Where does the universe end?

[Test All Things2]

Where does the universe end is the question:

Wouldn't the end of something like the universe...be the start of something else?

How can the universe have an end?

I know there are many with much greater schooling and knowledge than me.....

please weigh in, and try to support your theory if it is possible.

Have fun........

 

[juvenissun]

Where does the universe end is the question:

Wouldn't the end of something like the universe...be the start of something else?

How can the universe have an end?

I know there are many with much greater schooling and knowledge than me.....

please weigh in, and try to support your theory if it is possible.

Have fun........

Where?

Is our universe moving toward somewhere?

The end problem is as tough as the origin problem. No wonder people figured out the cyclic process. It saved a lot of trouble.

 

[Test All Things2]

What is the cyclic process? Please elaborate

Also...do you understand the meaning of the symbol you use? Seems odd for a Baptist to use such a symbol as it has some very dark meanings in the things I have seen it referenced to. Things that are not "Christian" at all ??????

 

[AV1611VET]

Where does the universe end is the question:

God started the universe out by creating the earth in the hollow of His hand.

Isaiah 40:12 ¶ Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?

He then fashioned the universe around the earth, then stretched it out like a curtain ...

Psalm 104:2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:

... as the Hubble telescope recently confirmed.

 

[Test All Things2]

Isn't it funny that the Bible gives an accurate description of what we are finding out about the universe? From thousands of years ago no less. What do the scoffers say about this? (here they come)

Amazing? or just the way God works.

 

[Hespera]

What is the cyclic process? Please elaborate

Also...do you understand the meaning of the symbol you use? Seems odd for a Baptist to use such a symbol as it has some very dark meanings in the things I have seen it referenced to. Things that are not "Christian" at all ??????

uh oh who is the true scotsman here?

 

[Hespera]

Isn't it funny that the Bible gives an accurate description of what we are finding out about the universe? From thousands of years ago no less. What do the scoffers say about this? (here they come)

Amazing? or just the way God works.

What I think is funny is that although science, and common sense for that matter show us that the bible is anything but accurate when it talks of the 6 day creation and the flood, the literalists just go right on believing it.

Believing as they seem to in their own inerrancy.

Educated christians know of course that belief in god does not require that the brain be turned off.

And they would probably not care to be called "scoffers' by those who arent educated enough to clean their table at Arbys let alone carry on an informed discussion of things like say, geology or theology for that matter.

But hey hold high the shield of faith and let nothing past, ye who are already all wise and inerrant.

 

[Cabal]

uh oh who is the true scotsman here?

The ugly spiritual side of "test all things", it seems - Christian McCarthyism.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Where does the universe end is the question:

Wouldn't the end of something like the universe...be the start of something else?

How can the universe have an end?

I know there are many with much greater schooling and knowledge than me.....

please weigh in, and try to support your theory if it is possible.

Have fun........

The general consensus in science is, we don't know what the edge of the unvierse is like, or even if it has one at all. Some say the universe is open: you can, in principle, keep travelling in the same direction forever. Some say it is close: if you travelled in one direction forever, you'd end up back where you started, like a loop. Some say the universe is a well-defined bubble of spacetime, and the edge would be a hard-and-fast barrier.

But honestly, we don't know.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Isn't it funny that the Bible gives an accurate description of what we are finding out about the universe? From thousands of years ago no less. What do the scoffers say about this? (here they come)

Amazing? or just the way God works.

I'd say it's because there are a vast plethora of unrelated works in both the Bible and in science (you don't see quantum mechanics or Euler's theorem in the Bible), and a few scientific ideas sound roughly similar to an obscure verse in the Bible (such as the 'unrolling of the Heavens' verse, which sounds broadly like the Big Bang theory), and as soon as science tells us the universe is 'unfolding', some Biblical literalists point to that one verse and say, "Aha! We knew it all along!".

I don't call it divine prophecy or revelation, I call it cherry-picking and confirmation bias. You see confirmation in your beliefs and jump for joy, ignoring the great many other propositions that don't correlate to some Bible verse or other.

The biggest thing that raises one's eyebrow is the fact that you can do this with any text. There are lists on the internet of works of science fiction that mysteriously and coincidentally got some things right. Star Trek's use of comm-badges is broadly similar to modern mobile phones. Frankenstein's Monster could be seen as a rough analogy to defibrillators, or to the electrical stimulation that reanimates cells that were made from peices of other cells (honestly, it happens).

So the fact that you can do this with any text, be it the Bible, the Qu'ran, or Star Trek, doesn't really bode well for the claim that the Bible is justified by it's prophetic science - not least because no one ever predicted any scientific discovery from the Bible. It's always postdated and retroactive...

 

[Cabal]

I don't call it divine prophecy or revelation, I call it cherry-picking and confirmation bias. You see confirmation in your beliefs and jump for joy, ignoring the great many other propositions that don't correlate to some Bible verse or other.

Conversely, they also ignore the many predictions made using Bible verses before science came along and showed that they weren't the case.

 

[Test All Things2]

Let's keep going about the universe: and the edge or end...........

I believe God did this on purpose........to show us there is something or someone far superior.

There will never be a concrete answer for us that could be proven in any fashion....other than asking God himself. In my belief I will be able to do that someday, and the God I believe in wants all his children there with him (gathered around his throne).

Looking up to the sky brings my perspective where it belongs. Realizing I and every other human had nothing to do with the creation of the heavens and the earth, and there is definetely some greater being (Who is of Course God) who is responsible for it.

