where is that in the Bible.

[Adventist Dissident]

I have been recently thinking about some of the concepts taught in the Great Conterversy and where we find support for that in the scripture.

Where in the Scripture is the Time of Jacobs Trouble?

A. the Time of Trouble is in Daniel 11+12

B. Jacobs night of trouble, wrestling with the Angel/Lord is in Genesis

but what is the basis of joining them together and placing them at the End of Time?

i simply don't know how we came to that conclusion, could someone please explain this? Thank-you

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I have been recently thinking about some of the concepts taught in the Great Conterversy and where we find support for that in the scripture.

Where in the Scripture is the Time of Jacobs Trouble?

A. the Time of Trouble is in Daniel 11+12

B. Jacobs night of trouble, wrestling with the Angel/Lord is in Genesis

but what is the basis of joining them together and placing them at the End of Time?

i simply don't know how we came to that conclusion, could someone please explain this? Thank-you

Greetings, Ice! I hope all is well. I don't have an answer to your question, but I'm interested in your questions. I look forward to what others have to say about it.

BFA

 

[Adventist Dissident]

anyone?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Well, I don't think I'll be able to give a direct Biblical quote, because if there was one, you wouldn't be asking, right?

What I can say is, aside from the fact that Adventists (generally) believe Ellen White to be inspired and to expand the scripture understanding, I can easily see the comparison drawn between Jacob and God's people at the end of time. If you view the Bible and the stories it contains as not only for the time in which the events actually happened but also as a guide for God's people at the end of the world... 1 Cor 10:11... then it becomes easier to see.

With this in mind, the struggle that Jacob had with the angel was a a test of his faith and desire for forgiveness/redemption. His strength came from his realization that he was guilty and in need of the blessing. He surrendered himself completely to self and cried to God for mercy. When God's people are upon the earth without Christ as our mediator during the time of trouble, we must exibit the same character that Jacob did. We must hold on to him with all we have as Satan assails us without mercy.

This, to me, is the tie in.... hope it helps.

 

[Adventtruth]

Well, I don't think I'll be able to give a direct Biblical quote, because if there was one, you wouldn't be asking, right?

What I can say is, aside from the fact that Adventists (generally) believe Ellen White to be inspired and to expand the scripture understanding, I can easily see the comparison drawn between Jacob and God's people at the end of time. If you view the Bible and the stories it contains as not only for the time in which the events actually happened but also as a guide for God's people at the end of the world... 1 Cor 10:11... then it becomes easier to see.

With this in mind, the struggle that Jacob had with the angel was a a test of his faith and desire for forgiveness/redemption. His strength came from his realization that he was guilty and in need of the blessing. He surrendered himself completely to self and cried to God for mercy. When God's people are upon the earth without Christ as our mediator during the time of trouble, we must exibit the same character that Jacob did. We must hold on to him with all we have as Satan assails us without mercy.

This, to me, is the tie in.... hope it helps.

OK...when is God people ever without a mediator in the bible?

AT

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

OK...when is God people ever without a mediator in the bible?

AT

The story of Jacob is a metaphor for the struggle God's people will have at that time... just like the metaphor of the early and latter rains in Palestine for the harvest represent the outpouring of the Holy Spirit for the harvest of God's people...

 

[OntheDL]

I have been recently thinking about some of the concepts taught in the Great Conterversy and where we find support for that in the scripture.

Where in the Scripture is the Time of Jacobs Trouble?

A. the Time of Trouble is in Daniel 11+12

B. Jacobs night of trouble, wrestling with the Angel/Lord is in Genesis

but what is the basis of joining them together and placing them at the End of Time?

i simply don't know how we came to that conclusion, could someone please explain this? Thank-you

It is a continuing theme in the bible that the time of trouble takes place just before the deliverance. God's people always had to go through a period of great distress before the deliverance.

In Jeremiah 30, God by the record of Jeremiah promised Israel the restoration.

Jer 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.

Israel the new name God gave to Jacob means the prince who has power with God and with man and has prevailed, Genesis 32:28. Israel prefigured Christ. In a larger sense, Israel refers to Jacob and his children. So Israel prefigured Christ and His people. This promise of restoration for Israel has a (greater) dual fulfillment in the last days.

 

[Adventtruth]

The story of Jacob is a metaphor for the struggle God's people will have at that time... just like the metaphor of the early and latter rains in Palestine for the harvest represent the outpouring of the Holy Spirit for the harvest of God's people...

So how does that answer my question.....Where is that in the bible?

AT

 

[Adventtruth]

It is a continuing theme in the bible that the time of trouble takes place just before the deliverance. God's people always had to go through a period of great distress before the deliverance.

In Jeremiah 30, God by the record of Jeremiah promised Israel the restoration.

Jer 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.

Israel the new name God gave to Jacob means the prince who has power with God and with man and has prevailed, Genesis 32:28. Israel prefigured Christ. In a larger sense, Israel refers to Jacob and his children. So Israel prefigured Christ and His people. This promise of restoration for Israel has a (greater) dual fulfillment in the last days.

