom “Bride” (John 3:29) BEFORE Christ sheds one drop of His precious blood FOR ANYONE. Christ came in ‘water’ AND in ‘blood’ (1Jn 5:6) meaning that the “Gospel of the Kingdom” is God’s gospel OF WATER for the BRIDE and Paul’s “Word of the Cross” is God’s gospel OF BLOOD for the BODY of Christ represented by the believers in ‘our gospel’ that is VEILED to those who are PERISHING (2Cor. 4:3-4).

Adam was the figure of Jesus Christ. Ro 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Again, JDS is attempting to transform the ‘one BODY’ (Rom. 12:4-5) into his mythical “Bride” using Pauline authority, when Paul never even uses the term once anywhere in all his Epistles to the Gentiles combined. Paul says, “because we are the members of HIS BODY” (Eph. 5:30), but JDS says we are the members of His BRIDE without missing one beat. :0)

Jesus Christ is the Last Adam: 1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.

So what? :0) That does NOT make our mystery church any Kingdom ‘Bride’ by any stretch of your vivid imagination.

There is much evidence that what I am saying is true that I will give you later. People do not understand the church of Jesus Christ and they come up with wild ideas. Jesus Christ is the bridegreoom and John the Baptist is the friend of the bridegroom. John the Baptist represents those saints who are not members of the church.

Now JDS is running back to John 3:29 where John the Baptist calls those saved via the “Gospel of the Kingdom” the BRIDE and Christ is the BRIDEGROOM of the same verse. However, has Christ died on the cross for anybody in John 3? NO!!!!!!!!! Peter, John and James thought Paul’s Gentiles had to be circumcised (Acts 15:1-5), because they had no idea that Paul’s “Dispensation of God’s Grace” (Eph. 3:2) even existed some 20 years AFTER Pentecost. If you really want to understand John the Baptist’s relationship to Christ’s “My church” (Matt. 16:18), then we can debate that too! :0)

Jesus Christ is the “Lord God” of the Old Testament who formed Adam from the dust of the ground (Gen. 2:7) using His own two hands and His throne is HEAVEN with earth (this universe) being His footstool (Isa. 66:1 = my thread). Jesus Christ is gathering His Kingdom “Bride” (Peter, John, James, etc.) by preaching the “Gospel of the Kingdom” that only ‘some’ accepted to ‘obtain it, and the rest were hardened.’ Rom. 11:7. This means that Peter, John and James are earning a place in “His HEAVENLY Kingdom” (2Tim. 4:18, in a ‘water witness/priest’ position (at His right hand = diagram) under Jesus Christ as the “Heavenly Messiah” fulfilling promises made in Hosea 2:19-20, while John the Baptist is the ‘earthly Messiah’ over the Kingdom of God “on earth AS IT IS in heaven” (Matt. 6:10). Many people fail to realize that John continued to have ‘disciples’ (Matt. 9:14, 11:2, Mark 2:18, Luke 7:18, etc.) even AFTER Jesus Christ began calling Israel to become part of His kingdom that is NOT of this world or even of this realm (John 18:36). Twenty five years AFTER Pentecost we see ‘disciples’ running around that had ONLY the Baptism of John (Acts 19:1-4*) without ever even hearing about Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, until Paul came along and finished ‘preaching the kingdom’ (Acts 20:25) and they THEN became disciples baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (Acts 19:5*) to receive the Holy Spirit through the laying of hands (Acts 19:6*). The difference for our mystery ‘Body of Christ’ is that ‘we’ receive the Holy Spirit by ‘hearing with faith’ (Gal. 3:2) at the moment we hear and believe the GOSPEL (Eph. 1:13-14). An example of disciples of the coming Kingdom of God ‘on earth AS IT IS in heaven’ can be found in Ezekiel 37:11-12 where the “whole house of Israel” is resurrected and led where? Into heaven? No!!! Pay careful attention:


[Continued]

 

[Terral]

“Then He said to me, "Son of man, these bones are the Whole House of Israel [see Rom. 11:25]; behold, they say, 'Our bones are dried up and our hope has perished. We are completely cut off.' Therefore prophesy and say to them, 'Thus says the Lord God [Christ], "Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel*.” Ezekiel 37:11-12.

This Whole House of Israel will be raised up from their graves on the ‘last day’ to live in the kingdom under “David” from Jeremiah 30:9 and described by Ezekiel in this same chapter! Jesus Christ is the Lord speaking and saying,

"My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd; and they will walk in My ordinances and keep My statutes and observe them. They will live on the land that I gave to Jacob My servant*, in which your fathers lived; and they will live on it, they, and their sons and their sons' sons, forever; and David My servant will be their prince forever. I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will place them and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in their midst forever. My dwelling place also will be with them; and I will be their God [Heb. 1:8], and they will be My people. And the nations will know that I am the Lord [Christ] who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forever." Ezekiel 37:24-28.

The “My Church” (Matt. 16:18) of Jesus Christ has a priestly position in “His HEAVENLY Kingdom,” while John the Baptist is the ‘friend of the Bridegroom’ over everyone called to the Kingdom of God “on earth AS IT IS in heaven.” That is right! For those of you unable to see “God’s Mystery” (Col. 2:2) and the “Mystery of Christ” (Eph. 3:4, Col. 4:3 = horizontal in diagram), then how can anyone expect you to also see the “Mystery of Adam” through the types that he is Abraham (father) and Joshua (deliverer) and David (king) and Elijah (prophet) and John the Baptist (priest) and the coming ‘prophet’ of Acts 3:22-23 making him very much “MORE than a prophet” (Matt. 11:9) that the Lord God (Christ) formed in the beginning with everyone here very much IN him? :0)

The difference is that Elijah/John the Baptist/David/Adam will prepare the disciples of his earthly kingdom over a period of thousands of years in order to send them up Jacob’s ladder (diagram again) to THEN serve before the Lamb (with Peter, John and James) on the sea of glass in the “Body of Moses/Eve,” so that they (Kingdom Bride Disciples) and THEN become active participants in the “Marriage Supper of the Lamb” (Rev. 19:5-10), so they can THEN join us (Body of Christ) IN Christ Jesus BY WORKS. :0) In other words, John the Baptist and Jesus Christ are preaching the “Gospel of the Kingdom” in the Four Gospels as “The Way” for the Kingdom “Bride” to earn the same things by WORKS, WORKS and more WORKS that God is giving ‘us’ (Body of Christ) for free; and that is how Israel will be made jealous (Deut. 32:21, Rom. 10:19, 11:11) for ALL the ages to come . . .

The members of the church of Jesus Christ are those who received his Spirit as the gift of God and are baptized into the body by the same Spirit in his post resurrection See 1 Cor 12. It is the ministry of the Spirit to form this church, body. The bride becomes the wife at the marriage supper of the Lamb, the inauguration of the 1000 year kingdom of Jesus Christ in time at his second coming!

Lord-Have-Mercy . . . JDS just mixes the Kingdom Bride (Church #1) saved via the “Gospel of the Kingdom” AND the Mystery “Body of Christ” (Church #2) together, as if ‘we’ (Body of Christ) must participate in the Marriage supper of the Lamb (very funny), when ‘we’ are seated in the heavenly places IN Christ Jesus (Eph. 2:6) by obeying Paul’s Gospel (#2) even now. :0) There is no such thing as any 1000 Year Kingdom of Jesus Christ on this earth, which is another MYTH that JDS goes on about without having a clue. Jesus Christ returns on the clouds in glory at the END of the Age (Matt. 24:3 = 24:30-31) where He judges the living (Matt. 25:31-34) and the dead (Rev. 20:11-15) when heaven and earth pass away (see Zech. 14:1-6).