Logically how can the universe end? Everything just stops....no particles or molecules...electrons or protons....a black vacuum? what is this "nothingness composed of" how can it occupy or not occupy space or dimension?

 

[Hespera]

Let's keep going about the universe: and the edge or end...........

I believe God did this on purpose........to show us there is something or someone far superior.

There will never be a concrete answer for us that could be proven in any fashion....other than asking God himself. In my belief I will be able to do that someday, and the God I believe in wants all his children there with him (gathered around his throne).

Looking up to the sky brings my perspective where it belongs. Realizing I and every other human had nothing to do with the creation of the heavens and the earth, and there is definetely some greater being (Who is of Course God) who is responsible for it.

Logically how can the universe end? Everything just stops....no particles or molecules...electrons or protons....a black vacuum? what is this "nothingness composed of" how can it occupy or not occupy space or dimension?

Looking up to the sky brings my perspective where it belongs

You know, to me anyway, this is really totally backwards.

To me, 'god" is purely and exclusively a human construct, something we thought up.

Looking up at the sky and contemplating this imaginary god is really just thinking about ones self.

Thats how i see it

 

[Naraoia]

If the nature of "nothing" interests you, the second part of this might be worth watching (actually, both parts are worth watching, and they are ultimately connected). "Nothing" is a weird and interesting "thing" indeed.

(There's also The Book of Nothing, but IIRC I found that one hard to follow in places. I read it years ago, though.)

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Let's keep going about the universe: and the edge or end...........

I believe God did this on purpose........to show us there is something or someone far superior.

You believe God did this on purpose... did what, exactly?

There will never be a concrete answer for us that could be proven in any fashion....

What makes you think that? The ancient peoples looking at thunder and lightening and volcanoes and earthquakes - do you think they could fathom even the possibility of a natural explanation? Science has the uncanny ability to explain the seemingly unexplainable.

other than asking God himself. In my belief I will be able to do that someday, and the God I believe in wants all his children there with him (gathered around his throne).

Sadly, God is seemingly incapable of allowing non-Christians into Heaven, and has the only option of allowing them to roast in Hell for all eternity. Call me crazy, but a being like that isn't something I'd like to meet any time soon.

Looking up to the sky brings my perspective where it belongs. Realizing I and every other human had nothing to do with the creation of the heavens and the earth, and there is definetely some greater being (Who is of Course God) who is responsible for it.

You make two assumptions here - first, the grandeur of the universe is by no means proof of anything, let alone God. Second, even if the universe did somehow prove there was "some greater being", why would you conclude it was your God? It could just as easily be Allah, or Shiva, or Brahman, or any of the other deities humans have dreamed up to explain the unexplainable.

Logically how can the universe end? Everything just stops....no particles or molecules...electrons or protons....a black vacuum? what is this "nothingness composed of" how can it occupy or not occupy space or dimension?

Nothingness by definition is not composed of anything, that's what it's called, 'nothingness'. Asking what's outside the universe is like asking what's outside the the North Pole, or when February 30th is - the question makes no sense. The universe simply is, that's all we know, and it could have a physical barrier at its edge. Or, it could have some more exotic topology, like closed loops or some such.

So what's outside the universe? Nobody knows. And no, that's not an excuse to say, "Aha! Therefore, God must exist!".

 

[juvenissun]

What is the cyclic process? Please elaborate

Also...do you understand the meaning of the symbol you use? Seems odd for a Baptist to use such a symbol as it has some very dark meanings in the things I have seen it referenced to. Things that are not "Christian" at all ??????

Cyclic process means things go in cycles. Therefore, the system has no beginning and no end. Physically, there are a lot of systems behave that way. Philosophically, Hinduism is an obvious example. So if you asked them your question, they would say that there is no end to the universe, because it will cycle back.

The Ying-Yang logo is the symbol from Daoism (similar to the cross for Christianity). It represents a thought about origin and the dynamics of changing. It is scientific and philosophical. And believe it or not, for the most part, it fits Christianity very well. The only thing which doesn't fit is that it also suggests an endless cyclic process.

 

[AV1611VET]

Cyclic process means things go in cycles. Therefore, the system has no beginning and no end. Physically, there are a lot of systems behave that way. Philosophically, Hinduism is an obvious example. So if you asked them your question, they would say that there is no end to the universe, because it will cycle back.

The Ying-Yang logo is the symbol from Daoism (similar to the cross for Christianity). It represents a thought about origin and the dynamics of changing. It is scientific and philosophical. And believe it or not, for the most part, it fits Christianity very well. The only thing which doesn't fit is that it also suggests an endless cyclic process.

In Yin-Yang philosophy, good and evil coexist in the universe in harmony; whereas in Truth, good overcomes evil with love.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Conversely, they also ignore the many predictions made using Bible verses before science came along and showed that they weren't the case.

Cherry picking at its finest

It's interesting how they ignore the talking donkey, but are happy to say that the Bible supports modern science...

 

[AV1611VET]

It's interesting how they ignore the talking donkey, but are happy to say that the Bible supports modern science...

So?

If the talking donkey story wasn't in the Bible, then you could say the Jonah story, or Jesus walking on water, etc.

And comparing miracles to science is like comparing the Knighted Queen to Standard Chess.

 

[Cabal]

So?

If the talking donkey story wasn't in the Bible, then you could say the Jonah story, or Jesus walking on water, etc.

Yes, those are all as unlikely. Well spotted.