Hi OntheDL...its been years that I spoke with you.

Not that I am saying that you are wrong...but can you provide any scripture for your conclusions? I am only wanting to see your biblical foundation for this in the future.

thanks

AT

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

The passage provided in Jer 30:7 is the scriptural proof you are looking for, if indeed you are looking for proof. What do you suppose 'that day is great, so that none is like it' means? What other time can this be refering to other than the end times, the second coming of Christ? In the passage the 'time of Jacobs trouble' is also mentioned. We understand what the symbolism is regarding Jacobs struggle, so we apply that to God's people at this time at the end.

Ellen White was shown these things through inspiration.... and for traditional Adventists, this constitutes light from the Heaven.

 

[stinsonmarri]

I have been recently thinking about some of the concepts taught in the Great Conterversy and where we find support for that in the scripture.

Where in the Scripture is the Time of Jacobs Trouble?

A. the Time of Trouble is in Daniel 11+12

B. Jacobs night of trouble, wrestling with the Angel/Lord is in Genesis

but what is the basis of joining them together and placing them at the End of Time?

i simply don't know how we came to that conclusion, could someone please explain this? Thank-you

Greetings icedragon101

If you notice you said concept which means an idea you grasp hold on to which could be for good or bad. In this case EGW took an idea for good that she prayed about as we all should do and I feel she was led by the Holy Spirit to write. As you well know that there are several Scriptures about the Time of Trouble including the Scripture every ones know and that is Dan 12:1. Psa 37:39, 41:1; Pro 25:19; Isa 33:2; Jer 14:8
But let's focus on Jacob's Trouble that we are holding on to and see how she came to this conclusion. Remember things are spiritually discern by the Holy Spirit as we accept the Savior as I personal Savior. If you start at the very beginning EGW first vision presents a special group of Adventist. She was looking for all of the Adventist and she found them going up a narrow path. She also saw the people turn to a group, a band and then the 144,000. This is the group that most SDA don't take the time out to read about from EGW and the Bible. In Revelation 7 under the six seal an Angel is flying from the east and he tells four angels to hold back the winds. Now most SDA thinks that everyone will come into the church in order to be saved. To be honest all churches feel this way and it is not true. Revelation chapter Seven and Dan12: 1-3 tells the true story. It is during the Time of Trouble that 144,000 will complete the assignment and bring in the great multitude. Most SDA think that the multitude that no one can number starts with Adam but the Bible doesn't state that at all.

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our Elohim which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped Elohim, Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our Elohim for ever and ever. Amen. And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of Elohim, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst anymore; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and Elohim shall wipe away all tears from their eyes. Rev 7:9-17

Now let's look at Dan 12:1-3 along with a few other Scriptures:

And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed. Dan 11:35

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. Dan 12:1-3

Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Yashua, Yashua, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Matt 25:1-12

And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto Elohim and to the Lamb. Rev 14:3

Here is the sum of the matter and that is the 144,000 is special group that will remain alive during the worst time in the world history. I will not go into all the details here but the Bible is a road map with clues. These clues are real and they come from history because history repeats itself. Whatever that was revealed in the past will happen again and each time more intense! Example it is clear what happen to our economy has happen before but today it is much worst. This special group the Bible tells that they are wise and have a virgin like character which simply mean they have stop sinning. This group is the one that will finish the work of Elohim during the Time of Trouble but there is even more a special time that will happen within the Time of Trouble. We call it Jacob's Trouble because of the suffering they will endure and this is where this apply and here are Scriptures to aid this concept.​

And after these things I looked, and behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony was opened in Heaven. And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and were tied at the breasts with golden bands. And one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of Elohim, who lives forever and ever. And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of Elohim, and from His authority. And no one was able to enter into the temple until the seven plagues of the seven angels were completed. Rev 15:5-8

Alas! For that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. Jer 30:7​

Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of YAHWEH cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. Joe 2:1, 2

The great day of YAHWEH is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of YAHWEH: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, Zep 1:14, 15

Now this concept has come to reality because during this period of time the seven last plagues will be poured out and some of them will affect both the wicked as well as the righteous. The Sun will burn hotter than ever before but Yahweh will protect His people. Shortage of food and drinking water that only their bread and water will be sure. They also will be hunted and thrown into prison as these plagues are being poured out because of the gospel they preached and the souls they will win during the worst time in history. But just as the decree is made by the beast to destroy them this is the day that Yahweh will protect His people. This the day that Saints will hear the time of Yashua's coming and the wicked will not understand. It will be a day of darkness and gloom for the wicked and they will tremble and angels will be sent to strike down the weapons to destroy the saints. Yashua is coming but to show His power the Father has reveal the exact time of His Son coming. The Temple will be open and the ark of Yahweh's covenant revealed. Hail will fall from Heaven which is the last plague and just as He did for Jacob who overcame so will all of the people of Yahweh! This is Jacob's trouble repeated as history always does.

Blessings,
stinsonmarri