By that time, the 1000 Year Day of the Lord (in blue) is OVER and David (Eze. 34:23-25) is already ‘cut off’ as the Messiah of Daniel 9:26 (advanced diagram), so he can be raised up again (Jer. 30:9) to be installed as ‘king’ and this time ‘forever’ as already shown in Eze. 37:24-28. Jesus Christ has already been seated "far above all the heavens (Eph. 4:10) and is to take “His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the HEAVENS, a Minister in the Sanctuary and in the True Tabernacle, which the Lord (His God and Father) pitched and not man." Hebrews 8:1-2. David (Adam) will sit on the throne in the Kingdom of God “on earth AS IT IS in heaven” during the 1000 Year Day of the Lord (in blue again) ‘and’ again in the New Earth of Revelation 21:1+ where Christ’s Heavenly Kingdom contains “New Jerusalem.” :0)

Since JDS does NOT begin to know the differences between the Kingdom Bride 'and' the Mystery Body of Christ, then he cannot begin to show you the difference in being in an earthly kingdom ‘and’ being,

IN Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[dan p]

Hi, terral. Thanks for your commentary. I will have to review the Greek tense you spoke about. I liked your response , dan p

 

[Terral]

Hi Dan:

Hi, terral. Thanks for your commentary. I will have to review the Greek tense you spoke about. I liked your response , dan p

You are very welcome. You are well on your way to ‘rightly dividing’ the word of truth (2Tim. 2:15), because Dan sees the Two Gospels and Two Churches of the New Testament. Please do not think I am picking on you, but Dan is ahead of the typical CF.com member in recognizing the different rules for the different dispensations and your work is being used as a springboard to take things to a higher level. Your study of the aorist tense will help you to read Scripture more accurately to understand what Paul is really talking about in dispensing Grace Doctrine to you as a member of Christ’s Body. One of the most important uses of the aorist tense is found in 1Timothy 3:16 where you have one present tense verb (is = esti) followed by six aorist verbs that all appear incorrectly in the ‘past tense,’ because that is what the scholars do. :0) Since you are aware (through Brock I think you said) that accurate translations can be derived by noting the subtle nuances of the Greek, then perhaps you are ready to see what Paul is really saying with this heavy use of the aorist tense:

“By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who is being revealed in the flesh, is vindicated in the Spirit, being seen by angels, being proclaimed among the nations, being believed on in the world, being taken up in glory.” 1Timothy 3:16.

The ‘mystery of godliness’ is “Christ IN You,” according to “this mystery among the Gentiles” (Col. 1:27 = diagram = Fig 2), which is connected directly to the new ‘inner man’ (Rom. 7:22, Eph. 3:16) ‘being renewed day by day’ (2Cor. 4:16), as Christ IN You is being revealed in your flesh, is being vindicated in the Spirit within your mortal body (1Cor. 3:16, 6:19), being seen by the angels right now and being proclaimed among the nations each time we preach the ‘message of truth’ (Eph. 1:13-14) for another member of Christ’s Body to be ‘created IN Christ Jesus’ (Eph. 2:10) to become a ‘new creature’ (2Cor. 5:16-17) just like us, until ‘we’ are taken up in glory at our Rapture (1Thes. 4:15-17), just like He was taken up in Acts 1:9-11. Those misapplying the aorist tense ‘and’ incorrectly believing that this “mystery of godliness” pertains to Jesus of the flesh (see 2Cor. 5:16-17 again and the "NO LONGER" part), are replacing spiritual things regarding “Christ IN you” with physical things related to ‘past’ events and never grow to see that Christ Jesus is actually enlarging within your very being ‘and’ with God IN Christ (2Cor. 5:19) enlarging IN Him at the very same time.

The difference here is that those confusing the Two Gospels and Two Churches together are blinded by the ‘deluding influence’ (2Thes. 2:11), as our gospel is veiled to those who are perishing. 2Cor. 4:3-4. Therefore, there is nothing I can do to help ‘them’ see these things (2Peter 3:14-16) more clearly, because they are just as much secure “IN Antichrist” (far left*) as ‘we’ are eternally secure IN Christ Jesus on the right side of the equation*. I know for certain that you ‘are’ a member of Christ’s Body by obeying Paul’s Gospel without adding works, so you will be part of the Judgment of 2Cor. 5:10 where rewards are handed out over whether these ‘works’ on display right here are good or bad (1Cor. 3:12-15). I could not care less about those blinded by the god of this world running around this place as the ‘servants of righteousness’ serving their ‘angel of light’ (2Cor. 11:14-15), but I do have much concern for the members of Christ’s Body for whom our Lord died.

This means that I do not want your rewards handed over to me at that Judgment, because you refused to heed warnings from an older brother already IN Christ Jesus for decades. I would rather not see your beautiful white garment soiled with black smoke from the altar, when your works are laid down in front of Christ and tested by the fire. No sir. I would much rather you keep all the precious stones for your own crown and for your own heavenly ephod and the rings on all your fingers, so that in the ages to come we can look back into this evil age and reminisce about the days when we worked together in the trenches with dirt and sweat upon our faces for the common cause of building up the ‘Body of Christ’ (Eph. 4:12), when the enemy surrounded us in this darkness so completely; so that even those counted as the elite here (high Reps) were deceived with such Satanic efficiency.

I look forward to seeing how your commentary evolves over the weeks and months to come in Light of new revelations understood through a correct application of the original languages of God’s Living Word.

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[JDS]

The church of Jesus Christ is the bride of Jesus Christ in the same way that Eve was the bride of Adam. Taken out of the sleeping bodies that God himself had made, the brides became the wives. Eve was not said to be the bride of Adam, but she was, but she wasn't until she was fully formed. Today, the bride of Christ is not fully formed but when she is she will be presented to Christ for marriage. It was God who formed Eve and it is God, the Holy Ghost who is forming the church.

Ro 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

The fullness of the gentiles is the completion of the church, the body of Christ.

Ac 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

God said of this church:
2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ.

He was concerned:

2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

He said:

Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Speaking of this chaste virgin:

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence. 9 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body’s sake, which is the church:

I will deal more with the wonderful type of Christ and the church, Adam & Eve, later. Meanwhile, Israel in the OT, i e before the cross, was Israel and there was no such thing as a kingdom bride and I will prove it without a doubt by rightly dividing the Scriptures. This so called kingdom bride that Terrel has found is a total fabrication and is not real.

The marriage of the bride awaits the second coming of Christ in glory. The marriage supper of the Lamb is this marriage and it is also the inauguration of the millennial kingdom of Christ. Following is a reference in the OT to her: Ps 45:9 Kings’ daughters [were] among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir. 10 Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also thine own people, and thy father’s house;
11 So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Lord; and worship thou him.
12 And the daughter of Tyre shall be there with a gift; even the rich among the people shall intreat thy favour.
13 The king’s daughter is all glorious within: her clothing is of wrought gold.
14 She shall be brought unto the king in raiment of needlework: the virgins her companions that follow her shall be brought unto thee.
15 With gladness and rejoicing shall they be brought: they shall enter into the king’s palace.
16 Instead of thy fathers shall be thy children, whom thou mayest make princes in all the earth.
17 I will make thy name to be remembered in all generations: therefore shall the people praise thee for ever and ever.

The first part of this psalm is about the king subduing his enemies with the sword before he rules with the queen just like in Re 19.

 

[Terral]

Hi JDS:

Since you did not quote one word from Dan’s Opening Post, nor from anyone writing on his Topic, then perhaps the right thing to do was to start another thread. I answered your Post #3 offering where you quoted Dan’s entire OP to begin rambling aimlessly about our church being the ‘bride of Christ,’ but you ignored every word of Post #4 and Post #5 to just begin again regurgitating the same nonsense. Again, JDS does NOT know the differences between Peter’s Kingdom “Bride”(John 3:29) saved via the “Gospel of the Kingdom” (Matt. 4:23) AND Paul’s Mystery “Body of Christ” saved via his “Word of the Cross” (1Cor. 1:18) gospel message very much in the world today. The man just calls ‘our church’ the Kingdom ‘Bride’ and the ‘Body’ at various stages of his game in hope that nobody will notice. When I quote every word and show the folly of his position, then he will ignore everything to start reciting the same Bullony all over again. :0)

The church of Jesus Christ is the bride of Jesus Christ in the same way that Eve was the bride of Adam. Taken out of the sleeping bodies . . . It was God who formed Eve and it is God, the Holy Ghost who is forming the church. Ro 11:25 For I would not, . . .

JDS simply states that ‘the church’ is the ‘bride of Christ,’ when he has already been shown that Paul never even uses the term ‘bride’ (nymphe) in any of his Thirteen Epistles to the Gentiles. This ‘sleepy body’ dogma is nothing more than nonsense. Paul calls the believers in our gospel “Christ’s Body” (1Cor. 12:27) and the “Body of Christ” (Eph. 4:12) and “His Body” Church (Col. 1:24) and NEVER calls us the “bride” even one time, because all of that is part of JDS’ vain imagination. BTW, the Lord God who formed Adam (Gen. 2:7) and then Eve (Gen. 2:20-22) is none other than our Lord Jesus Christ the “Son of God” (John 1:34), but again, JDS does not know the difference. :0) Does Paul call our mystery church the ‘bride’ in Romans 11:25? No.

The fullness of the gentiles is the completion of the church, the body of Christ.

Ac 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15 . .

Now we are the ‘Body of Christ’ (Eph. 4:12) again according to JDS’s ‘flip flop’ theology. :0) The Acts 15/Gal. 2 meeting in Jerusalem is between Peter’s Kingdom “Bride” (Church #1*) and Paul’s Mystery “Body of Christ” (Church #2*), as already explained in Posts #4 and #5 above using Scripture and Diagrams and a ton of commentary against JDS’s feeble position. The people from among the Gentiles for His name represents the “Body of Christ” (our mystery church) saved by God’s grace through faith apart from works (Eph. 2:8-10), as a totally separate ‘dispensation’ from Peter’s Kingdom Bride. JDS’s solution to his ‘one gospel’ and ‘one church’ problem is to toss everyone into a single pot to call them the ‘bride’ and then the ‘body’ in the next paragraph. :0)

God said of this church:
2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ.[snip]

I explained Paul’s statements in 2Corinthians 11 to Dan in Post #7 that JDS found no reason to quote or dispute. Paul is saying that he ‘joined’ the believers in ‘my gospel’ to the one ‘Man,’ so that these believers can be presented as a chase virgin ‘body’ under Christ as the “Head,” again, already described above in this thread. Now JDS quotes 2Cor. 11:3, Eph. 5:22-32 and Col. 1:18-24 without one word of meaningful ‘rightly divided’ commentary for anything. And yet, Paul calls the believers in our gospel the “members of His body” (Eph. 5:30) and Christ the “Head of the body” (Col. 1:18) over the “His Body” Church” (Col. 1:24) that JDS calls the “bride.” This is ridiculous. :0)

I will deal more with the wonderful type of Christ and the church, Adam & Eve, later.

In other words, JDS cannot ‘quote >>’ one word of my rebuttal to his ‘bride’ conclusions about our mystery church to offer one defending argument, but he can continue pasting his ‘We are the bride’ propaganda to this debate. His plan is to continue ignoring the fact that the believers in our gospel represent the “Body of Christ” having NOTHING whatsoever to do with Peter’s Prophetic Kingdom “Bride” (John 3:29) saved via the “Gospel of the Kingdom.” In fact, the man has problems even identifying the “Gospel of the Kingdom” as the “Gospel of God” (Mark 1:14-15) that Christ Himself preached LONG before ever shedding one drop of blood for anyone.

Meanwhile, Israel in the OT, i e before the cross, was Israel and there was no such thing as a kingdom bride and I will prove it without a doubt by rightly dividing the Scriptures. This so called kingdom bride that Terrel has found is a total fabrication and is not real.

Really? In other words, the “Bride” that John the Baptist describes in John 3:29 with Christ as the “Bridegroom” is a total fabrication. :0) JDS says “Israel in the OT,” then characterizes that as everyone ‘before the cross,’ as if John the Baptist, Christ and the Twelve did NOT even preach the “Gospel of the Kingdom” for the salvation of ANYONE during the time of the Four Gospels. :0) The man continues to ignore the fact that Jesus Christ Himself preached the “Gospel of the Kingdom” (Matt. 4:23) for the gathering of “My church” (Matt. 16:18, 18:17-18) that included Peter, John and James (Matt. 10:5-7), as they continued preaching the “Gospel of the Kingdom” for the Kingdom “Bride” (John 3:29) that continued enlarging at Pentecost (Acts 2) and beyond right along with Paul’s Mystery “Body of Christ” that came to exist in Acts 9 right along with Paul’s conversion. Peter’s Kingdom ‘Bride’ represents the ‘water witness’ of Christ’s Ministry (diagram = in blue) , while Paul’s Mystery “Body of Christ” is the ‘blood witness’ AND Jesus Christ came in water AND in blood (1John 5:6) including the preaching of the “Gospel of the Grace of God” (Acts 20:24) for our mystery body AND “preaching the Kingdom” (Acts 20:25) as ‘two’ parts of the “whole purpose of God” (Acts 20:27). JDS’s solution is to simply mix these ‘two’ dispensations together and pretend no ‘church’ actually started until Pentecost, even though ‘the mystery’ (Eph. 3:3) was revealed TO PAUL after his conversion in Acts 9 AND our gospel for today is “according to the revelation of THE MYSTERY.” Romans 16:25. Terral (one ‘e&#8217 did not ‘find’ any Kingdom Bride, because that appears in your Bible in John 3:29 too. :0)

The marriage of the bride awaits the second coming of Christ in glory. The marriage supper of the Lamb is this marriage and it is also the inauguration of the millennial kingdom of Christ.

This is nothing more than a Myth and a Fairy Tale told by a guy that does NOT even know the differences between the Kingdom “Bride” (Church #1) and the Mystery “Body of Christ” still in the world today. The “Marriage Supper of the Lamb” (Rev. 19:5-10) takes place IN HEAVEN and BEFORE the members of THAT ‘dispensation’ return with Christ IN GLORY to end Revelation 19!!! :0) Go ahead and read Revelation 19 for yourself to see verse 1 includes, “I heard like a loud voice a great multitude IN HEAVEN,” which has been John’s perspective since Revelation 4:1 where we see, “behold, a door standing open IN HEAVEN” and “Immediately I was in the Spirit, and behold, a throne was standing IN HEAVEN.” Rev. 4:2. This “Marriage Supper of the Lamb” is taking place ‘in heaven’ where Peter, John and James (Kingdom Bride) have been ruling with Christ for the 1000 years (Rev. 20:4-5) ‘from heaven.’ Then directly ‘after’ the Marriage Supper of the Lamb we see:

“And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war.” Rev. 19:14.

The 1000 Years Day of the Lord (in blue) begins way back in Revelation 1 with the sounding off of ‘our’ trumpet (1Cor. 15:52, 1Thes. 4:16) sounding off ‘behind’ John in verse 10 marking ‘our’ Rapture when we are taken up to meet the Lord in the air (1Thes. 4:17). The members of our mystery church are then Judged (2Cor. 5:10, 1Cor. 3:12-15 = top of diagram in yellow) to rule from IN the Lamb of Revelation for the same 1000 Years (pic) IN HEAVEN. The difference is that ‘we’ (Body of Christ) are already IN the Lamb, but Peter, John, James and everyone called to the Kingdom ‘Bride,’ when Elijah restores all things, must be joined to the Lamb THROUGH MARRIAGE only at the END of the Age taking place over in Revelation 19 and 20. Go back to Matthew 24 to realize that Christ is returning on the clouds in great glory (Matt. 24:30-31) only at the END of the Age (Matt. 24:3+) to make war with God’s enemies on the earth, which means there is no ‘time’ for another 1000 Years before heaven and earth pass away in Revelation 20:11-15. Elijah came to restore all things on the earth (Matt. 17:10-11) as the ‘prophet’ of Acts 3:22-23 to START the 1000 Years ‘and’ Christ returns in great glory only AFTER Satan, his Beast and their False Prophet (Rev. 13) incarnate onto this earth as mere men to make the restored kingdom (Eze. 47-48) and Temple (Eze. 40) DESOLATE!!!

JDS wrongly says that Jesus Christ is going to rule in some mythical 1000 Year Millennial Kingdom ON THIS EARTH. Okay, so just how does he say that temporary Kingdom WILL END? :0) Because you are unaware, then Christ's kingdom lasts 'forevermore' (Isa. 9:7). What great power is going to come and remove Christ from His throne located on this earth? This is ridiculous, because at the END of the Age (Zech. 14:1+) we see Christ coming on the clouds (Matt. 24:30-31) and the 1000 Years are already OVER. The “Gospel of the Kingdom” (Matt. 24:14) is ‘the gospel’ of that period, because that is the ‘good news’ that Elijah is going to preach when ‘he’ comes to restore all things. Elijah restores the Temple and Kingdom that the antichrist comes to make desolate ONLY at the ‘end’ of the Age (Matt. 24:15), BEFORE Christ ever returns from HEAVEN in great glory! David (Eze. 34:23-25) is the earthly “Messiah” that is ‘cut off’ (Dan. 9:26) for the antichrist to take up his position in the Holy Place (Matt. 24:15) displaying himself as being “God” (2Thes. 2:3-4). Jesus Christ’s Heavenly Kingdom (2Tim. 4:18) is not of this world or even of this realm (Jn 18:36), which is the reason He returns ‘from heaven’ at the END of the Age.

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[A Brother In Christ]

I will tell RIGHT NOW that it not the Body of Christ. How can the Body of Christ ALSO BE the Bride at the same TIME ? iT CAN'T.

How can you be a citzen of a town , and a state government then another Federal government it can not happen

Lets look at 2 Cor 11:2. The words to be studied are husband and virgin.

1) The greek word for husband is ANER, which is one of 2 Greek words used in the Bible for man. The other word is ANTHROPOS . ANER can mean EITHER man or husband as the context implies. But, the idea of marriage is NOT even in the context of 2 Cor 11:2, so the right meaning is that of MAN , referring to Christ as a MAN.

How can Christ merry the bride when He is head of thee Christ.... its about a relationship... not sex

2) The Body of Christ is referred to as a man in Ephesians 2:15 ; for to make in Himself of twain one NEW man, so making peace. The important thing to see here is that the MASCULINE GENDER is used for the Body of Christ and for Christ Himself. So it is obvious that the Body can not BE the BRIDE, since a bride would be in the FEMIMINE gender and the word of God does not teach a that there is a masculine BRIDE.

Does not the two become one.. eph 5:31 ... did not Eve come out of Adam... ... Does the bible call Adam a he/she ..... no

3) The Greek word for virgin is PARTHENOS , and is used of woman and men, and feminine is use is found in Matt 1:23, and is talking about Mary. The masculine use is found in Rev 14:4, where it talks about the 144,000 men that are called virgins.

4) The Greek word for espoused is HARMODZO and is only used once. It has 2 meaning ; TO JOIN , FIT TOGETHER , and 2 , TO BETROTH , TO GIVE ONE IN MARRIAGE.

5) The important thing is the tense of the verb. , it is in the simple past tense, middle voice, and first person singular. That means that translation can read, I myself have JOINED you. The middle voice is repesented by the word MYSELF. IF THE FUTURE TENSE HAD BEEN USED , then it could HAVE POINTED to a possible wedding event.

6) And accurate translation could be as ; For I am burning with zeal ( over ) you with A ZEAL of God , for I myself have joined you to one MAN to present a pure virgin to Christ. For we have been joined to Christ at the time of salvation, so there is no need for ANOTHER joining .

7) The gospels do use the terms and speak of a BRIDE and BRIDEGROOM, but is related to to the Nation of Israel , and the Old Testament , the 4 Gospels, and the book of the Revelation . These 2 words Bride and Bridegroom are found together in John 3:29, and this Old Testament ground.

8) The word PRESENT ? It is used about 14 times by Paul, BUT the parallel verse is found in Eph 5:27. That he might PRESENT it to Himself a glorious assembly . This is going to be a presentation ceremony of some kind in the future for the Body of Christ after the Rapture. The presentation of the Assembly to Christ is NOT A WEDDING CEREMONY.

9) The great mystery of Eph 5:32, is the fact that just as 2 can be joined together as one in the eyes of God, so the Assembly and Christ are also joined together as one in the eyes of God.

How is God and man joined... by Spirit not the flesh!

 

[JDS]

I will tell RIGHT NOW that it not the Body of Christ. How can the Body of Christ ALSO BE the Bride at the same TIME ? iT CAN'T.

How can you be a citzen of a town , and a state government then another Federal government it can not happen

Lets look at 2 Cor 11:2. The words to be studied are husband and virgin.

1) The greek word for husband is ANER, which is one of 2 Greek words used in the Bible for man. The other word is ANTHROPOS . ANER can mean EITHER man or husband as the context implies. But, the idea of marriage is NOT even in the context of 2 Cor 11:2, so the right meaning is that of MAN , referring to Christ as a MAN.

How can Christ merry the bride when He is head of thee Christ.... its about a relationship... not sex

2) The Body of Christ is referred to as a man in Ephesians 2:15 ; for to make in Himself of twain one NEW man, so making peace. The important thing to see here is that the MASCULINE GENDER is used for the Body of Christ and for Christ Himself. So it is obvious that the Body can not BE the BRIDE, since a bride would be in the FEMIMINE gender and the word of God does not teach a that there is a masculine BRIDE.

Does not the two become one.. eph 5:31 ... did not Eve come out of Adam... ... Does the bible call Adam a he/she ..... no

3) The Greek word for virgin is PARTHENOS , and is used of woman and men, and feminine is use is found in Matt 1:23, and is talking about Mary. The masculine use is found in Rev 14:4, where it talks about the 144,000 men that are called virgins.

4) The Greek word for espoused is HARMODZO and is only used once. It has 2 meaning ; TO JOIN , FIT TOGETHER , and 2 , TO BETROTH , TO GIVE ONE IN MARRIAGE.

5) The important thing is the tense of the verb. , it is in the simple past tense, middle voice, and first person singular. That means that translation can read, I myself have JOINED you. The middle voice is repesented by the word MYSELF. IF THE FUTURE TENSE HAD BEEN USED , then it could HAVE POINTED to a possible wedding event.

6) And accurate translation could be as ; For I am burning with zeal ( over ) you with A ZEAL of God , for I myself have joined you to one MAN to present a pure virgin to Christ. For we have been joined to Christ at the time of salvation, so there is no need for ANOTHER joining .

7) The gospels do use the terms and speak of a BRIDE and BRIDEGROOM, but is related to to the Nation of Israel , and the Old Testament , the 4 Gospels, and the book of the Revelation . These 2 words Bride and Bridegroom are found together in John 3:29, and this Old Testament ground.

8) The word PRESENT ? It is used about 14 times by Paul, BUT the parallel verse is found in Eph 5:27. That he might PRESENT it to Himself a glorious assembly . This is going to be a presentation ceremony of some kind in the future for the Body of Christ after the Rapture. The presentation of the Assembly to Christ is NOT A WEDDING CEREMONY.

9) The great mystery of Eph 5:32, is the fact that just as 2 can be joined together as one in the eyes of God, so the Assembly and Christ are also joined together as one in the eyes of God.

How is God and man joined... by Spirit not the flesh!

Why do I care about middle voices and feminine nouns? I care about the words of Scripture and the understanding of the texts. Try as I might, I can make no sense out of your arguments. You didn't even mention the types!

If you are agreeing with Terrel, let me reiterate that there is no such thing as a kingdom bride.

I will be back later to help with John 3:29!

 

[A Brother In Christ]

no such a thingt as a kingdom bride

 

[pehkay]

There are three status of the church as the Bride, kingdom and Body of Christ.

As the Body of Christ, it fulfilled Gen 1:26 as the expression of Christ (image)
As the kingdom, it fulfilled Gen 1:26 on the dominion all over the earth.
As the Bride, the church is the counterpart of Christ.

 

[Terral]

Hi JDS:

Why do I care about middle voices and feminine nouns? I care about the words of Scripture and the understanding of the texts. Try as I might, I can make no sense out of your arguments. You didn't even mention the types!

If you are agreeing with Terrel, let me reiterate that there is no such thing as a kingdom bride.

I will be back later to help with John 3:29!

This is hilarious! John the Baptist, (Matt. 3:1-6) and Christ (Matt. 4:17-23, Mark 1:14-15) and the Twelve (Matt. 10:5-7) are all preaching the “Gospel of the Kingdom” (Matt. 4:23, 9:35, etc.) as God’s tool for gathering the Prophetic Kingdom “Bride” (Jn 3:29) and JDS can sit there and say there is no such thing as a Kingdom Bride. :0) Christ’s disciples are actually called the ‘sons of the bridal chamber’ (Mark 2:19 = check the Greek), as the Lord God of the Old Testament (Christ) is keeping His promise to betroth Israel to Himself from Hosea 2:19-20.

"I will betroth you to Me forever; Yes, I will betroth you to Me in righteousness and in justice, In lovingkindness and in compassion, And I will betroth you to Me in faithfulness. Then you will know the Lord.” Hosea 2:19-20.

Betrothing Israel to Himself means offering up a 'promise to marry,' which elevates believers in the “Gospel of the Kingdom” to ‘bride’ status, so they can become a ‘wife’ upon participating in the “Marriage Supper of the Lamb” (Rev. 19:5-10) that apparently JDS will also say does not even exist. :0) Jesus Christ is the “Lord” of Malachi 3:1 following “My messenger/angel” of the same verse:

"Behold, I am going to send My messenger/angel [John the Baptist = Elijah], and he will clear the way before Me. And the Lord [Jesus Christ], whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and the messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming," says the Lord of hosts.” Malachi 3:1.

Jesus Christ tells Israel and His Disciples that John the Baptist is Elijah ‘who is to come’ (Matt. 11:14*) saying that he is “MORE than a prophet” (Matt. 11:9*) and saying that “All the Prophets and the Law prophesied” NOT until Himself, but “All the Prophets and the Law prophesied until JOHN*.” The Lord God told Israel that He would send Elijah before the great and terrible day of the Lord (Mal. 4:5-6) in the final two verses of the Old Testament for Jesus Christ to testify that among those born of women there has NOT risen anyone greater than John the Baptist (Matt. 11:11*). Jesus Christ is the “Bridegroom” for the Kingdom “Bride” that John the Baptist is talking about right here, saying,

"You yourselves are my witnesses that I said, 'I am not the Christ,' but, 'I have been sent ahead of Him.' He who has the Bride [that JDS says does not exist] is the Bridegroom [maybe Christ does not exist either]; but the friend of the Bridegroom [John has his own Disciples too], who stands and hears Him, rejoices greatly because of the Bridegroom's Voice [Christ is the Lord God of the OT ‘and’ John the Baptist is ‘Adam’ who He formed from the dust of the ground = pic and pic]. So this joy of mine has been made full. He must increase, but I must decrease [since Christ took his Holy Spirit = Matt. 3:15-16]. He [Christ = Lord] who comes from above [Heaven from Genesis 1:1] is above all, he who is of the earth [Earth from Genesis 1:1] is from the earth [John the Baptist is the “man of the earth”] and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven [Highest Heaven from 1Kings 8:27] is above all.” John 3:28-31.

Jesus Christ is the “Lord God” of the Old Testament who formed His “son of God” (Luke 3:38) by combining the ‘breath of life’ (spirit witness from the heavens) and the ‘dust of the ground’ (water witness from the earth) to form the ‘original cultivator of the land’ for the Garden way back in Genesis 2:7. Try to imagine where ‘you’ were at when Christ formed Adam with everyone here ‘IN’ him to realize that nobody here can possibly be greater than John the Baptist, because he is just one ‘skin’ (Gen. 3:21 = pic = “My messenger/angel&#8221 for your father Adam; just like Joshua (deliverer), Abraham (father), David (king), Elijah (prophet), John the Baptist (priest) and the coming ‘prophet’ of Acts 3:22-23 coming to restore the ‘Tabernacle of David’ for the upcoming 1000 Year Day of the Lord (in blue) where ‘he’ will be preaching the “Gospel of the Kingdom” for gathering the ‘late rains’ (James 5:7) Kingdom “Bride” that JDS insists does NOT even exist. :0)

John the Baptist and the coming ‘prophet’ are NOT the Anointed (Christ) “Son of God” from HEAVEN [F+S+HS), because he is the ‘son of God’ representing the heavens, heaven and earth of Genesis 1:6-8 (blue sphere*) making him very much the ‘man of the earth.’ Jesus Christ had to remove the “Holy Spirit” baton from His “son of God,” because “His God and Father” (God) had a mission for His “Son of God” (Lord God of OT) that could only be accomplished by the Lord God (Christ) who formed him and had just come down as the ‘Bread of Life’ FROM HEAVEN. John the Baptist is your father Adam, which is the reason nobody here can be greater than he (Matt. 11:11), even though the least in the Kingdom of Heaven (Gen. 1:1 = red sphere*) ‘is’ greater than him. Jesus Christ is the Heavenly Messiah coming to this earth to die for our sins, but first God sent Him to Israel ONLY (Matt. 15:24) to gather disciples (Rom 11:7 = like Peter, John, James, the saved from Pentecost, Samarians of Acts 8, Cornelius of Acts 10, the disciples of Acts 19) to “His HEAVENLY Kingdom” (2Tim. 4:18 see Gen. 22:17) that is neither of this world nor of this realm (Jn 18:36).

Jesus Christ is the Lord God of the OT where “HEAVEN is His Throne" and this universe (the earth) is merely His Footstool. Isa. 66:1. However, the ‘man’ the Lord God formed for the ‘garden’ (man of the earth) is the ‘Earthly Messiah’ that Israel (and you) did not recognize (Matt. 17:12) who is the “king” over everyone in the Kingdom of God ‘on earth AS IT IS in heaven.’ Matt. 6:10. In other words, there is a Kingdom of Priests in ‘heaven’ serving the Lamb (Christ) ‘and’ there is a Kingdom of Priests on ‘earth’ in David’s Kingdom (Eze. 34:23-25) as their ‘earthly kingdom’ counterparts. The difference for ‘us’ (Body of Christ = Church #2) is that God calls the believers in ‘our gospel’ (Gospel #2) to bypass John’s earthly kingdom ‘and’ to bypass Christ’s Kingdom Bride (Peter, John, James, etc.) to become baptized into Christ (Gal. 3:27) through ‘obedience of faith’ (Rom. 1:5, 16:26). The Old Testament ‘can’ see Peter’s Prophetic (seen) Kingdom “Bride” being fulfilled by John the Baptist, Christ and the Twelve in the Four Gospels and Acts, but the OT prophets ‘cannot’ see Paul’s Mystery “Body of Christ” under the Lord God (Christ) as the “Head” (pic). Peter’s Kingdom “Bride” is like Eve returning into Adam’s side (reverse of Gen. 2:20-22), but ‘we’ (Body of Christ) have become like “Adam’s body” with Jesus Christ has the “Head” of our church for Peter, John and James to be joined through a covenant of Marriage. This means that Peter and the Kingdom Bride eventually join us “IN Christ Jesus” by WORKS to obtain what God has already given us for free. :0)

You do not want to become part of the late rains Kingdom ‘Bride’ under Elijah (Adam), because that represents the LONG road where everyone will be made “Jealous” (Deut. 32:21, Rom. 10:19, 11:11). If you will think things through very carefully, then nobody had any opportunity to be ‘baptized into Christ’ at any time of the Four Gospels, because Jesus Christ (of the flesh) is still walking around on the earth and has yet to shed one drop of blood for anyone. John the Baptist, Christ and the Twelve are all gathering disciples to the “Eve/Moses” side of the equation (on left), as the Lord God (Christ) also placed this second witness in many ‘skins’ (Gen. 3:21) like Noah, Sarah, Moses, Bathsheba and one of the ‘two witnesses’ from Revelation 11. There is a “Body of Moses/Eve” being gathered through obedience to the “Gospel of the Kingdom” AND a “Body of Elijah/Adam” made up of their angelic super-halves (pic = Lamb's left hand) directly on the other side of the Lamb where ‘we’ (Body of Christ) are already IN Christ Jesus. :0) Our mystery church will judge the world (Eve half) and the angels (Adam half) throughout all the ages to come (Eph. 2:7), as ‘they’ take the LONG road and God puts our two witnesses back together at our Rapture (1Thes. 4:16-17) when ‘we’ put on immorality (1Cor. 15:51-53) by the rejoining of our Eve/Moses half (man + woman) and our greater Adam/Elijah (angel) halves making ‘us’ copies of the Singularity Expression Hosts of Genesis 1:1.

JDS refuses to acknowledge the existence of the Prophetic Kingdom “Bride,” because he mixes the ‘water’ (Kingdom) and ‘blood’ (Grace) ministries of Jesus Christ (1Jn 5:6 = pic) together into an abomination having no basis in Biblical reality whatsoever. He just mixes Peter’s Kingdom “Bride” together with Paul’s Mystery “Body of Christ” (that’s us) and characterizes his own mythical creation as the bride or the body throughout his wrongly divided commentary; where my work shows you the difference between being part of the Prophetic Kingdom Bride ‘and’ being,

IN Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[A Brother In Christ]

God the Father marries Israel.....

Christ marries the church.... which is the mystery bride

 

[JDS]

Hi JDS:





This is hilarious! John the Baptist, (Matt. 3:1-6) and Christ (Matt. 4:17-23, Mark 1:14-15) and the Twelve (Matt. 10:5-7) are all preaching the “Gospel of the Kingdom” (Matt. 4:23, 9:35, etc.) as God’s tool for gathering the Prophetic Kingdom “Bride” (Jn 3:29) and JDS can sit there and say there is no such thing as a Kingdom Bride. :0) Christ’s disciples are actually called the ‘sons of the bridal chamber’ (Mark 2:19 = check the Greek), as the Lord God of the Old Testament (Christ) is keeping His promise to betroth Israel to Himself from Hosea 2:19-20.

I am not going to answer you point by point but I am going to tell the truth. The fact is I cannot follow much of your logic. Your stuff is far too complicated for it to be biblical and true. Who could ever figure it out?

Jesus Christ came in fulfillment of OT prophecies for at least two reasons as concerning the OT prophecies. They are:

1)
Ga 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Now they were not redeemed or become sons until the Spirit was sent into their hearts. This was post resurrection.

2)
Ro 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises [made] unto the fathers:

The Fathers here would be Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to whom the Abrahamic covenant was given and confirmed. This covenant promised that all the families of the earth would be blessed through the promised seed, who, it turns out, is Jesus Christ. So in V 9, he says:

9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.
10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.
11 And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people.
12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

Now, we know that the Jews received the promise of the Spirit by grace through faith AND by covenant promise, beginning in Acts 2. It was not until Acts 10, some 10 years later that the gentiles was given the Spirit, not by promise, but by grace alone through faith. God had made no covenant promises to them (us). It was just a gift to us by grace. See Ep 2:12 here and Rom 9:4,5.

Now, no one knew how God was going to bless the families of the earth under the Abrahamic covenant and no one would have known that God did bless the gentiles unless he would have sent the apostle Paul to reveal his preconcieved, before the foundation of the world plan and purpose to do it through Christ. No, excuse me, that is the wrong preposition. He was going to do it IN Christ! The epistle to the Ephesians is the explanation by and through the apostle Paul of this mystery that had been hidden heretofore even though it had already been initiated by the apostle Peter, first by opening the door of faith and salvation to the Jews in Acts 2 and then to the gentiles in Acts 10. It would be in the body of Christ that was to be formed by the two entities of New Covenant Christianity, the Jew and the Gentiles, and all the OT types confirms that this is the truth as well as the plain unambigious assertation of the NT scriptures that address the subject.

When Jesus preached in the gospels during his earthly ministry, it was to Israel only. He said he was coming to establish the kingdom of God and that it was at hand. However, he said right in the middle of preaching that gospel that one must be born again to see (Percieve) it and one must be born of the Spirit to enter into it. That presented a problem for Nichodemas to whom he was speaking, if Nocodemas desired to enter it at that moment. the problem was it was still at hand and the Spirit of God was not yet given because of this: Jn 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) He was not glorified until the resurrection!

Now, John the Baptist was the fore runner of Jesus Christ and announced him to Israel. He was also the last prophet of Israel before the prophet that Moses spoke of, the Messiah.

Let me pause here to say that Israel rejected Jesus Christ as their promised king and Messiah in the first 12 chapters of Matthew and committed the unpardonable sin for that generation. They officially rejected him in Matt 21 and called for his crucifixion. But that did not stop Jesus Christ from establishing his kingdom. He said a man (which he was) must be born again to enter into it. He did not say that one must be in his kingdom in order to be born again. That would mean something far different. From Matt 13, he begins to tell about the mystery form of the kingdom of heaven in his 12 parables and his kingdom is a spiritual kingdom First. It must be that way if one must be born again to enter it! The disciples did not understand it any better than you fellows do but Jesus set them straight with words like these: Lu 19:11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. 12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. Etc, Etc.
So, he turned his kingdom over to stewards while he was away. Such is the mystery form of the kingdom. The king can come back at any time and call the stewards to account. Mr 13:34 [For the Son of man is] as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. He will come back and establish his eartly physical kingdom and when he comes it will be to kill and cast into hell all those who are not already in his kingdom. He comes back to conquer no one.

Now, to the bridegroom:

A bridegroom is a man who is espoused to a bride but is unmarried.

Joh 3:29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

John the Baptist says explicitly that he is the friend of the bridegroom.

30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

Jesus Christ has the bride which makes him the bridegroom. The bride is the church of Jesus Christ which is formed by the Spirit of God, the beginning of which was on Pentecost when he came down from heaven to do the job. He is still here and he is still forming the church. John the Baptist was never born again so he was therefore never in the bride of Christ. He was killed by Herod before the Spirit was given.
A note here. The Spirit of God does not only indwell the believers in the risen Jesus Christ but he also baptizes these believers into the body of Christ, thus forming the body. See 1 Cor 12 where you will see the apostles and prophets in there place in this body. The body is formed between his appearing at Pentecost and the rapture of the church, an event that is sure to come very soon.

At the second coming of Jesus Christ to rule in glory, the church will come with him and both the OT saints and the tribulation saints will be called to the marriage supper which means they will be resurrected at that time.

Now, I have been brief and I am sure you will have questions and will want me to fill in the blanks, which I will be glad to do.

We will speak more on the types of the OT, especially the Adam and Eve type of Christ and the church. It is fascinating and only God could have pulled it off.

 

[Terral]

Hi JDS:

I am not going to answer you point by point but I am going to tell the truth. The fact is I cannot follow much of your logic. Your stuff is far too complicated for it to be biblical and true. Who could ever figure it out?

The errors in your “there is no such thing as a kingdom bride” (Post #11) explanations are ‘quoted >>’ line by line and ‘the truth’ is explained using Scripture (2Tim. 2:15) and diagrams and JDS cannot even follow my logic. I am telling you with 100 percent certainty that the ‘deluding influence’ (2Thes. 2:11) is at work here forcing MANY to ‘believe what is false,’ so that you mix Kingdom Doctrine and Grace Doctrine together into an abomination that God sent to nobody. John the Baptist describes the Kingdom “Bride” in John 3:29 with Christ even as the Bridegroom and THAT is just too complicated for JDS, but I can assure you and everyone here that God knows exactly what is going on in my posts. :0)

Jesus Christ came in fulfillment of OT prophecies for at least two reasons as concerning the OT prophecies. They are: Galatians 4:4-7, Romans 15:8 [snip]

Lord-Have-Mercy . . . First you start off by talking about Jesus Christ coming to fulfill OT Prophecies, then you skip right pass everything in His Earthly Ministry to Israel ONLY (Matt. 15:24) to quote from what Paul teaches Gentiles just before 60 AD over three decades later. JDS is simply unwilling to turn the pages back to Mark 1:14-15 to see what Jesus Christ Himself is ‘preaching’ to the Jews in Galilee (Matt. 4:17-23) in the “Gospel of the Kingdom” (Matt. 4:23, 9:35), because that is just too complicated. :0) Dan asks “Where Is The Bride?,” and JDS’s answer is to run over into Paul’s Epistles where he never even uses the term in describing our “Body of Christ” (Eph. 4:12) even one time, because the “Dispensation of God’s Grace” (Eph. 3:2) is something totally NEW that was given TO PAUL and nobody else. However, Jesus Christ handed Peter a “Kingdom Dispensation” with the ‘keys of the kingdom of heaven’ (Matt. 16:19) right along with his “Apostleship to the Circumcised” (Gal. 2:8) that included preaching the “Gospel of the Kingdom” HIS ENTIRE LIFE. The simple truth here is that JDS is mixing Peter’s Kingdom ‘Bride’ (Church #1*) together with Paul’s Mystery “Body of Christ” (#2*) with no regard for ‘rightly dividing’ (2Tim. 2:15) anything at all. He comes to the Dispensationalism Forum to insist there is only ‘one dispensation’ and anything resembling ‘the truth’ is just too complicated. :0)

Now, we know that the Jews received the promise of the Spirit by grace through faith AND by covenant promise, beginning in Acts 2. It was not until Acts 10, some 10 years later that the gentiles was given the Spirit, not by promise, but by grace alone through faith. God had made no covenant promises to them (us). It was just a gift to us by grace. See Ep 2:12 here and Rom 9:4,5.

No sir. Peter is preaching the “Gospel of the Kingdom” to Israel ONLY (Acts 2:14, 22, 36) in Acts 2 as the third and final offering through the ministry of the Holy Spirit (diagram) where we see him preaching the same repentance and baptism for the ‘forgiveness of your sins’ (Acts 2:38) that John the Baptist preached from day one (Mark 1:4-5). JDS is running backwards into Acts 2 in order to implant components of “Grace Doctrine” from the Pauline Epistles that Peter only found out about in the famous meeting in Jerusalem in Acts 15! :0) The reason JDS is so very confused is because he runs to the Pauline Epistles in order to steal “Grace Doctrine” teachings, so he can go backwards in time to dispense that to anyone he wants without regard to any ‘revelation of the mystery’ (Rom. 16:25). Does anyone want to guess how many times the terms “faith” and “grace” appear in the same verses in the Old Testament and the Four Gospels and even the Book of Acts? The answer is ZERO. :0) Someone please tell us how many times the word ‘charis’ is translated ‘grace’ in the Four Gospels outside of John 1:14-17? Any clues? The answer is only one time in Luke 2:40 and each use of ‘grace’ applies directly to Jesus Christ. How many times does the term ‘faith’ appear in the Gospel of John? The answer again is ZERO, because the ‘faith of Jesus’ (Rom. 3:26 = pic) continued to be bound up “IN Christ” only to be accessed AFTER God milled that out for the believers in our gospel AT CALVARY. Paul teaches these Gentiles about a period ‘before faith came’ (Gal. 3:23*) AND “now that faith has come” (Gal. 3:25*), but THAT TIME had yet to come for ANYONE in the Four Gospels or early Acts; until God revealed “the gospel I preach among the Gentiles” (Gal. 2:2) to the Apostle Paul through a ‘revelation of Jesus Christ’ (Gal. 1:11-12). JDS wants to pass that “wisdom given him” (Paul) to Peter back in Acts 2, when the leader of the Kingdom Bride says “these things” are “hard to understand” even at the END of his very long ministry (2Peter 3:14-16); saying that the untaught and unstable distort them ‘to their own destruction.’ Those of you wanting to follow a simpleton into the ditch, because ‘the truth’ is simply too complicated, are encouraged to tag right along with JDS; because MANY are called but very few are chosen.

When Jesus preached in the gospels during his earthly ministry, it was to Israel only. He said he was coming to establish the kingdom of God and that it was at hand. However, he said right in the middle of preaching that gospel that one must be born again to see (Percieve) it and one must be born of the Spirit to enter into it.

The “Gospel” that Christ is preaching is the “Gospel of the Kingdom” (Matt. 4:23, 9:35, etc. = Gospel #1*) with a completely different set of ‘doctrinal precepts’ than Paul’s “Word of the Cross” (1Cor. 1:18 = #2*) gospel message that Scripture calls the “Gospel to the Uncircumcised.” Gal. 2:7. I am finished offering up links to Opening Posts showing you the difference. Go ahead and mix everything together into your denominationalism stew to take out only the tasty bits and pieces of your works-based religion. The problem is that the “Gospel of the Kingdom” includes many WORKS that those blinded by the ‘deluding influence’ just toss right in with Paul’s “my gospel” (Rom. 2:16, 16:25, etc.), because ‘our gospel is VEILED to those who are perishing.’ 2Cor. 4:3-4. GL with that.

My case has been presented to my complete satisfaction and anyone really interested in finding the truth has every opportunity to do so. GL,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[JDS]

One of the single most important doctrines in the whole of history of mankind and the bible is the doctrine of the kingdom of God. In the very beginning Adam was given dominion over the earth. The sad fact is that Satan was able to wrestle that kingdom authority away from him and since that time has controlled the families and nations and peoples of the earth through Satanic principles of greed, selfishness, corrupt power, violence, intrigue, and such like. Because of the stark contrast between the principles of God's government, we who have bowed our knee to the rule of God in our hearts are told to love not the world (system) and that the love of the world is enmity against God.

The struggle between God and Satan through the centuries has been strong and intense and it is revealed that God will one day wrestle the kingdoms from Satan and destroy him and his citizens who has chosen to follow him and cast them all into the lake of fire. That has not happened yet but God has informed us how it will happen. He has raised up his own nation through Abraham through whom he can rule with his own principles and demonstrate his grace, longsuffereing, kindness, charity, justice and all other characteristics that is part of his rule. He would also bring forth the last Adam who would restore the aurhority of God over all mankind on the earth. As Adam and his wife Eve were considered by God to be one and jointly ruling, so it will be when God finally restores all things. Consider what he says here:

19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.


The world began with Adam and Eve and they proclaim loudly with their typical prophecy that Christ and the church fulfils this prophecy and that Christ and the church will rule over the earth throughout eternity once he has restored all things. Israel will be the chief among those nations on the earth over which he will rukle whether any one likes it or not or whether it fits with their theology systems or not.

Now, because of the misinformation presented by people like Terrel and other hyper dispensationalists, the truth is obscured and scripture is complicated til it makes no sense. This needs to be talked about and since the op asks about the bride, I plan on speaking on the subject on this thread for a while as I get time and to present the facts. We are living in the days when God is going to restore his authority over the nations. It is exciting times. Everyone who is saved should be looking up because our redemption is drawing nigh. If anyone reading this is not sure they are saved, you had better get saved and make your calling and election sure.

 

[dan p]

To understand Pauline truth, YOU HAVE to Know the difference between The Gospel of the Kingdom and The Gospel of the Grace of god , OR you will not understand Terral or Dan. I just have to tell you that the so-called New Testament was wtitten in Greek and NOT English and that is why we harp on 2 Tim 2:15. Are you KJV ONLY ? That will be confusing. JDS, I understand Terral just find, and just take your time read these posts. By the way I am not a hyper-dispensationalists but I call myself Pauline Dispensationlist, and KNOW ONE can deny that that word is in the word of God and that Paul is the Apostle that explains what that word means, and most are confused exactly what it really means.

 

[JDS]

To understand Pauline truth, YOU HAVE to Know the difference between The Gospel of the Kingdom and The Gospel of the Grace of god , OR you will not understand Terral or Dan. I just have to tell you that the so-called New Testament was wtitten in Greek and NOT English and that is why we harp on 2 Tim 2:15. Are you KJV ONLY ? That will be confusing. JDS, I understand Terral just find, and just take your time read these posts. By the way I am not a hyper-dispensationalists but I call myself Pauline Dispensationlist, and KNOW ONE can deny that that word is in the word of God and that Paul is the Apostle that explains what that word means, and most are confused exactly what it really means.

Actually I do know the difference between the gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of Jesus Christ and I do agree that John Baptist, Jesus Christ, the 12 apostles and the 70 others of Luke 10 all and only preached the gospel of the kingdom. I also know what is the definition of the gospel of God and I know it has nothing to do with the mistranslated text that Terrel hangs his hat on in Mark 1:14 where we are told, "Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God," I do not know why Terrel insists that this is the gospel of God. He could cross reference in the other gospel accounts, like Mt 4:17 and find that it is the gospel of the KINGDOM of God, a huge difference.

The phrase, "gospel of God" is used 7 times in the NT. Romans begins and ends with it and is it's theme. Here is where it is found.

1) Ro 1:1
2) Ro 15:16
3) 2 Co 11:7
4) 1 Th 2:2
5) 1 Th 2:8
6) 1 Th 2:9
7) 1 Pe 4:17

Three times Paul says it is "my gospel".
1) Ro 2:16
2) Ro 16:25 - This connects it to the mystery of Christ
3) 2 Ti 2:8

In short, it is the good news to the nations that faith had come and God is extending grace to the gentiles through Jesus Christ and including them in the new covenant blessings of forgiveness of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost. It is not riocket science if one reads that Paul said he was chosen of God to be the apostle to the gentiles. Following is the gospel of God summarized in one passage;

Ro 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you (gentiles) according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, 26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

You really should read Ep 2:12 here to see what a great priviledge this actually is for the gentiles.

BTW, I am not confused about the meaning of the word dispensations and I am a dispensationalist. And I do believe the KJV is the perfectly preserved word of God in English, and no, I am not a Ruckmanite, and yes, I am a Pauline dispensationalist. And yes, I do believe there were two entities, the Jews and the gentiles, in the church before the revelation of the church was given to Paul, and yes, I do believe the Jews were first in the church quite some time before the gentiles were added, and yes, I think they are one in Christ, as far as rank and position.

The gospel of the kingdom of God was preached to Israel and Israel was called to repent and believe it and accept their king, who was in their midst. By Mt 12, Israels leaders had spoken for the nation and had rejected him and during his last week before the crucifixion, the whole nation rejected him and called for his death. In Matt 13, Jesus judicially blinded Israel by speaking his truths concerning his kingdom in parables. He called these parables the "mysteries of the kingdom of heaven". This required those who would learn them to come to him as did the apostles and have them explained. This is the spiritual kingdom and it was set up after his resurrection. It was farmed out to stewards while he went on a long journey to to get authority for his physical kingdom on earth. The duty of the stewards was to be faithful to increase his kingdom while he was away by adding citizens to it by persuasion. The church of Jesus Christ is the spiritual kingdom and has a heavenly inheritance with Christ who will come for it in the fullness of times. When it is taken out, God will send his two Jewish witnesses, Moses and Elijah, who will begin again to preach the gospel of the kingdom to Israel. Among those who are converted through their ministry will be 12,000 young men from each of the 12 tribes of Israel who will be sent to all the world, two by two to preach the gospel of the kingdom. Most of those who receive it and are converted will be killed or starve to death. There will be no waffling. One will be either in the kingdom of God or the kingdom of Satan and the marks will confirm which one it is.

The gospel of the kingdom of God is the good news that Jesus Christ is coming soon to reign upon the earth.

The word of God is not hard but it must be rightly divided.